Tennessee sees new step in wave of anti-Trans bills

[SomeRandom]

Years ago my dad had to run to bathroom. He hurries in, goes to a stall, and I forget how exactly the story goes but the lady in the stall next to him "John?" Turns out this lady is an old friend of my parents. He was mega embarrassed, she didn't let him live it down for awhile, and that was it.

Ahaha that’s awesome

 

[SkepticThinker]

It’s why I’ve never understood this hysteria (and yes I consider it hysteria) around trans people using bathrooms after (or even during) transitioning. Like most people have likely accidentally went into the wrong bathroom at least once. Nothing nefarious has ever happened as a result.
If a predator wants to use the bathroom for nefarious means, it’s not like there’s any set of laws or magical forcefields to prevent them doing so. Nothing is technically stopping them doing so now. Well except for consent laws which they disregard anyway. So how would allowing trans women using the women’s bathroom do anything to stop or encourage an already existing (but thankfully not very frequent) phenomenon?

Great points! I couldn't agree more.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I have gotten weird looks for using the bathroom once. It was a “women’s emergency” and in my haste I accidentally went into the men’s restroom. No one was injured or raped. I was slightly embarrassed when I realised my mistake though.
Oh the horror!

You realized that you had made a mistake - you didn't do anything inappropriate while in the men's room - so that is why no one felt the need to contact the authorities.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Why? Does your wife check for penis by groping everyone else who's in the restroom with her or something? Sounds like she's the one doing the harassing.

It has been my experience that most transgender people are recognized as such by sight and basic use of our frontal cortex.

No inspections required.

Also, it's odd that you would rather have her share the restroom with burly, bearded transmen (born biologically female), which I'm sure would cause far more shrieking.

I believe that our biology should determine which public restrooms we use and most of the States in our Union agree with me.

Biological males - typically - are larger, stronger, faster and have more endurance than the average woman - so yeah - most women may be shocked when they see a bearded woman enter the restroom - but if that bearded woman were to do something inappropriate and an altercation ensued - the other women would be more likely to be able to defend themselves.

And they are less likely to be raped by a penis if there is no penis involved.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

It’s why I’ve never understood this hysteria (and yes I consider it hysteria) around trans people using bathrooms after (or even during) transitioning. Like most people have likely accidentally went into the wrong bathroom at least once. Nothing nefarious has ever happened as a result.
If a predator wants to use the bathroom for nefarious means, it’s not like there’s any set of laws or magical forcefields to prevent them doing so. Nothing is technically stopping them doing so now. Well except for consent laws which they disregard anyway. So how would allowing trans women using the women’s bathroom do anything to stop or encourage an already existing (but thankfully not very frequent) phenomenon?

California experienced a lot of "smash and grab" robberies after they decriminalized theft under $1,000.

There are a lot of people who decide not to do bad things simply because there is a law in place that forbids it and a system that would punish them if they decided to do it.

If you allow men to enter and use a women's restroom - then there will be the "meeker" predators out there who will be emboldened to take action - because they will not be punished.

And the "hysteria" - I don't think it should be designated as such but whatever - generally revolves around the policies being implemented in our public schools and our vulnerable children.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Trans folk have been using the RRs for the genders they identify with for decades. If these assault concerns were credible then substantial records of such attacks should easily be procured.

I share a link to several cases earlier in the thread.

Not to mention the "slippery slope" that is now affecting our women's shelters and prisons.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Exactly. Are they going to ban "butch" looking women from female restrooms? And you know they would through a much bigger fit if they got what they wanted.and forced transmen to share the restroom with women.

The policy being debated is whether or not a sign should be placed warning people that they may encounter members of the opposite biological sex in the restroom.

How is this a "ban"?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It has been my experience that most transgender people are recognized as such by sight and basic use of our frontal cortex.

No inspections required.

'In your experience' you would have no idea if the trans person you failed to 'clock' was trans because you failed to clock them, thus assumed they were cis. So that's literally just confirmation bias.

It's always funny watching conservatives regularly fail to correctly identify someone's assigned sex at birth but then pretend they have this innate sense of it, and that their experiences with the one or two (usually pre-hormone) trans people they've ever talked to count for anything.

I believe that our biology should determine which public restrooms we use and most of the States in our Union agree with me.

Actually very few do. Mostly just backward hicksvilles.

Biological males - typically - are larger, stronger, faster and have more endurance than the average woman - so yeah - most women may be shocked when they see a bearded woman enter the restroom - but if that bearded woman were to do something inappropriate and an altercation ensued - the other women would be more likely to be able to defend themselves.

Hi, I'm a bearded cis woman. One in ten women have masculinizing conditions like PCOS or hyperandrogen. If I put the barest of effort in, you and your ilk would assume I'm a man and get your britches in a bunch for being 'where I'm supposed to be.'

Although there's always radio silence on where transmen are supposed to pee because then they'd have to admit it'd be way easier for a 'potential predator' to just claim to be a transman thus 'belongs' in a women's restroom.

