Switzerland my allow incest between siblings, and parent and adult children

[Magic Man]

Nonsense...I mention interbreeding at least a dozen times.

And that has been shown to be nonsense. Besides, the main problem with that is that we're not legislating against incestuous couple having children, which would be a much more direct way of dealing with that perceived problem.

 

[Magic Man]

Really.

I see.

I would like to know what is so morally outrageous about Luciferianism...as yet you havent said why... you have just repeated yourself.
Insisting it is degenerate weird and many times disgusting.

Why?

Back up your mouth please if you have any honour.

I understand the difference between what is real and what is pure fantasy...do you?

I think not.

You're not reading what I'm saying. I'm saying many people think your religion is morally reprehensible and disgusting. I don't. You're using the fact that you think incest is disgusting as a reason for it to be banned. Some people feel the same way about your religion. So, then, why shouldn't they ban your religion?

See? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your religion, just that others perceive there to be something wrong with it.

 

[Comicaze247]

I didnt say incest causes 'it' I said it increases the risks.
And yes I have already answered the secon part repeatedly...I do think it irresponsible for people with hereditary illnesses to reproduce with each other without medical assistance and screening.

Fair enough.

No KNOWN/ family history of genetic defects..either way I don't think such a trend is healthy to encourage pal.

Who said I was encouraging it?

Its recessive genes that carry genetic disorders undetected and unexpressed...the word recessive does not mean defected.

Exactly my point.

I know there would be psychological effects...

''A study of victims of father–daughter incest in the 1970s showed that there were "common features" within families before the occurrence of incest: estrangement between the mother and the daughter, extreme paternal dominance, the mother's inability to fulfill her traditional parental role, and reassignment of some of the mother's major family responsibility to the daughter. Oldest and only daughters were more likely to be the victims of incest. It was also stated that the incest experience was psychologically harmful to the woman in later life, frequently leading to feelings of low self-esteem, unhealthy sexual activity, contempt for other women, and other emotional problems.[34][clarification needed (needs a better source)]
Adults who as children were incestuously victimized by adults often suffer from low self-esteem, difficulties in interpersonal relationships, and sexual dysfunction, and are at an extremely high risk of many mental disorders, including depression, anxiety, phobic avoidance reactions, somatoform disorder, substance abuse, borderline personality disorder, and complex post-traumatic stress disorder''

But of course you will pretend all incest is entirely mutually reciprocated.

Did you read what I was responding to? You were referring to sibling incestuous relationships, NOT father-daughter ones. Whether or not you chose to avoid that on purpose, I can't know.
I then asked, "Is this a close-age sibling relationship you're considering, or a large age gap?"
Chose to ignore that, I see. So again, I say abuse wouldn't have much to do with sibling incest unless one was forcing themselves upon the other, which would be a different case entirely.

Dont know what you are talking about...no one has perfect genes.

Hence the quotes and why it's called a scenario.

Do not presume to know what my faith or belief leads me to believe...you are very unlikely to be anywhere close...nor should they tolerate pedophilia..although I am certain some here might disagree with that too...

Do you read? I already said it had nothing to do with your beliefs. And I question why you assume I was targetting them. You must feel very insecure about them to feel as though I'm attacking them twice when I've said I wasn't.
Allow me to repeat, since you seem to need it: I was referring to this statement:
and dont you ever tell me what I should or should not think...you are no one.[/quote] And yet you're telling people that something shouldn't be tolerated.
And where did pedophilia come in?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

And that has been shown to be nonsense. Besides, the main problem with that is that we're not legislating against incestuous couple having children, which would be a much more direct way of dealing with that perceived problem.

It has not been shown to be nonsense...interbreeding is a scientific fact...it increases the likelihood of passing deletrious and dysfunctional genes..but then what do you care about fact?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

You're not reading what I'm saying. I'm saying many people think your religion is morally reprehensible and disgusting. I don't. You're using the fact that you think incest is disgusting as a reason for it to be banned. Some people feel the same way about your religion. So, then, why shouldn't they ban your religion?

See? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your religion, just that others perceive there to be something wrong with it.

Incest is disgusting like bestiality is (waiting for someone to say its ok to shag pigs) but thats not the only kind of reason I want it to stay banned..there are better practical realistic reasons you cannot understand or even accept...even though the animal kingdom in general avoids incest if possible...because it is unhealthy...it is not conducive to a healthy gene pool...it is not evolutionary viable.

You are the first person I have ever met (other than a foaming christian fundy) who seems to think that my religion is morally reprehensible...compared I guess to other religions.

The only people who might object to my religion are ignorant people who do not understand what Luciferianism is all about or perhaps see my religion as an enemy faith to theirs.

Perhaps you could explain what kind of immoral and disgusting behaviour we luciferians get up to?

