No, not even close.
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Thanks to the voters who defeated the "red wave"
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
We Never Know
No Slack
So they have to prove a negative?
I would think those claiming fraud did occur carried the burden of proof.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I'm not the one claiming there is cheating. You are.
As I said, it's the massive recounts and scrutiny of 2020 that well show there is no widespread fraud or cheating going on and the election wasn't swayed.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And I am going to be at least the third one to point out that the person claiming rampant election fraud is the one that bears the burden of proof.
Prove that there is not an invisible blue dragon in my garage whose name is Glenda.
In other words you can't prove your claim that there was no rampant voting fraud.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I did not make that claim. You do not appear to understand how to reason rationally. I did not clam that Martians did not land at the Whitehouse last Thursday either. I can reason rationally so I know that there is no need to make that claim.
People who have absolutely nothing often try to shift the burden of proof. If someone claimed that Martians did land at the Whitehouse last Thursday they would have the burden of proof.
If some loon claimed that there was massive voter fraud that person would have the burden of proof.
If we went around trying to prove that weird things did not happen nothing would ever get done. That would be a 24/7 job.
I am not even making a claim that there was cheating. I made the claim that if there is possible cheating it will happen. YOU are the one making a claim. Precisely you claim there was no rampant voter fraud. But you can't prove your claim.
The counts aren't the issue. Provide your proof that the ballots counted were not fraudulent.
We Never Know
No Slack
Technically anyone "making a claim" carries the burden of proof to support that claim.
However if you claim there was voter fraud and I say there wasnt, the burden of proof lies upon you to prove there was.
So you are not claiming there was no rampant voting fraud. Therefore by induction that means you agree there could have been. Thanks for agreeing.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You would also have to prove that claim. It is not quite as bad as the claim of "massive cheating". But it still requires evidence to be accepted.
We can state that no one has caught anyone cheating in this election yet, and the last election was vey carefully checked and there were very very few cheaters and most of them seemed to be Republicans.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nope, your induction failed. You copied a term but you do not understand it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The problem with fighting so called "voter fraud" is that it is often used to suppress the vote. And yes, I can support that if you like. If an action taken to supposedly fight voter fraud causes more suppression than it prevents cheating then it is unjust and needs to be dropped.
I have claimed that if voting fraud is possible it will happen eventually. You have failed to prove that it isn't possible. Therefore you have the burden of proof. Others here have made the claim that "there was no rampant voter fraud". That is a claim. They have not proved it and they have the burden of proof to do so.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, the person making the positive affirmation typically has the burden of proof.
If one goes out into a vacuum and shouts "There was no voter fraud" and there was no positive claim first then a case could be made for that person providing the burden of proof. But you did not do that. You never took up the burden.
So you do claim there was no voter fraud. Great. You made a claim. You have the burden of proof. Prove your claim.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And you would need to prove that And then you would need to prove that the possible voter suppression would be less than the number of cheating votes.
Good luck with that.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nope. I don't claim that either. You are the only one trying to sneak in a positive affirmation. The burden of proof is yours.
We Never Know
No Slack
"I have claimed that if voting fraud is possible it will happen eventually"
If that's your claim, I agree.
I don't know. I think Republicans are rattled. McCarthy looks to not getting the MAGA votes for Speaker, so that will be a messy process, and McCarthy will lack any options except get democrats to vote for him. To do that he will have to make promises, and that would mean work with Dems to get some legislation passed. It's in his best interest anyway, to be seen working with Dems and getting some popular legislation passed, and try to move away from MAGA.
I predict more stories coming from red states of women getting sick or even dying due to lack of medical care because doctors won't risk treatment in fear of anti-abortion laws. Republicans would be smart to hel ppass of woman healthcare rights bill, at the very least to protect doctors from administering care according to their expertise despite stupid anti-abortion laws in red states. I doubt the pubs will support abortion rights, but something is better than nothing, and republicans have a serious public image problem to solve.
I don't expect much in the way of student debt, or immigration, or taxes. But I suspect republicans will tone down their rhetoric for a while until they figure out what is going on with their voters choosing MAGA candidates.
I think McCarthy and others in republoican leadership need to stop pandering to the MAGAs. They need to put their foot down like they are dealing with children. With the MAGAs failing badly, and Trump facing indictmemnt soon, they have a great opportunity to reform and remessage. They would be smart to let the Jan 6 committee continue, at least for appearnaces. Let that committee kill off Trump's legacy so they can move on. And no impeachment of Biden or others. They need to do their jobs.
As I noted I think it will be an ongoing issue for women, and their healthcare in red states. As more stories of women who don't recieve care mount and make headlines, it will remind voters what republicans did.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But then the question becomes "To what degree".
It looks as if he wants to have Draconian laws on voter registration and ID"s. The right knows that it is easier to follow those laws if one is not poor. It appears that their motive is to stifle the vote of the poor since the actual cheating that has occurred is far less than the suppression of lower class voters.