And they are less likely to be raped by a penis if there is no penis involved.

Neverminding that you don't need a penis to rape and lots of ciswomen and castrated men have raped (it's about power, not penile penetration), you're orders more likely to be raped by a priest in a church office than you are in a bathroom. This is just fear mongering on the behalf of assumed female delicate flowers, not actual concern. Otherwise Republicans wouldn't consistently kill attempts to make actual high risk areas safer, like aforementioned churches, dormitories, or anywhere on military property.

But above and beyond, again, by orders of magnitudes more likely to be raped in the home by someone you already know, not in a bathroom. Not even in unisex bathrooms.

 

[SomeRandom]

California experienced a lot of "smash and grab" robberies after they decriminalized theft under $1,000.

There are a lot of people who decide not to do bad things simply because there is a law in place that forbids it and a system that would punish them if they decided to do it.

If you allow men to enter and use a women's restroom - then there will be the "meeker" predators out there who will be emboldened to take action - because they will not be punished.

And the "hysteria" - I don't think it should be designated as such but whatever - generally revolves around the policies being implemented in our public schools and our vulnerable children.

There’s literally nothing stopping men from entering women’s bathrooms or vice versa now. I’m sure there’s laws against sexual assault in Tennessee that wouldn’t be magically erased even if you explicitly allowed men to enter women’s bathroom to occur in the laws either. So yeah still looking a lot like hysteria to me. Sorry, not sorry

 

[SomeRandom]

You realized that you had made a mistake - you didn't do anything inappropriate while in the men's room - so that is why no one felt the need to contact the authorities.

No one felt the need to contact the authorities because it’s not against the law to use the “wrong” bathroom where I live. So what would they even report me for exactly?
And yet it’s still illegal for someone to be sexually assaulted in a public restroom all the same. Funny that.

Again literally nothing is stopping men from entering the women’s bathrooms and vice versa. Nothing. No laws on the books, no magical forcefields, no guards stationed outside to check people’s genitals for entry.
You might get an odd look but most people tend to mind their own business.
So where is all the rape in my country then? It’s not statistically all that likely to occur in a public bathroom. And there are places with public unisex bathrooms where I live even. Just saying

 

[Debater Slayer]

If you allow men to enter and use a women's restroom - then there will be the "meeker" predators out there who will be emboldened to take action - because they will not be punished.

There's no evidence that trans women--whom you are also incorrectly referring to as "men"--commit crimes in restrooms at a rate any higher than cis women:

Transgender people generally prefer using the bathroom or locker room that matches their gender identity, not the one that corresponds with the gender they were assigned at birth. But conservative critics argue that this could expose others to sexual voyeurism and assault in bathrooms or locker rooms — even though there’s no evidence to support this claim.

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee perpetuated this myth at a 2015 convention, stating, “Now I wish that someone told me that when I was in high school that I could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers in PE. I’m pretty sure that I would have found my feminine side and said, ‘Coach, I think I’d rather shower with the girls today.’”

But as Media Matters pointed out, experts from 12 states that protect trans rights have thoroughly refuted this talking point. In the US, there’s not a single reported instance of this kind of voyeurism occurring in states with legal protections for trans people.

Myth #3: Letting trans people use the bathroom or locker room matching their gender identity is dangerous

Multiple countries also allow trans women to use women's restrooms with no issues. Your statements seem to rely on subjective opinion and personal intuition without evidence or data to back them up.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's always funny watching conservatives regularly fail to correctly identify someone's assigned sex at birth but then pretend they have this innate sense of it, and that their experiences with the one or two (usually pre-hormone) trans people they've ever talked to count for anything.

It really is. The more confident they are in their ability to tell the more they suck at it.

Although there's always radio silence on where transmen are supposed to pee because then they'd have to admit it'd be way easier for a 'potential predator' to just claim to be a transman thus 'belongs' in a women's restroom.

I haven't thought of it from that angle, but that's a really good point. Male predators wouldn't even have to put effort into it. They could just freely walk in and claim to be a transman.
But I just don't see that happening either.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It really is. The more confident they are in their ability to tell the more they suck at it.

My favorite is when they zero in on the neck or upper lip. They really really don't understand how bodies work.

I haven't thought of it from that angle, but that's a really good point. Male predators wouldn't even have to put effort into it. They could just freely walk in and claim to be a transman.
But I just don't see that happening either.

I don't either. Why bother with a cover story? It's just part of their paranoid narrative. But it is funny now inconsistent the narrative is.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Biological males - typically - are larger, stronger, faster and have more endurance than the average woman - so yeah - most women may be shocked when they see a bearded woman enter the restroom - but if that bearded woman were to do something inappropriate and an altercation ensued - the other women would be more likely to be able to defend themselves.

