Tennessee sees new step in wave of anti-Trans bills

[Fallen Prophet]

I certainly don't agree. I use the men's room, obviously. Lol.

I don't think the law should be changed because there are men out there who will abuse it.

I don't think you are going to have any issues.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

For your information, Frank does not agree with that position. You're advocating he use the women's restroom. But he's rather quite masculine and manly. Could you imagine the scene if a bearded man goes in the women's restroom to use it?
And there is also the fact other countries of the world do have more private stalls and don't segregate restrooms based on sex or gender. They are doing just fine.

I am advocating that the law not be changed because it helps mitigate the risk of bad people taking advantage.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am advocating that the law not be changed because it helps mitigate the risk of bad people taking advantage.

No it doesn't. As has been pointed out I don't know how many times now that lots of places don't segregate the restrooms and they are just fine.
You're also advocating something that increases the risks to us. Like Frank. He looks and acts very much like a man. He would be viewed as a burly, bearded man who is in the wrong place. And no laws are being changed. Frank, a guy, who's more manly and masculine than many cis males, belongs in the men's restroom because he's a man. Changing the law would be requiring this man to use the women's restroom.

 

[Sand Dancer]

This ideology has already proven to be a slippery slope.

Transgender activists have been equating gender with biological sex since the inception of the current definition of "gender".

Any claim that there are more than two genders or biological sexes - that gender is disconnected from biological sex - or that anyone can change either - is what leads us to chaos and anarchy.

The body and brain genderize at different times during gestation, and sometimes things don't end up changing. And sometimes things don't jive when the fetus physically changes from female to male. They can't help that.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

The body and brain genderize at different times during gestation, and sometimes things don't end up changing. And sometimes things don't jive when the fetus physically changes from female to male. They can't help that.

If I am understanding what you said correctly - that is irrelevant.

There are still only the two genders and biological sexes, and they cannot be changed.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

No it doesn't. As has been pointed out I don't know how many times now that lots of places don't segregate the restrooms and they are just fine.
You're also advocating something that increases the risks to us. Like Frank. He looks and acts very much like a man. He would be viewed as a burly, bearded man who is in the wrong place. And no laws are being changed. Frank, a guy, who's more manly and masculine than many cis males, belongs in the men's restroom because he's a man. Changing the law would be requiring this man to use the women's restroom.

I understand that you live in California - but for the majority of the country - men are not allowed to use women's restrooms and vice versa.

I'm not trying to change the law - but stop it from being changed - because as we learned from San Francsico and the rest of California - bad people take advantage of bad laws and policy.

A line has to be drawn somewhere and I have no doubt that @Saint Frankenstein will have no issues using the men's restroom - because he presents as a male and he is not a pervert looking to abuse anyone.

You keep talking about these other places - without ever giving a single example - but I have an example for you - Scotland allows male rapists to be imprisoned in all-female jails as long as they claim to be transgender.

It has led to women getting raped in jail.

A line has to be drawn somewhere and changing the laws will allow bad people to take advantage.

 

[Sand Dancer]

If I am understanding what you said correctly - that is irrelevant.

There are still only the two genders and biological sexes, and they cannot be changed.

I don't get all of the different gender types people talk about, but I think when attributes become very narrow, it causes those who don't perfectly fit in to find another name for their type. If people were more accepting of differences, people would be happy being female or male, IMO. Those who are different are judged, bullied and made fun of, so I am not surprised that they want to find their own place.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A line has to be drawn somewhere and I have no doubt that @Saint Frankenstein will have no issues using the men's restroom - because he presents as a male and he is not a pervert looking to abuse anyone.

Ok, yet you tell me you'd harass me for using the women's restroom. You say it's ok now even though I have used the same "presenting as" argument before and you said it can't happen because of "bad people."
Bad people do bad things regardless. Are we going to ban and censor the world because bad people do bad things? Of course not. Like bad people selling alcohol to minors. It would be dumb to ban alcohol because of that.
And you keep saying "change the law," but you acknowledge it's ok for Frank to use the men's restroom although by your reasoning he should be in the women's restroom because he was born female.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A line has to be drawn somewhere and changing the laws will allow bad people to take advantage.

