Surprising lack of knowledge among theists.

[Magic Man]

Faith and belief are often maligned by those who use it. Some perceive it as some sort of weakness ONLY BECAUSE they just can't see how much they rely on both. NO ONE is superior by their belief or disbelief in a God (even if it's Thor).

This is a constant theme with you. I never said I, or anyone else, was superior due to a disbelief in God. That is completely irrelevant, but you see it in everything an atheist says that is contrary to your thinking. I have completely agreed many times with everything you just said. BUT atheism is still not a belief system, it is merely a lack of one particular belief. That's my only point. I know you take that as "Atheism is better than theism", but for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

 

[Willamena]

Faith and belief are often maligned by those who use it. Some perceive it as some sort of weakness ONLY BECAUSE they just can't see how much they rely on both.

That's true, but of individuals, not of atheists in general (or particular).

 

[Scuba Pete]

BUT atheism is still not a belief system, it is merely a lack of one particular belief.

We disagree here. It's just as much of a belief system as is theism. i don't see this statement as suggesting superiority, but there are many statements made by both theist and atheist alike which do. Vanity is not a function of what you believe as much as it is a function of our humanity. That being said, it's good to point it out and have it pointed out to you. Those who are insecure with change may think different, but it appears that my vanity manifests itself differently.

BTW, a sure sign of vanity is your inability to see it in yourself.

 

[Scuba Pete]

That's true, but of individuals, not of atheists in general (or particular).

Frubals on your head! SP Exactly!!! It's a function of our humanity and not our belief systems.

 

[Willamena]

We disagree here. It's just as much of a belief system as is theism. i don't see this statement as suggesting superiority, but there are many statements made by both theist and atheist alike which do. Vanity is not a function of what you believe as much as it is a function of our humanity. That being said, it's good to point it out and have it pointed out to you. Those who are insecure with change may think different, but it appears that my vanity manifests itself differently.

BTW, a sure sign of vanity is your inability to see it in yourself.

You don't believe in "Thor" because you have placed belief in God. Your belief system includes God. The atheist doesn't believe in "God" because the have placed their belief elsewhere. Any "belief system" they have is about other things, not God, so what is the grounds for suggesting that "atheism" is the belief system itself?

BTW, I'd give you frubals for the irony in your last statement, but I'm fresh out.

 

[Magic Man]

We disagree here. It's just as much of a belief system as is theism. i don't see this statement as suggesting superiority, but there are many statements made by both theist and atheist alike which do. Vanity is not a function of what you believe as much as it is a function of our humanity. That being said, it's good to point it out and have it pointed out to you. Those who are insecure with change may think different, but it appears that my vanity manifests itself differently.

BTW, a sure sign of vanity is your inability to see it in yourself.

Would you please stop implying that I'm vain? It's getting old. Sure, there are some ways that I am, but I can see it, and, if it gets out of hand, I realize it. This has nothing to do with vanity.

Please tell me your definition of "belief system" and why atheism fits that description. That would clear things up a bit. I say it's not a belief system because it only encompasses a lack of a certain belief, and doesn't entail any other beliefs necessarily.

 

[Magic Man]

You don't believe in "Thor" because you have placed belief in God. Your belief system includes God. The atheist doesn't believe in "God" because the have placed their belief elsewhere. Any "belief system" they have is about other things, not God, so what is the grounds for suggesting that "atheism" is the belief system itself?

BTW, I'd give you frubals for the irony in your last statement, but I'm fresh out.

And I'd give you frubals, but I have to spread them around first. Darn you for posting so many good posts so quickly!

 

[Storm]

Reposting because I think it got lost in the dread Dawkins debate:

Leaving the question of Dawkins' credibility aside....

Even if I accepted this at face value, which I don't, I wouldn't accept it as being reflective of actual Christians. That is to say, the majority of US "Christians" in my experience have never really given it much thought. They're not really believers, they're just going with what they were taught, because they don't really care one way or another. They call themselves Christian more out of habit than conviction.

Now, that could easily be taken the wrong way, so let me make it clear that it's not a value judgement. I'm not saying that they're "not True Christians" because they're theologically ignorant. I'm pointing out that most people, again imx, are apathetic. Not everyone has an interest in God, just we don't all have an interest in poetry, or music, or sports. And that's fine.