If what you're really referring to is a trans man on testosterone therapy (how do you think I got my full beard, along with male pattern baldness?), the effects of that will make you stronger than the average female, obviously. We get the effects of being able to build and maintain muscle faster and greater strength, as well. It's why trans men on testosterone shouldn't be allowed to compete against women in sports. It's testosterone that creates and maintains most of the characteristics associated with masculinity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If I put the barest of effort in, you and your ilk would assume I'm a man and get your britches in a bunch for being 'where I'm supposed to be.'

To be fair, I don't think a woman with PCOS has ever been honestly seen as a man. Just a woman with facial/more body hair than is usual. I've seen many photos of women with it who chose to grow out their facial hair and such, and all of them looked like women still. It doesn't cause masculinization to the extent that male levels of testosterone do. It's not going to make you look like Buck Angel, Chaz Bono or me. (I recall when I was first starting on testosterone, had labs and my doctor was like "well, you basically have the testosterone level of a woman with PCOS". That was not good enough at all, so the dosage was promptly raised. Lol.) Honestly, if you're a woman, that's a good thing. Lol.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

To be fair, I don't think a woman with PCOS has ever been honestly seen as a man. Just a woman with facial/more body hair than is usual. I've seen many photos of women with it who chose to grow out their facial hair and such, and all of them looked like women still. It doesn't cause masculinization to the extent that male levels of testosterone do. It's not going to make you look like Buck Angel, Chaz Bono or me. (I recall when I was first starting on testosterone, had labs and my doctor was like "well, you basically have the testosterone level of a woman with PCOS". That was not good enough at all, so the dosage was promptly raised. Lol.) Honestly, if you're a woman, that's a good thing. Lol.

Most of the PCOS hirsutism photos still have women who are presenting fem, wear feminine makeup, not trying to hide breasts. But for a lot of us, some binding and a masc makeup (really basic trying, not even like theater grade makeup) can really go a long way.
This is Rose, she used to live near me and went full masc for a couple parties. While she's never going to look like Buck Angel, true, I bet a lot of conservatives would have 'clocked her' as a man in a dress. (This is not her trying to present masc. This is just comfort wear.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Most of the PCOS hirsutism photos still have women who are presenting fem, wear feminine makeup, not trying to hide breasts. But for a lot of us, some binding and a masc makeup (really basic trying, not even like theater grade makeup) can really go a long way.
This is Rose, she used to live near me and went full masc for a couple parties. While she's never going to look like Buck Angel, true, I bet a lot of conservatives would have 'clocked her' as a man in a dress. (This is not her trying to present masc. This is just comfort wear.)
View attachment 58744

Well, yes, there will be a spectrum there and genes play an influence with how hairy you get.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My favorite is when they zero in on the neck or upper lip. They really really don't understand how bodies work.

They aren't the only ones. I've even had supportive health care providers assume I've had surgery at some point to reduce my trachea because I don't have an adams apple. It just never grew in and I never had one. Just like my hands and feet are someone my height who is born male. But, my beat friend, she's only a couple inches shorter than me and we wear the same shoe size. I also have female finger digit ratios, and my hips are a bit wide for someone born male (though nowhere close to what is typically regarded as the normal female hips, although lots of women don't have those hips).
Same with PMS. I didn't know I'd be able to have those symptoms and basically the same thing minus the bleeding (I have IBS so I also get similar abdominal woes). First this happened, my therapist and doctor, both female, after I explained it to them they looked as confused and puzzled as it gets and uttered out "what you described sounds like having a period."
I didn't even know I'd be able to and have to go through that.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

If what you're really referring to is a trans man on testosterone therapy (how do you think I got my full beard, along with male pattern baldness?), the effects of that will make you stronger than the average female, obviously. We get the effects of being able to build and maintain muscle faster and greater strength, as well. It's why trans men on testosterone shouldn't be allowed to compete against women in sports. It's testosterone that creates and maintains most of the characteristics associated with masculinity.

I understand - but the differences would not be as significant as with a biological male.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

There's no evidence that trans women--whom you are also incorrectly referring to as "men"--commit crimes in restrooms at a rate any higher than cis women:

I never once said that transgender people committed crimes of any sort at a higher rate than any other people.

I am talking about predators taking advantage of bad laws and policies.

Considering that a "transgender person" is anyone who claims to be "atypical" in regard to their gender identity, behavior or expression - literally anyone can make this claim without any metric to verify it.

Therefore - anyone of any biological sex could make the claim that any restroom is theirs to use - this is not even to mention women's shelters and prisons.

People in this thread keep trying to make this a "transgender issue" - when it is not.

None of my concerns or arguments have been about transgender people - but about predators - who will use bad laws and policies to take advantage of people when they are most vulnerable.

Multiple countries also allow trans women to use women's restrooms with no issues.

How is there "trans" status determined?

And you can verify that there have been literally zero issues?

Your statements seem to rely on subjective opinion and personal intuition without evidence or data to back them up.

There is evidence of men taking advantage of these bad laws and policies.

5 Times ‘Transgender’ Men Abused Women And Children In Bathrooms | The Daily Wire

Transgender prisoner who sexually assaulted inmates jailed for life | Prisons and probation | The Guardian