That line is drawn at mind your own damn business.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I don't get all of the different gender types people talk about, but I think when attributes become very narrow, it causes those who don't perfectly fit in to find another name for their type. If people were more accepting of differences, people would be happy being female or male, IMO. Those who are different are judged, bullied and made fun of, so I am not surprised that they want to find their own place.

People are free to behave and identify as they want - but they cannot claim that there are more than two genders or biological sexes or that anyone can change them.

That's just how it is.

I believe that what people need to do is just accept who and what they are - and that they are worthy of love - rather than losing themselves in some "identity" that will never be able to accurately describe who they are or fill whatever emotional hole they are trying to fill.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Ok, yet you tell me you'd harass me for using the women's restroom.

I don't recall ever saying that. Can you quote me?

How would I be able to "harass" you for using the women's restroom when I am never going to be in a women's restroom - because I am a man?

I think you are referring to when I said that a woman in the restroom should have the right to tell a man to leave the women's restroom.

You say it's ok now even though I have used the same "presenting as" argument before and you said it can't happen because of "bad people."

I am not saying that I think that it is "ok" - only that I don't think @Saint Frankenstein will have any issue.

I don't think people should break the law and I believe that our biology is the first barrier to help us mitigate risk in public restrooms.

Bad people do bad things regardless.

Correct - and you believe that means we should just disband all law?

San Francisco only started to have issues with human feces and used needles on their streets when they became lax and didn't enforce their laws.

California didn't have so many "smash and grab" incidents until they decriminalized theft under $1,000.

There are some people who only decide not to do bad things because the law says not to, and they will be punished if they do it.

Are we going to ban and censor the world because bad people do bad things?

No one is being banned from using public restrooms.

Of course not. Like bad people selling alcohol to minors. It would be dumb to ban alcohol because of that.

But we do check IDs - to make sure that people are old enough to drink before allowing them to buy alcohol.

And if a concerned citizen saw such a transaction - minor being sold alcohol - they should report it to law enforcement.

It is the responsible thing to do - that mitigates risk to minors.

I personally see no use for alcohol - and actually believe it does nothing but harm - so I wouldn't mind seeing it disappear.

And you keep saying "change the law," but you acknowledge it's ok for Frank to use the men's restroom although by your reasoning he should be in the women's restroom because he was born female.

No - I have been saying, "Don't change the law."

And I never said that I thought that it was "ok" for any woman to use the men's restroom.

That line is drawn at mind your own damn business.

Tell that to the people who have been raped in public restrooms.

You want to give potential rapists a "leg up".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How would I be able to "harass" you for using the women's restroom when I am never going to be in a women's restroom - because I am a man?

Stopping me from using the restroom, or hindering me from going there, because you're scared of pervy men, is harassment.

I am not saying that I think that it is "ok" - only that I don't think @Saint Frankenstein will have any issue.

He would indeed have a very big problem using the ladies restroom. He's not a lady, but your "biology first" rubbish would put this masculine man in the ladies room.

I personally see no use for alcohol - and actually believe it does nothing but harm - so I wouldn't mind seeing it disappear.

That was a miserable failure. Most people don't have problems with alcohol and it actually has some health benefits when consumed in moderation.
And it still stands we can't ban the world because of "bad people." That just gives a big middle finger to those who aren't doing wrong.

No - I have been saying, "Don't change the law."

And I never said that I thought that it was "ok" for any woman to use the men's restroom.

You did with Frank.

Tell that to the people who have been raped in public restrooms.

You want to give potential rapists a "leg up".

Do you think your dumb laws and ideas are going to stop them? Very few rapes happen in a bathroom anyways. And the attacker is often someone the victim knows.
Now you show us your ignorance of the typical rape. Ever hear of Rohypnol? They don't need a bathroom and I haven't heard you attack clubs and bars because of bad people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No one is being banned from using public restrooms.

You would ban people because Frank doesn't belong in the women's restroom just as I don't belong in the men's. Seriously. I sometimes got weird looks in them when I still used them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You would ban people because Frank doesn't belong in the women's restroom just as I don't belong in the men's. Seriously. I sometimes got weird looks in them when I still used them.

