The Bacteria.

[LuisDantas]

Do you thnk human had full ability to see all things ?

No. But I do think that after a few decades of worldwide research and application of those findings by many thousands of often greedy people, one has little choice but to believe the evidence.

Or, perhaps, God wants believers to learn better than to trust scripture over verifiable fact?

angels also created from light.

Is fire living thing ?

How your cretria distinct between the living thing and non-living thing ?

See my previous post.

 

[Godobeyer]

No. But I do think that after a few decades of worldwide research and application of those findings by many thousands of often greedy people, one has little choice but to believe the evidence.

Or, perhaps, God wants believers to learn better than to trust scripture over verifiable fact?

Maybe because human science is not perfect enough to discover hide creatures (Jinny and Angels)?

Do you think all paranormal activities are just fake and lies ?

 

[McBell]

What is unclear is why people ask such things that have been well understood for such a long time.

I suspect it is because they think if they can confuse the issue enough and then throw god into the mix that people will have god exists epiphanies.

Though I suspect it only works with the choir.

 

[FearGod]

You can also see them in your teeth. The plaque is mostly made of bacteria.

No i can't see the bacteria in my teeth, the dental plaque is the remains of food and some chemical reactions
which cause it to be formed, the dental plaque isn't the bacteria.

This is what they look like under a microscope. The shapes vary on bacteria and strain, not all of them are rod shape:

You can also look at them with a scanning electron microscope:

Did i say that the living bacteria doesn't exist, i know that they do exit and can't be seen by us.

 

[FearGod]

The Qura'n talks about Djinns made of smokeless fire and describes life as breath or wind.

I guess some people take that so literally as to assume that microscopes lie. Or something.

God described the unseen world as the first creation before ours, not being seen by us doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[FearGod]

O Servant of Allah, there is a particular temperature for each thing at which it will vaporize, even

But he said it wouldn't, you should answer him and not me !!!!

iron. It helps to have studied science.Sure, put a human in a furnace. All water in his body will quickly vaporize and the person will die. What is so strange in this?

Nothing strange about humans but about the bacteria.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Luis;

Defining life is surprisingly difficult, but it is generally accepted that it involves a material body, material nutrition, reproduction and excretory system.

Hmm - that describes perfectly how the body MACHINE works - but doesnt actually tell us anything about LIFE itself - does it..?..The body is not the SOURCE of the life to begin with - so trying to work this out from a a scientific material perspective simply wont work I dont think...We can define what life LOOKS like - how we expect it to behave - but we dont have a clue at all as to what life ACTUALLY is...

WHAT is this ABSTRACT force that suddenly kicks in and starts the body MACHINE up and running..??...Its NOT CONTAINED within the material structures that we call "life" - and we know that because try as we might - we simply can NOT get the basic building blocks such as dna and rna to SPONTANEOUSLY occur - we ourselves can NOT simply cause life to exist...Neither can we take once alive things kill them and then re animate them despite knowing how they are put together fully, right down AT that genetic level....we understand a LOT OF KNOWLEDGE - but the very first crucial question remains totally unanswered..WHAT is life ACTUALLY..?....WHAT is the force that POWERS these forms..?...

(it is a MIND)

Science tells us that "life" started as a "soup of chemical ingrediants" - that somehow came together in exactly the right combination and ratios to kick start a purely chemical reaction that leads to ever more complex forms..That is most obviosuly very flawed - probably totally erroneous in fact - it may LOOK like it happened that way - but on closer inspection we soon see that it COULD NOT have happened that way at all..

Life came about spontaneously they say - but it most certainly did not - and they then went on to PROVE their first theory as incorrect...See and understand here - we can take a living creature - break it down to its chemical constituent parts and we can then leve them alone inthat "soup" just as they say it happened in the beginning...Now, according to their theory, when these chemicals come together in the correct mix, this process just kick starts all by itself....lol....and life happens...

Except of course - NO IT DOESNT - not EVER - kill something, mash it up into a chemical paste - it does NOT spontanously come back to life..lol..and so we know for sure that when they say life started as this random primordial mix of chemicals out in the WORLDS OCEANS that somehow got gathered in the PRECISE conditions necassary - it is all complete BS and their own experiments show us this simly never happened at all and that life MUST have been a PLANNED EVENT...