But unlike poetry, music, or sports, there is a cultural expectation of some theological label as part of one's identity. This leads the people who don't care to just accept the religious identity they were raised to, which is overwhelmingly Christian in the US.

Because most theologically apathetic people in the US accept the label of "Christian" polls such as the one cited will find disproportionate numbers of theologically ignorant "Christians."

 

[Magic Man]

I agree on all accounts, Storm. My thing is then that, if someone calls himself a football fan, but doesn't know who won the Superbowl last year, I question why they would call themselves such.

 

[Storm]

I'm a bit more sympathetic. If your whole family is football fans, and you watch it with them whenever you're at their house, it gets a bit fuzzier.

Besides, as noted in the previous post, there's not a huge cultural pressure to identify yourself as SOME kind of sports fan. You can say "I don't like sports" without people taking it as an invitation to win you over to their team.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm a bit more sympathetic. If you're whole family is football fans, and you watch it with them whenever you're at their house, it gets a bit fuzzier.

Besides, as noted in the previous post, there's not a huge cultural pressure to identify yourself as SOME kind of sports fan. You can say "I don't like sports" without people taking it as an invitation to win you over to their team.

I understand. It's not that I hold it against those Christians, I just find it amusing. In the football example, it seems to me a way of trying to impress people or fit in, which is what it seems like in the religious sense, too, many times.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I agree on all accounts, Storm. My thing is then that, if someone calls himself a football fan, but doesn't know who won the Superbowl last year, I question why they would call themselves such.

I can't tell you who won the Superbowl, but I can tell you who won the college bowl series. Does that make me less of a football fan because I don't agree with you on what should be important to me? Probably not.

 

[Sunstone]

There was a book that came out a couple of years ago titled "Religious Literacy" by Stephen Prothero. It highlights American's lack of knowledge of Christianity despite the fact that it is the country's dominant religion. The book reveals that only one-half of adult Americans can cite one of the four Gospels. Also, 10% of adults believe that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. Therefore, I don't find Dawkins' study to be too far from the truth.

Good point! I've heard of that book, and have read some reviews of it that mentioned those stats. I seem to recall that some of them came from the Barna Group.

 

[Magic Man]

I can't tell you who won the Superbowl, but I can tell you who won the college bowl series. Does that make me less of a football fan because I don't agree with you on what should be important to me? Probably not.

All right, I guess for you I need to be specific. "Professional football". I forgot you were around.

 

[Scuba Pete]

All right, I guess for you I need to be specific. "Professional football". I forgot you were around.

The point is... you don't need to know tidily about Moses or Noah's Ark to live a Christian life. Trying to impose YOUR STANDARDS on someone else's belief system is flawed at best and the motivation to do so is highly suspect.

Do you need to fully understand evolution to be an atheist? Yeah, it's just that stupid.

 

[Mister Emu]

I can't tell you who won the Superbowl, but I can tell you who won the college bowl series. Does that make me less of a football fan because I don't agree with you on what should be important to me? Probably not

Amen, just about the only thing I can tell you about Pro-Football is who won the Super bowl, but I can go off on College Football This doesn't even bring in people to whom football would refer to American soccer, a completely different game...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

That Dawkin's deductions are full of crap and full of bias. Did he provide a link to this study? There was a study that %75 of all statistics are made up... including this one.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. -Mark Twain

 

[sandy whitelinger]

There's alot of people who call themselves Christian who have never read the bible and dont go to church. I'm an atheist and I've never read one of Dawkins, Dennets, or Hitchens books so I guess I'm in the same boat.

This is why it's better to be an atheist...you are not required to know anything.

 

[Magic Man]

The point is... you don't need to know tidily about Moses or Noah's Ark to live a Christian life. Trying to impose YOUR STANDARDS on someone else's belief system is flawed at best and the motivation to do so is highly suspect.

I never said they did. I do however find it amusing when I know more about a subject than a person who who lives in that subject. I have already stated that Christians who don't follow the Bible exactly and don't follow the traditional Christianity are perfectly fine to me, like stephenw. It's the people who claim they're Christian because they think it makes them better people, and go to church thinking that's all they have to do, who amuse me when they don't know simple things about it.

Do you need to fully understand evolution to be an atheist? Yeah, it's just that stupid.

This just shows your ignorance and bias towards atheism. Evolution and atheism have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Scuba Pete]

but I can go off on College Football

Of course, those who are REALLY faithful to college football only root for the

unk: GATORS!!! unk:
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