One of my friends who is a trans woman said she would get messed with in the men's room, because she was always very girly looking. No one messes with me in the men's room, even before I was on testosterone.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One of my friends who is a trans woman said she would get messed with in the men's room, because she was always very girly looking. No one messes with me in the men's room, even before I was on testosterone.

I haven't been messed with, just odd, weird, puzzled looks trying to figure out if I belong there or not.
I really don't think FP realizes a lot of us just go about our lives like everybody else. He thinks were all trying to force things on people, but a couple friends considered me one if the girls anyways before I came out. When someone calls me miss, ma'am, young lady or whatever I didn't even ask for it to happen. It just does. Nothing nefarious. No screaming or shouting. No preaching ideology. Just mundane crap like anyone else. I just get to enjoy the fact women's clothing tends to fit me better than men's. And enjoy being treated like a woman. When it's a good interaction. I could do without the sexual harassment. I didn't like the guys who kept doing an endless barrage of short car horn blasts from his truck to get my attention either. I feel flattered but that horn was irritating, lmao.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

We are just saying the same things over and over - so I'm going to stop responding to you on this thread now - unless you say something new and interesting.

Stopping me from using the restroom, or hindering me from going there, because you're scared of pervy men, is harassment.

Why did you ignore my first sentence?

My request for you to quote me claiming that I would " harass [you] for using the women's restroom."

You can't - can you?

Any comment I made about you not being allowed to use the women's public restroom were made after you led me to believe that you lived in Indiana.

I understand that California has passed different laws than Indiana.

That being said - if you lived in Indiana - I would try to encourage you to live in compliance with the law, admonish you when you expressed desire to break the law or try to stop you from actively breaking the law.

And I wouldn't do this because I hate transgender people or because I am "sacred of pervy men" - but because the law dictates that public restroom usage is determined by our biology.

The law is a barrier - to prevent predators from taking advantage.

It is not harassment for a citizen to encourage other citizens to comply with the law.

It is not harassment for a citizen to admonish other citizens who express a desire to break the law.

It is not harassment for a citizen to try and stop other citizens from breaking the law.

He would indeed have a very big problem using the ladies restroom. He's not a lady, but your "biology first" rubbish would put this masculine man in the ladies room.

How? There are no "sex" detectors or "sex IDs" needed.

The only way that @Saint Frankenstein would have any issue in a public restroom is if he did something inappropriate.

That was a miserable failure.

I didn't say "prohibit" - I said "disappear".

If I could pull a "Thanos" and snap my fingers to make alcohol disappear - as well as all memory of alcohol - I'd do it and I believe there would be no downside to it.

Most people don't have problems with alcohol and it actually has some health benefits when consumed in moderation.

Any "health benefit" that can be gained from alcohol could be gained in even greater quantity and quality from other sources.

And those sources wouldn't have any chance of inebriating the individual.

You don't need to be an alcoholic to make a bad decision with alcohol that ruins lives.

The only way to ensure that you never have a problem with alcohol is to never drink it.

I've seen people's lives destroyed by alcohol. It has killed friends of mine.

Literally no good comes from it.

And it still stands we can't ban the world because of "bad people." That just gives a big middle finger to those who aren't doing wrong.

You say that now - but I bet you're one of the first to say that we should ban all guns because of "bad people".

There should be rules regarding public restroom use - like how there are rules regarding guns - to mitigate risk without taking people's right from them.

You did with Frank.

Nope - I simply said that I don't think he'd have an issue.

Do you think your dumb laws and ideas are going to stop them?

Here you are arguing that we should just get rid of all laws again.

Nothing can stop bad people from doing bad things - but there are many people who are "on the fence" - who only don't do bad things because the law forbids them.

I'll point to San Francisco again - human feces and used needles on the streets and all the "smash and grab" going on - done by people who are only doing these things because the system allows them to get away with it.

Laws aren't just "rules" - but they enforce punishments on those who break them - which incentivizes appropriate behavior.

Very few rapes happen in a bathroom anyways.

So?

Very few transgender people are being assaulted in the restroom that corresponds to their biology.

That means we should just ignore it?

And the attacker is often someone the victim knows.

All the more reason to have the law in place.

The law doesn't make exceptions for "acquaintances, friends and family members".