MUST have been - and we know that because as said - kill something - mash it up then wait for life to happen and re animate - it DOES NOT EVER HAPPEN - BUT - INTERVENE a bit - MANIPULATE it a bit - apply our WISDOM and OUR MIND - and we can MAKE it happen !!

We CAN form base building blocks form raw chemicals - but it DOES require PLANNED PROCESS to make the chemicals bind the way we need...Unless these base chemical interactions occur precisely then the process fails and "life" doesnt take hold at all...Therefore science already knows beyond any doubt life here WAS a planned event...It REQUIRES direct manipulation to make these base structures exist..This means of course there was a fully Sentient intelligent and forward thinking planing MIND that quite literally caused the life process ot start...The obvious truth of known scientific facts makes this abundantly clear - for the process requires direct intervention and that intervention must be precise and planned..

DNA never forms spontaneously ever as far as we can actually tell - it doesnt miraculously "come to life" even when the exact chemical ratios are placed together in the perfect conditions,still FAILURE each and every time..To even start the process requires precise tinkering and manipulation - and to mimick the complete process is way way way beyond what man currently understands....Despite our best efforts - we find that life is something EXTERNAL to the body form - like a seed that was placed within it and once that body form fails so that seed is removed again...Even if you repair the form, the seed remains absent...Despite fully knowing the entire genome of the animal - literal blueprint for the bodyform - still we cannot "grow the seed of life" at all - it is something ENTIRELY SEPERATE to the material process.....The thing that is actually missing - is the elusive "Divine spark of life" - a tiny energetic impulse of ORIGINAL Divine mind that will then literally power the individual form...Life is not physical at all...All about MIND coming to Self awareness....

 

[LuisDantas]

Maybe because human science is not perfect enough to discover hide creatures (Jinny and Angels)?

Are you truly asking me to doubt known facts for the sake of scripture?

No can do. The proper question is not whether non-Muslims should trust the Qur'an over actual knowledge, but rather whether Muslims should.

Do you think all paranormal activities are just fake and lies ?

That is a separate and unrelated question, but if you want a direct answer, than yes, I do. There is a lot of wishful thinking there as well, but ultimately the answer is still yes.

 

[LuisDantas]

God described the unseen world as the first creation before ours, not being seen by us doesn't mean they don't exist.

Fair enough.

Why do you say that even while ignoring what is known, though? Are you aware that you are pretending that there is no actual knowledge about bacteria and expecting others to play along?

 

[McBell]

Hi Folks..

Luis;

Hmm - that describes perfectly how the body MACHINE works - but doesnt actually tell us anything about LIFE itself - does it..?..The body is not the SOURCE of the life to begin with - so trying to work this out from a a scientific material perspective simply wont work I dont think...We can define what life LOOKS like - how we expect it to behave - but we dont have a clue at all as to what life ACTUALLY is...

WHAT is this ABSTRACT force that suddenly kicks in and starts the body MACHINE up and running..??...Its NOT CONTAINED within the material structures that we call "life" - and we know that because try as we might - we simply can NOT get the basic building blocks such as dna and rna to SPONTANEOUSLY occur - we ourselves can NOT simply cause life to exist...Neither can we take once alive things kill them and then re animate them despite knowing how they are put together fully, right down AT that genetic level....we understand a LOT OF KNOWLEDGE - but the very first crucial question remains totally unanswered..WHAT is life ACTUALLY..?....WHAT is the force that POWERS these forms..?...

(it is a MIND)

Science tells us that "life" started as a "soup of chemical ingrediants" - that somehow came together in exactly the right combination and ratios to kick start a purely chemical reaction that leads to ever more complex forms..That is most obviosuly very flawed - probably totally erroneous in fact - it may LOOK like it happened that way - but on closer inspection we soon see that it COULD NOT have happened that way at all..

Life came about spontaneously they say - but it most certainly did not - and they then went on to PROVE their first theory as incorrect...See and understand here - we can take a living creature - break it down to its chemical constituent parts and we can then leve them alone inthat "soup" just as they say it happened in the beginning...Now, according to their theory, when these chemicals come together in the correct mix, this process just kick starts all by itself....lol....and life happens...