You have gone this far with your attacks...come on...if you think you are hard enough...explain yourself...provide justification for your comments.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I do not understand why anyone would want to legalise incest.
I can only conclude that they are psychologically unhinged.
The lengthy list of risks and problems associated with incest far outweigh any 'benefits' whatever they might be...so basically the idea of legalising incest is utterly moronic.
People who commit incest ARE commiting a crime in this country, punishable by imprisonment and if I had my way I would make parent/child incest a capital offence for the parent...such animals are not fit to exist.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Do you read? I already said it had nothing to do with your beliefs. And I question why you assume I was targetting them. You must feel very insecure about them to feel as though I'm attacking them twice when I've said I wasn't.
Allow me to repeat, since you seem to need it: I was referring to this statement:
and dont you ever tell me what I should or should not think...you are no one.And yet you're telling people that something shouldn't be tolerated.
And where did pedophilia come in?

More assumptions...insecure?

Not me...I don't know anyone more self confident than myself...I just respond to all overt and insidious attacks in the same way...with fire.

Pedophilia (forms of it at least) I imagine is perfectly fine with certain people on this thread....since they are so keen on incest....liberal thinking is a slippery slope to disorder and ruin, I mention it to see if the whining liberals take the bait.

The statement I make means do not presume to know my beliefs because I attach a label to them...people should not have to tolerate what is injurious and base....ie incest.

I am going to shutup now before I say something I may later on regret...basically incest is sick because it is (if you cant see why, you never will & God help you) and should remain illegal , anyone who thinks otherwise I would not trust as far as I could throw them...in fact I would not associate with someone who had that kind of mindscape...such people are to me utterly polarised to my world view...and as far as I am concerned an enemy of man to be suppressed and silenced at every opportunity.
I absolutely despise dogooder left wing hand wringing libertine attitudes....grrr...the type of people who spout them...I keep well away from.

Rant over.

 

[Magic Man]

It has not been shown to be nonsense...interbreeding is a scientific fact...it increases the likelihood of passing deletrious and dysfunctional genes..but then what do you care about fact?

OK, well, it's hard to have a debate when you're not going to read the refutations of your points. Others here have already shown that it's not incest that causes deformities, but shared gene problems, which can be true of unrelated people. But then again, I care about facts, which is why I'm hoping you'll see that your point has been shown to be nonsense.

 

[Magic Man]

Incest is disgusting like bestiality is (waiting for someone to say its ok to shag pigs) but thats not the only kind of reason I want it to stay banned..there are better practical realistic reasons you cannot understand or even accept...even though the animal kingdom in general avoids incest if possible...because it is unhealthy...it is not conducive to a healthy gene pool...it is not evolutionary viable.

No, it's not disgusting like bestiality. Maybe to you it is, but not objectively. There are no better practical reasons other than the psychological effects it can have. As I've said, that is a concern. But that's a far cry from your attitude here, which is more like "It's disgusting, and you're disgusting for liking it". I quoted one of your posts before which actually gave a reasonable response, followed by an unreasonable one. I agree with the reasonable part, as I have all along.

As far as the genetic part, as has been shown incest does not necessarily create any genetic problems. Plus, you're acting like we're saying everyone should engage in incest. We're not. We're saying there's nothing that should make it illegal in most cases. Making it legal in most cases isn't going to result in lots of people doing it and having all sorts of genetic problems.

You are the first person I have ever met (other than a foaming christian fundy) who seems to think that my religion is morally reprehensible...compared I guess to other religions.

The only people who might object to my religion are ignorant people who do not understand what Luciferianism is all about or perhaps see my religion as an enemy faith to theirs.

Perhaps you could explain what kind of immoral and disgusting behaviour we luciferians get up to?

You have gone this far with your attacks...come on...if you think you are hard enough...explain yourself...provide justification for your comments.

What is this silly macho attitude? Can you not just debate things without challenging someone as if we're about to fight outside of a club?

And is it that you can't understand what I'm saying or that you just refuse to? I'm not sure how to make it clearer. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Luciferianism. What I'm saying is that not everyone shares my openness to the religion. Many people find your religion disgusting and morally reprehensible. I'm not one of those people. The point is that you argue against incest being legal based on the fact that you find it disgusting. Those others that find your religion disgusting could use the same argument to ban your religion. Why do you think their argument doesn't hold water, but yours does? Now, if you'll read carefully (or not even that carefully), you'll see that nowhere in there did I say that your religion actually is disgusting, just that many people find it so. Please don't respond again asking why I find your religion disgusting.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

OK, well, it's hard to have a debate when you're not going to read the refutations of your points. Others here have already shown that it's not incest that causes deformities, but shared gene problems, which can be true of unrelated people. But then again, I care about facts, which is why I'm hoping you'll see that your point has been shown to be nonsense.

You are obviously having difficulty with the concept that incestuous reproduction increases the risk of imparting genetic disorders...I dont find that surprising really.

Sigh...I shall print out wiki for you once again...

''Inbreeding is the reproduction from the mating of two genetically related parents, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive or deleterious traits. This generally leads to a decreased fitness of a population, which is called inbreeding depression. Deleterious alleles causing inbreeding depression can subsequently be removed through culling, which is also known as genetic purging.''

wiki - inbreeding

There you go mball...

