Tea Party Convention

[Lindsey-Loo]

The fact that such a large amount of people have no shame when it comes to publicly displaying their ignorance and hypocrisy scares me, too.

Do you care to elaborate? I hardly think that everyone who attends a Tea Party convention is ignorant, though there are certainly some ignorant people there, like at every gathering. It's not a good idea to stereotype the whole group.

 

[Kathryn]

Lindsey, personally I don't mind if people insist on minimizing or ridiculing the Tea Party Movement. I prefer to be underestimated. In fact, it can really come in handy, especially during elections.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You think any organized group of people who hope to see major changes in the existing structure does not pose a threat to "the system"?

Are they organized?

I don't mean the fact that they can figure out how to gather in the same place at the same time; I mean that, AFAICT, there's no coherent message about what the purpose is for these events beyond just "Obama sucks".

I guess what I'm getting at is this: exactly what do these Tea Party people hope to get out of their participation in these events? What would have to happen for the Tea Party people to say that their efforts had ended in success?

And you honestly think that big-government politicians aren't scared of any threat to their system? The reason Washington is ignoring them is because they're terrified that the rest of America will follow.

Are you sure?

The impression I get (admittedly as an outside observer) is that these Tea Parties were created by and sustained by Fox News, and the whole Tea Party thing isn't going to readily spread beyond their fan base.

 

[Darkness]

I've attended two "Tea Party" gatherings. The first was on July 4 and it was very dynamic - and also very typical of political protests - lots of interesting people from all walks of life, some weirdos, some rednecks, some intellectuals, some suits, some dreds, some independent thinkers, housewives, trash collectors, office managers, students, retirees, teens, thirty-somethings pushing strollers - you name it, they were there. The atmosphere was positive, respectful, but a little chaotic. People seemed unsure of themselves. The courthouse square in my midsize town was jam packed. The security officers were in a jovial mood. There was no sign of any counter demonstrators. It felt like a big high school pep rally, but with a serious undertone to it.

The second event was a few months later. It was as large as the first one and more orderly. The same variety of people, but fewer oddballs. People were more serious - and more frustrated. There was definitely more organization. Though the Republican Party was out in full force, I met a lot more people who were ADAMANT that they were independent voters and were not aligning themselves with any one particular party. Generally speaking, the second set of people seemed more knowledgeable about history, legal issues, and the basics of sound economics.

The tea party is dangerous because they think what President Obama is doing is Communist. When a moderately liberal policy of raising the top marginal tax rate to what is was in the Clinton era is compared Nazi Germany, I get worried. Perhaps, I have underestimated just how radically right the United States is.

 

[Kathryn]

I get worried when I realize that the social security system I've been paying into for thirty years for my retirement is in the red and getting redder. I get worried when I make WAY under $250,000 a year and I work till well into April before I start working for myself (till then, all my earnings go toward taxes). I get worried when our national debt is spiraling out of control but we're handing refund checks out like they were candy.

I'm worried about a lot of things, and Obama is one of them. Bush was another one of them. Most career politicians are among my biggest worries in life, for that matter.

 

[Darkness]

I get worried when I realize that the social security system I've been paying into for thirty years for my retirement is in the red and getting redder.

So, do you want to abolish social security altogether? The line of logic I can never follow is that passing a free-market solution to health care (the Senate bill) is socialism, but if President Obama dares to make cuts in the socialist Medicare budget, he wants old people to die. A part of me wants to see a crazy radical like Sarah Palin get in office, so that once and for all the American people will see the disastrous policies of the Right in all its hideous, bestial potency.

 

[dust1n]

Just an informal poll: Which participants of this thread have actually attended a 'Tea Party" event?

I have.. see earlier post.

 

[dust1n]

You think any organized group of people who hope to see major changes in the existing structure does not pose a threat to "the system"? And you honestly think that big-government politicians aren't scared of any threat to their system? The reason Washington is ignoring them is because they're terrified that the rest of America will follow. It's not about physical actions like violence or strikes. They're scared that America is undergoing a huge shift in thinking. Which we are. I've met everyone from radical Republican nutjobs to moderate Democrats at conventions. People want a real change they can believe in, and as much as Obama's administration likes the word change, they are only interested in it if it fits their own agenda.

There have been **** loads of organized groups of people who hope to see major changes, and a lot of them were physically threatening 'the system'. Big politicians couldn't care less about those peoples, they continue living in fancy houses and never coming in contact with them. The rest of America is not going to follow in a fake grass roots organization to attempt.. lowering taxes.. or whatever they were out there for. America is constantly undergoing a huge shift of thinking, the majority of them away from conservatism and right-wing politics.

Threatening to vote conservative is not a threat to the system. That is a play within the system. Republicans will offer just as much change as Obama did, but nothing fundamentally will change from it, maybe the illegalization of abortion or gay marriage, but the war will continue as is, trade barriers will be dismantled as is, deregulation of the economic system will continue as is, the continual erosion of privacy and human rights will continue as is, and nothing will be changed.

These republicans wouldn't know the first step of the protest if it slapped them in the face. They don't know what they are doing, other than showing up to public places and either getting sympathizers or hecklers. This changes nothing at all.