Except of course - NO IT DOESNT - not EVER - kill something, mash it up into a chemical paste - it does NOT spontanously come back to life..lol..and so we know for sure that when they say life started as this random primordial mix of chemicals out in the WORLDS OCEANS that somehow got gathered in the PRECISE conditions necassary - it is all complete BS and their own experiments show us this simly never happened at all and that life MUST have been a PLANNED EVENT...

MUST have been - and we know that because as said - kill something - mash it up then wait for life to happen and re animate - it DOES NOT EVER HAPPEN - BUT - INTERVENE a bit - MANIPULATE it a bit - apply our WISDOM and OUR MIND - and we can MAKE it happen !!

We CAN form base building blocks form raw chemicals - but it DOES require PLANNED PROCESS to make the chemicals bind the way we need...Unless these base chemical interactions occur precisely then the process fails and "life" doesnt take hold at all...Therefore science already knows beyond any doubt life here WAS a planned event...It REQUIRES direct manipulation to make these base structures exist..This means of course there was a fully Sentient intelligent and forward thinking planing MIND that quite literally caused the life process ot start...The obvious truth of known scientific facts makes this abundantly clear - for the process requires direct intervention and that intervention must be precise and planned..

DNA never forms spontaneously ever as far as we can actually tell - it doesnt miraculously "come to life" even when the exact chemical ratios are placed together in the perfect conditions,still FAILURE each and every time..To even start the process requires precise tinkering and manipulation - and to mimick the complete process is way way way beyond what man currently understands....Despite our best efforts - we find that life is something EXTERNAL to the body form - like a seed that was placed within it and once that body form fails so that seed is removed again...Even if you repair the form, the seed remains absent...Despite fully knowing the entire genome of the animal - literal blueprint for the bodyform - still we cannot "grow the seed of life" at all - it is something ENTIRELY SEPERATE to the material process.....The thing that is actually missing - is the elusive "Divine spark of life" - a tiny energetic impulse of ORIGINAL Divine mind that will then literally power the individual form...Life is not physical at all...All about MIND coming to Self awareness....

That there is a right nice sermon.
Problem is it is based solely on wishful thinking.

 

[FearGod]

Fair enough.

Why do you say that even while ignoring what is known, though? Are you aware that you are pretending that there is no actual knowledge about bacteria and expecting others to play along?

What's the known that I ignored?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Mestemia; Stating obvious facts and logical undeniable conclusions hardly constitutes a "sermon"...lol..

Which part is "wishful thinking"..??....

We CANNOT cause life to happen despite knowing all about is chemical physical origins...Neither have we EVER seen it sponatneously occur even under perfect lab conditions...We know for sure it REQUIRES direct manipulation to even start it let alone guide the process to completion...We can mimick it in a very limited fashion - but that is not legitimate NATURAL life at all and despite our best efforts we cannot as said grow that crucial "seed of life" and make it become fully formed..

All we can do - is take something that is ALREADY ALIVE - and replicate it from the ALREADY LIVING source..Despite knowing THAT process fully already, we still cannot take the raw ingrediants of the body and cause life to exist at all...No matter what we try there is obviously something MISSING that kick starts the process itself...

its OBVIOUS because as said - just take something that is alive NOW and kill it - mash it up into its soupy chemical form that according to science all life came form SPONTANEOUSLY - now we have EVERYTHING WE NEED all in the same place and we know we do actually have EVERYTHING yes, as this now chemical mix was once an ALIVE animal.....Let it sink in deep.....According to science now - we have absolutely perfect condition and this dna life process should just happen now re animate all by itself just as it does "naturally" they believe....lol.....Waiting....waiting....NOTHING HAPPENS.....EVER....

Hmmm - seems then - despite having ALL the ingrediants there in close proximity - despite these ingrediants ONCE actually being alive - despite the PERFECT conditions - still SOMETHING UNKNOWN IS MISSING and that chemical soup will NEVER spontaneously re animate at all..


is that "wishful thinking" - or is that just plain logical truth..??..

 

[Windwalker]

To my mind, to be TRULY alive - the INDIVIDUAL must be capable of realising their OWN existance.