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Now, if you'll read carefully (or not even that carefully), you'll see that nowhere in there did I say that your religion actually is disgusting, just that many people find it so. Please don't respond again asking why I find your religion disgusting.

There is nothing further I wish to discuss with you...period.

Please do not reply to me...if you cannot explain why people would find my religion morally disgusting...then there is no need for further discourse between us.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Also of course mball...my religion doesnt spawn genetic inbreds...however immoral you think others see it...even though you cannot even show that they do...you assume some do.

Your comparison..my faith and incest is illogical in extremis.

They are nothing like each other....you may as well compare cheese with dinosaurs.

All you can do is justify why my religion should be banned...you have to show it damages society like incest does...in order to make my hatred of incest seem hypocritical...and you cannot.

 

[Magic Man]

I do not understand why anyone would want to legalise incest.
I can only conclude that they are psychologically unhinged.

Maybe you haven't been listening. Actually, I know you haven't been.

There is no good legal objection to incest in most cases. It should be taken on a case-by-case basis. If there's reason to believe there is some harm being done psychologically or otherwise, then it should be illegal. And just claiming that your opponents must be unhinged isn't a good way to make a case.

The lengthy list of risks and problems associated with incest far outweigh any 'benefits' whatever they might be...so basically the idea of legalising incest is utterly moronic.
People who commit incest ARE commiting a crime in this country, punishable by imprisonment and if I had my way I would make parent/child incest a capital offence for the parent...such animals are not fit to exist.

No, the idea of legalizing incest is not moronic. The "risks" don't outweigh the "benefits". The benefit is for people to have the freedom they're supposed to. Only in some cases is there real risk of problems. Those cases might deserve some legal consideration, but not incest in general.

 

[Magic Man]

You are obviously having difficulty with the concept that incestuous reproduction increases the risk of imparting genetic disorders...I dont find that surprising really.

Sigh...I shall print out wiki for you once again...

''Inbreeding is the reproduction from the mating of two genetically related parents, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive or deleterious traits. This generally leads to a decreased fitness of a population, which is called inbreeding depression. Deleterious alleles causing inbreeding depression can subsequently be removed through culling, which is also known as genetic purging.''

wiki - inbreeding

There you go mball...

Yup, there you go.

 

[Blackheart]

How many of you would relish the notion of having your mom or dad hitting on you? Can you imagine a society where your parents are happy to have you hitting on them? This is the most insane debate I have ever heard!

"dear daughter I have always loved you so much and I know you love me too. I have decided that on your 18th birthday I will pay for us to spend the night in a room in a nice hotel. Just the two of us. Love Dad xxx"

If that happens just once then I know we have reached the end of the line.

 

[Magic Man]

There is nothing further I wish to discuss with you...period.

Please do not reply to me...if you cannot explain why people would find my religion morally disgusting...then there is no need for further discourse between us.

You're right that there's no need for further discourse between us. I'd say there's no need for further discourse between you and anyone. For that to be productive, you'd have to actually listen to what they're saying. I'll try one last time.

I don't have to explain why people might find your religion morally disgusting. For one, the fact that some people do is sufficient for my point. For another, you haven't provided a reason why incest is morally disgusting.

As you've even noted, some people find your religion disgusting. Why? Who cares? It doesn't matter whether they're right or not. You and I know they're not, but that's not the point. The point is something being disgusting to some people is not a good reason for it to be banned.

 

[Magic Man]

Also of course mball...my religion doesnt spawn genetic inbreds...however immoral you think others see it...even though you cannot even show that they do...you assume some do.

Your comparison..my faith and incest is illogical in extremis.

They are nothing like each other....you may as well compare cheese with dinosaurs.

All you can do is justify why my religion should be banned...you have to show it damages society like incest does...in order to make my hatred of incest seem hypocritical...and you cannot.

First, are you actually denying that some people see your religion as disgusting? I assumed that was a given.

My whole point was that you've been using the argument that incest should be banned because it's disgusting in your opinion.

Incest doesn't damage society. But you're welcome to try to explain why you think it does.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

No, the idea of legalizing incest is not moronic. The "risks" don't outweigh the "benefits". The benefit is for people to have the freedom they're supposed to. Only in some cases is there real risk of problems. Those cases might deserve some legal consideration, but not incest in general.

There are no benefits in incest...who says people are supposed to have freedoms?

Freedom to do what exactly?

LOL

Dont make me puke...more liberalist hand wringing...

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Yup, there you go.

No it was for your benefit...you are the one who thinks inbreeding is absolutely ok.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

You're right that there's no need for further discourse between us. I'd say there's no need for further discourse between you and anyone. For that to be productive, you'd have to actually listen to what they're saying. I'll try one last time.

I do not make a habit of conversing with people like you.

There is nothing you have to say which deserves rational consideration.

You and people like you are partly why this world is a horrendous place to live in...people who believe in revolting ideals.