What you seem to not understand is that a 'party shift' in Congress doesn't actually threaten anyone. The rich businessmen, politicians, and internationalists will continue getting rich regardless who's in power. As long as their wealth is in check, they will not be threatened, and a tiny group of protesters in each city because Fox News reported will not changing anything. Again I point to that fact that double the protesters (whom were concentrated in one city, not 40+) showed up to throw **** at Bush's vehicle. Nothing changed. They certainly thought there was a change when Obama was elected, but there isn't any, nothing fundamentally different.


The most threatening thing they will do is stop paying taxes, and the IRS will capture all whopping 30k of them easily.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The impression I get (admittedly as an outside observer) is that these Tea Parties were created by and sustained by Fox News, and the whole Tea Party thing isn't going to readily spread beyond their fan base.

That may be, but FOX has a very large fan base.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What, really? I had always pictured you as an unfortunately misguided small businessman, not a corrupt corporate overlord or a religious fundie...

I'm evolving.

I am a small businessman who gets contracts from "corporate overlords" You see, wealth does trickle down and tax cuts fuel the fire. :yes:

Fundie? I'm evolving. I changed my opinion on same sex marriage after coming to RF. You do realize that somewhere between what you think and what I think would be the norm right?

 

[Smoke]

Lindsey, personally I don't mind if people insist on minimizing or ridiculing the Tea Party Movement. I prefer to be underestimated. In fact, it can really come in handy, especially during elections.

Yes, it can, and frankly that's one thing that worries me. It's easy to see Sarah Palin as a clown, it's easy to see her followers as an uninformed and irrational mob, and therefore it's all too easy to dismiss them. It doesn't matter what flaws there are in the program if they (or you, if you consider yourself part of the movement) can stir people up and get them to the polls.

If the Democrats want to be of any use to the country -- or even if they don't but would like a share in power -- they'd better figure out fast how to communicate in a way that motivates and inspires people.

 

[Kathryn]

Let me make one thing abundantly clear - I am not a Republican and I am CERTAINLY not a Palin supporter. I think she's an idiot, and if I had to listen to her for four years, I would frankly rather stick bamboo shoots under my fingernails and then have someone slowly pull each one of them out every day of my life.


I am an independent voter who is very, very concerned about the fiscal side of the picture - and the individual rights of people. Yes, I am a capitalist with strong libertarian leanings. I believe that most career politicians are corrupt and that no one should be allowed to serve more than two terms - anywhere. I believe that Big Government of ANY ilk is counterproductive to our nation's stability and the good of the people.

I believe in rights and freedoms - and the individual's responsibility to handle those rights in a manner that doesn't harm others.

I believe that bureaucracy sucks the life force out of people - from the church committee level, to the school board, to the court system and the Senate floor.

I am afraid that most of our elected representatives care more about advancing their career than they care about the people who voted them in to represent their needs and wishes.

And that's just plain wrong.

It's time to clean house. And Senate.

 

[Darkness]

I am an independent voter who is very, very concerned about the fiscal side of the picture - and the individual rights of people.

I am also very concerned with the the individual rights of people. I merely approach the problem from a different perspective than you do. Money is often used as a method of control. Thus, something such as the legalization of prostitution in libertarian fashion would just legitimize that power relationship.

I believe that Big Government of ANY ilk is counterproductive to our nation's stability and the good of the people.

I would argue that Government is one of the greatest achievements of mankind... after the Who Dat Nation, of course.

 

[Father Heathen]

That may be, but FOX has a very large fan base.

Which means that a lot of people have very low standards when it comes to honesty, accuracy, objectivity and integrity, which is a scary thought.

 

[dust1n]

I would argue that Government is one of the greatest achievements of mankind... after the Who Dat Nation, of course.

And one of the cause of some of the most terrible tragedies in the world. But you are definitely correct about money!

 

[Darkness]

And one of the cause of some of the most terrible tragedies in the world. But you are definitely correct about money!

When you factor in all the deaths that would have occurred in a state of anarchy, it would eclipse the deaths caused by government. I am just guessing here, though.

 

[dust1n]

When you factor in all the deaths that would have occurred in a state of anarchy, it would eclipse the deaths caused by government. I am just guessing here, though.

Then what's the advantage?

 

[Evamorgana]

What we need to avoid underestimating is how ignorant and uninformed the average voter tends to be. These people don't even know what terms like communist, socialist, fascist, etc. even mean and yet toss them around wrecklessly. If these people were honestly worried by big government overspending and overstepping boundaries, where were their protests during the Bush administration?

Exactly right. You've said it all. The world of pollitics is not for everyone.

 

[Magic Man]

I get worried when I realize that the social security system I've been paying into for thirty years for my retirement is in the red and getting redder. I get worried when I make WAY under $250,000 a year and I work till well into April before I start working for myself (till then, all my earnings go toward taxes). I get worried when our national debt is spiraling out of control but we're handing refund checks out like they were candy.

So, you decided to go to anti-Obama rallies? That's weird.

I'm worried about a lot of things, and Obama is one of them. Bush was another one of them. Most career politicians are among my biggest worries in life, for that matter.

So, then, you've been going to protests for years, right?

 

[Kathryn]

So, you decided to go to anti-Obama rallies? That's weird.



So, then, you've been going to protests for years, right?

I have been actively supporting the libertarian party for years. I have been disgusted with Republicans for the past 8 years - but even more disgusted in the past 8 months with Obama's administration.

I guess everyone has their tipping point. Cap and Trade and the Healthdcare fiasco were what pushed me over the edge.