• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The avoidability of war

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Compromise is always better than a bloodbath, a massacre.
Translation: we should allow powerful nations to bully, dominate and annex smaller ones, because it's preferable to smaller nations actually having the power to fight back, for some reason.

I mean, if you really don't want a bloodbath, perhaps rather than asking for "compromise" you should be asking for Russia to stop the invasion? Don't you think that's a reasonable thing to expect?

I would argue that a Russia-controlled Ukraine, and the movement of Russia westward, would cause more violence and human rights violations. I am glad people are fighting to prevent that from happening.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It turns out in France they want to guillotine the greedy managers of economy...
not fellow Europeans.
The élites is the new enemy in Europe. ;)
Whether warring with each other,
or internally self-destructing over
their wants exceeding their work,
Europe will always face violence.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Whether warring with each other,
or internally self-destructing over
their wants exceeding their work,
Europe will always face violence.

Is war supposed to bring worldly justice?
I am not interested in that kind of justice. My faith is my justice.
 
Last edited:

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I consider myself lucky.
Because my people understood the brutality of war, being on the losing side of WW2.
The Russians, being on the winning side, think war is something always positive because it reminds them of victory.
And they still want to fight that war, after one year of bloodbaths.
They have learnt nothing.

Americans have a similar view, although a key difference with us is that we have never had a war fought on our soil in living memory. The last actual war fought on US soil was the Civil War, and even then, most of it was in the South. Every war we've fought since then has always been somewhere else - far, far away. The World Wars were "Over There," as the song went. The closest we came to having our physical territory threatened was in WW2, when the Japanese Navy was powerful enough to attack Pearl Harbor, the Aleutians, as well as the shelling of the West Coast by Japanese submarines. They also launched those balloon bombs which hit and killed some people in the Western U.S. But even these events were relatively minor compared to the utter devastation they faced in Europe and Asia during the war.

Since then, we fought to a stalemate in Korea, and even lost the war in Vietnam, however even that didn't really affect the physical US territory or the quality of life or the governance of the US proper. We never saw the NVA marching down Pennsylvania Avenue in glorious, triumphant victory, as many war hawks ostensibly feared would happen if we didn't stop the commies in Vietnam. But that didn't happen, and America was never really directly threatened in that or in many other wars we've fought. Americans who were against the war and wanted it stopped did not do so because they were scared, cowardly, or felt threatened in any way. They were against it because they saw it as unnecessarily cruel and brutal, analogous to a 250-pound bully picking on a 98-pound weakling.

As a consequence, Americans don't seem to have any real genuine "fear" of war, other than in abstract hypothetical scenarios about nuclear war, which most sane people would fear. But all in all (as Captain Kirk might put it), Americans have made war "neat and painless," for all practical purposes.

Sure, we've gotten into wars with mighty behemoths like Grenada and Panama, but even the Iraq and Afghan wars were fought "over there," while we Americans sat back and watched it all on TV. Of course, we still care about our own countrymen who fought over there, as many go the extra mile in thanking the veterans, supporting the troops, and waving the flag at Fourth of July picnics.

However, all in all, Americans generally feel pretty safe, and anytime there is a war fever and a call to war, Americans do so without any fear that anything bad will ever happen to them. Even movies like Red Dawn seem almost comical to many Americans. And even 9/11 didn't really change that view, since it was obvious that the only way anyone could cause any damage to America is by stealing our planes and using them. It wasn't as if the Al Qaeda Air Force came in and bombed New York.

Americans believe that we are virtually invincible, and that no one could ever harm us to any significant degree. The only real major public complaint about the military seems to revolve around the military going too far or behaving in a manner of that of a bully, not a defender of human rights.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Is war supposed to bring worldly justice?
There is no singular goal of war.
The motives differ for each party to it.
For Putin, it's conquest.
For Ukraine, it's defense.
Only Ukraine's is about justice.
Putin's is predation.
I am not interested in that kind of justice. My faith is my justice.
My reward will be to know that the warmongers and the sowers of war will be tried and sentenced by God.
Because thank God we are all mortals. Life has a temporal limit.
For us materialists, there is no waiting for your God
to make things right in some imagined after-life.
We face the real world. Putin needs his behind beaten
now. Your God isn't doing anything useful here on Earth.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I consider myself lucky.
Because my people understood the brutality of war, being on the losing side of WW2.
The Russians, being on the winning side, think war is something always positive because it reminds them of victory.
And they still want to fight that war, after one year of bloodbaths.
They have learnt nothing.
"Winning side"? So far the war has been nothing but a devastating embarrassment for Russia.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
It does exist. European countries have never been at war with each other. Since 1945.

Maybe not with each other but;

Oct. 19-20, 2001: The ground war begins, with special forces striking in Kandahar. In the coming weeks, Britain, Turkey, Germany, Italy, The Netherlands, France and Poland all announce they will deploy troops to Afghanistan.

Coalition forces


And the support for Ukraine

They may not have troops on the ground, but a united support.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Maybe not with each other but;

Oct. 19-20, 2001: The ground war begins, with special forces striking in Kandahar. In the coming weeks, Britain, Turkey, Germany, Italy, The Netherlands, France and Poland all announce they will deploy troops to Afghanistan.

Coalition forces


And the support for Ukraine

They may not have troops on the ground, but a united support.
Germany, a former occupied country, under the yoke the US.
Do they have a choice?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I believe war is something absolutely unnecessary and avoidable.
It's a stage of evolution a civilization goes through. And once a civilization evolves from that stage, they think of war as something absolutely horrific and disgusting.
Something that belongs to the animalistic stage of mankind.

On April 25 and May 8, Italy and Germany, celebrate the end of the war, respectively. A day called Liberation Day.
Liberation from the dictatorship, but especially from the horrors of war and genocide.

I think that my country will never fight a war any more. So it's absolutely scary that someone speaks of war in the 21st century, as if it were possible that a civilization could de-evolve.

Italy is too poor and weak to try anything again.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Odd...you celebrate losing WW2?
I suppose this is good, ie, better to celebrate
Hitler & Italy losing WW2 than to celebrate
their having won it.

Italy joined the Allies in 1943. So by 1945, they would have been on the winning side. Moreover, they would have had excellent reasons to celebrate the defeat of the German troops occupying their country.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
What we Italians did in 1943, when the Allies landed in Sicily. When a power is superior, one surrenders.

Ukraine is a fly compared to Russia. It's like Luxembourg wanted to defeat Germany.
So you suggest appeasing tyrants and terrorists by allowing them to act with impunity? That's the precedent you want to set?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
What we Italians did in 1943, when the Allies landed in Sicily. When a power is superior, one surrenders.

Ukraine is a fly compared to Russia. It's like Luxembourg wanted to defeat Germany.
Opinions are best when connected to reality.

Little colonies in the New World defeated
the mightiest empire the world has ever
known.

The Vietnamese defeated the USA. After defeating the French and Chinese.

Afghanistan defeated the British, Russians
and Americans.
 
Top