Now you show us your ignorance of the typical rape.

"Typical" rape?

Ever hear of Rohypnol? They don't need a bathroom and I haven't heard you attack clubs and bars because of bad people.

No one ever brought up clubs or bars before - the issue has been public restrooms - so why would I discuss them?

Clubs and bars are other things that I would "Thanos" away if I could.

So much time and energy wasted at those kinds of establishments. Nothing good comes from them.

I may respond to you again if you say something new and interesting.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Any comment I made about you not being allowed to use the women's public restroom were made after you led me to believe that you lived in Indiana.

I understand that California has passed different laws than Indiana.

That being said - if you lived in Indiana - I would try to encourage you to live in compliance with the law, admonish you when you expressed desire to break the law or try to stop you from actively breaking the law.

And for the I don't know how many times it is legal for me to use the women's restroom in Indiana. You didn't use the word harassment, but trying to stop from using the restroom because of vigilante bull**** IS harassment.

You say that now - but I bet you're one of the first to say that we should ban all guns because of "bad people".

More bad, wild assumptions. Just stop.

I may respond to you again if you say something new and interesting.

In other words if I say something you agree with that is equally dumb as your crap.
And, BTW, Frank would have a HUGE problem using the women's restroom. It's where you'd put him and he doesn't belong. Seriously, he's got a big beard, amd I think he even has his septum pierced. Or at least I think he does. He's definitely manly and masculine enough to pull it off and it just be there in my head.

All the more reason to have the law in place.

Except it has nothing to do with bathrooms.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Any "health benefit" that can be gained from alcohol could be gained in even greater quantity and quality from other sources.

Alcohol is another area you stand not on solid ground as you speak.
Alcohol: Balancing Risks and Benefits

 

[Fallen Prophet]

And for the I don't know how many times it is legal for me to use the women's restroom in Indiana. You didn't use the word harassment, but trying to stop from using the restroom because of vigilante bull**** IS harassment.

More bad, wild assumptions. Just stop.

In other words if I say something you agree with that is equally dumb as your crap.
And, BTW, Frank would have a HUGE problem using the women's restroom. It's where you'd put him and he doesn't belong. Seriously, he's got a big beard, amd I think he even has his septum pierced. Or at least I think he does. He's definitely manly and masculine enough to pull it off and it just be there in my head.

Except it has nothing to do with bathrooms.

Alcohol is another area you stand not on solid ground as you speak.
Alcohol: Balancing Risks and Benefits

Ooh - vigilantism - that's new.

I never claimed that I would harass or physically accost anyone.

I compared the reporting of a man going into a women's public restroom like a person reporting someone driving recklessly or littering.

I always maintained that the authorities would be contacted - not that I would start a fight with someone.

If the authorities don't believe it is worth looking into - that's on them - I did my due diligence.

If - however - my wife happened to be in that restroom that you just entered - I'd enter right behind you.

If you have the right to enter - then so do I.

You claim that I made a "wild assumption" about your position on banning guns - but that's not a denial.

I think I hit the nail on the head.

Unfortunately - it is not our physical features - such as a beard or gender traits - such asour masculinity - that determine our biological sex.

Acquaintances, friends and family are just as likely to use public restrooms as a place to prey on others as anyone else.

Is that another source that you shared without reading?

Where in that link does it claim that alcohol is the only method of receiving certain health benefits?

You tend never to quote from your own sources - because they keep proving you wrong (remember Gertie the Hen and that 120-page guidebook?) - so I'd like you to give it a try this time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If - however - my wife happened to be in that restroom that you just entered - I'd enter right behind you.

That is harassment.

If you have the right to enter - then so do I.

I showed you why I have the legal permission to be there. You do not.

You claim that I made a "wild assumption" about your position on banning guns - but that's not a denial.

I think I hit the nail on the head.

I don't believe guns should be banned, so way to add to your dumb crap and wild assumptions.

Where in that link does it claim that alcohol is the only method of receiving certain health benefits?

There's lots of different ways to get health benefits. Like exercise. But thats not the only method of getting certain health benefits.
See how dumb that is? The benefits that come from moderate drinking come from the drink. You can't get it another way.