Switzerland my allow incest between siblings, and parent and adult children

[Primordial Annihilator]

First, are you actually denying that some people see your religion as disgusting? I assumed that was a given.

My whole point was that you've been using the argument that incest should be banned because it's disgusting in your opinion.

Incest doesn't damage society. But you're welcome to try to explain why you think it does.

I have already explained why incest damages society repeatedly you are just incapable of understanding.

I dont know anyone who has labelled my religion disgusting other than you...but dont worry I wont forget that...I wont forget either that you equate my faith to moral degeneracy.

I am appalled by your opinions...people with your views should be monitored by the state.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are obviously having difficulty with the concept that incestuous reproduction increases the risk of imparting genetic disorders...I dont find that surprising really.

But here's the thing: inbreeding happens even with incest being illegal.

For one thing, not all inbreeding is illegal. AFAIK, you can marry your second cousin just about anywhere. Here in Ontario, some surprising types of marriage are allowed, such as between first cousins or between an aunt/uncle and niece/nephew.

If my quick math after only one coffee is right, the odds of the child of siblings having a dangerous recessive trait is 16 times higher than for the child of first cousins. Yes, the risk is higher for siblings, but it's definitely in the same ballpark.

Also, the other thing to remember is that incest laws don't stop all inbreeding. The question isn't one of stopping inbreeding or incest altogether; you can't do that. Even if the sentence for incest was death, it's really a matter of catching them in the act if you're going to prove it. Any child that mysteriously appears can be explained away as the result of a one-night stand or something like that. It's not just a question of whether you want to stop incest; it's a question of whether the government's capable of stopping it.

There's no point in outlawing something if you can't deter it anyhow. Maybe these laws don't so much affect whether incest will occur, but whether incestuous couples will be secretive or open about it.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

How many of you would relish the notion of having your mom or dad hitting on you? Can you imagine a society where your parents are happy to have you hitting on them? This is the most insane debate I have ever heard!

"dear daughter I have always loved you so much and I know you love me too. I have decided that on your 18th birthday I will pay for us to spend the night in a room in a nice hotel. Just the two of us. Love Dad xxx"

If that happens just once then I know we have reached the end of the line.

Some like mball would like incest to be accepted as part of normal social behaviour...people like him would encourage parents to abuse their children sexually by saying incest is ok.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

There's no point in outlawing something if you can't deter it anyhow. Maybe these laws don't so much affect whether incest will occur, but whether incestuous couples will be secretive or open about it.

That is hardly relevant...people try to avoid detection in all kinds of crime...we can execute an incestuous parent having relations with their children...as an example to the others...I would happily pull the trap door lever...death to all abusers and perverts.

A simple genetic test would establish if an incestuous birth has taken place or not.

 

[McBell]

Some like mball would like incest to be accepted as part of normal social behaviour...people like him would encourage parents to abuse their children sexually by saying incest is ok.

You are letting your passion aver rule your reason.

mball never made any such claims.

 

[McBell]

That is hardly relevant...people try to avoid detection in all kinds of crime...we can execute an incestuous parent having relations with their children...as an example to the others...I would happily pull the trap door lever...death to all abusers and perverts.

Perversity is in the eyes of the perceiver, not in what is being perceived.
As it has already been pointed out to you, being disgusting is not legal grounds to ban it.

A simple genetic test would establish if an incestuous birth has taken place or not.

Really?
To what extent?
Will a DNA test determine whether it is a legal 'incestuous' relation or just that it was a relative?
I mean, can it be determined, through DNA testing, that it was a direct sibling as opposed to a second cousin?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

You are letting your passion aver rule your reason.

mball never made any such claims.

Its a natural consequence of accepting incest....whether he claims it or not.

 

[McBell]

Its a natural consequence of accepting incest....whether he claims it or not.

No it isn't.
You are merely letting your feeling of disgust dictate your response.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Perversity is in the eyes of the perceiver, not in what is being perceived.
As it has already been pointed out to you, being disgusting is not legal grounds to ban it.

I did not say it should be banned on grounds of being disgusting...but disgusting it remains.

Really?
To what extent?
Will a DNA test determine whether it is a legal 'incestuous' relation or just that it was a relative?
I mean, can it be determined, through DNA testing, that it was a direct sibling as opposed to a second cousin?

Yes of course it can...if we have peoples DNA profiles.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

No it isn't.
You are merely letting your feeling of disgust dictate your response.

I deny that...I am quite certain legalizing incest will lead directly to an increase in child abuse.

 

[McBell]

I did not say it should be banned on grounds of being disgusting...but disgusting it remains.

Then on what grounds should it be banned?
And no, I have not seen you present anything that would dictate a generalized ban on it.

Yes of course it can...if we have peoples DNA profiles.

So what, now every child that is suspect is to be tested?
Or perhaps we should just test every child at birth.

And what should the punishment be for this disgusting practice?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is hardly relevant...

No, it's entirely relevant. Ineffective law is bad law.

A simple genetic test would establish if an incestuous birth has taken place or not.

And without probable cause to demand a test, you won't have it.

If your plan involves treating every parent of a child with a birth defect as a potential criminal, then I think it's going to have serious problems... as well as substantial societal harm of its own.

 

[McBell]

I deny that...I am quite certain legalizing incest will lead directly to an increase in child abuse.

Based upon what?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Based upon what?

Reason.

If incest is legal then that will make prosecuting child abusers even more difficult...

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Then on what grounds should it be banned?
And no, I have not seen you present anything that would dictate a generalized ban on it.

Its called inbreeding...lol

T
And what should the punishment be for this disgusting practice?

For the parent...death of course.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes of course it can...if we have peoples DNA profiles.

You're free to give the government samples of your DNA if you want, but there's no freakin' way I want them to have my genome on file "just in case".

If incest is legal then that will make prosecuting child abusers even more difficult...

How so?

The type of incest we're talking about here (i.e. between adults) isn't child abuse itself, since no children are involved. Are you talking about their offspring? I really don't see your reasoning here.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

No, it's entirely relevant. Ineffective law is bad law.


And without probable cause to demand a test, you won't have it.

I would prefer for all citizens to have their DNA profiled...the law must be obeyed...even if people dont like it.

If your plan involves treating every parent of a child with a birth defect as a potential criminal, then I think it's going to have serious problems... as well as substantial societal harm of its own.

Only if someone reports to the police that they suspect incest has occured...then we can take action.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

You're free to give the government samples of your DNA if you want, but there's no freakin' way I want them to have my genome on file "just in case".

All DNA should be profiled to assist in reducing criminality.

The type of incest we're talking about here (i.e. between adults) isn't child abuse itself, since no children are involved. Are you talking about their offspring? I really don't see your reasoning here.

No we well I was talking about incest generally including child parent incest...which is my main concern.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Its called inbreeding...lol

But that doesn't work.

Someone may want to check my math, but I believe that the odds of a birth defect are exactly the same for the child of two half-siblings as it would be for the child of two full first cousins... yet one relationship is criminal and the other is perfectly legal in many places.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

But that doesn't work.

Someone may want to check my math, but I believe that the odds of a birth defect are exactly the same for the child of two half-siblings as it would be for the child of two full first cousins... yet one relationship is criminal and the other is perfectly legal in many places.

Two half siblings?

LOL

What about two full blood siblings?

Cousins should not marry either..that is borderline incest.