With this logic a human child is not alive until around the age of two. Self-reflexive awareness only develops at higher stages of growth in humans, around two years of age in general. http://www.psychology.emory.edu/cognition/rochat/Rochat5levels.pdf It's odd how they could be physically growing if they weren't actually alive. Do you consider infants bacterial masses? In fact, to extend that further, there are many adult humans who never really are very self-awareness, if at all. We can of course say metaphorically that they aren't really alive, but to say biologically they are not seems beyond the point of absurd. We are talking about biological life here, not "quality" of life using "life" as a metaphor for "full living".

 

[Godobeyer]

Are you truly asking me to doubt known facts for the sake of scripture?

No can do. The proper question is not whether non-Muslims should trust the Qur'an over actual knowledge, but rather whether Muslims should.

God said in Quran all you would taste the death, no one will live forever., the non-Muslim should trust the Quran on this.

My main interesting question again :
How you explain that scientists (NO ONE) could not revive the death person ?

That is a separate and unrelated question, but if you want a direct answer, than yes, I do. There is a lot of wishful thinking there as well, but ultimately the answer is still yes.

that's know that some persons had the ability to know(they don't know you in person) you secrets or your name mother or father ...etc , or may predict something would happened to you in future.(it would be happened).

 

[FearGod]

Hi Folks..

Mestemia; Stating obvious facts and logical undeniable conclusions hardly constitutes a "sermon"...lol..

Which part is "wishful thinking"..??....

We CANNOT cause life to happen despite knowing all about is chemical physical origins...Neither have we EVER seen it sponatneously occur even under perfect lab conditions...We know for sure it REQUIRES direct manipulation to even start it let alone guide the process to completion...We can mimick it in a very limited fashion - but that is not legitimate NATURAL life at all and despite our best efforts we cannot as said grow that crucial "seed of life" and make it become fully formed..

All we can do - is take something that is ALREADY ALIVE - and replicate it from the ALREADY LIVING source..Despite knowing THAT process fully already, we still cannot take the raw ingrediants of the body and cause life to exist at all...No matter what we try there is obviously something MISSING that kick starts the process itself...

its OBVIOUS because as said - just take something that is alive NOW and kill it - mash it up into its soupy chemical form that according to science all life came form SPONTANEOUSLY - now we have EVERYTHING WE NEED all in the same place and we know we do actually have EVERYTHING yes, as this now chemical mix was once an ALIVE animal.....Let it sink in deep.....According to science now - we have absolutely perfect condition and this dna life process should just happen now re animate all by itself just as it does "naturally" they believe....lol.....Waiting....waiting....NOTHING HAPPENS.....EVER....

Hmmm - seems then - despite having ALL the ingrediants there in close proximity - despite these ingrediants ONCE actually being alive - despite the PERFECT conditions - still SOMETHING UNKNOWN IS MISSING and that chemical soup will NEVER spontaneously re animate at all..


is that "wishful thinking" - or is that just plain logical truth..??..

Because they don't have a better answer and hence a wishful thinking.

 

[LuisDantas]

What's the known that I ignored?

That bacteria have discernible cells and are composed of organic matter.

 

[FearGod]

With this logic a human child is not alive until around the age of two. Self-reflexive awareness only develops at higher stages of growth in humans, around two years of age in general. http://www.psychology.emory.edu/cognition/rochat/Rochat5levels.pdf It's odd how they could be physically growing if they weren't actually alive. Do you consider infants bacterial masses? In fact, to extend that further, there are many adult humans who never really are very self-awareness, if at all. We can of course say metaphorically that they aren't really alive, but to say biologically they are not seems beyond the point of absurd. We are talking about biological life here, not "quality" of life using "life" as a metaphor for "full living".

Weird indeed, the child can't yet reproduce if still a child, can't react, can't eat by him/herself,
can't communicate...etc,living and not living.

 

[FearGod]

That bacteria have discernible cells and are composed of organic matter.

Where did i say so? in which post, i was only asking questions and never decided anything yet.

 

[Windwalker]

God said in Quran all you would taste the death, no one will live forever., the non-Muslim should trust the Quran on this.

No. The Quran stating the absurdly obvious that everyone knows, such as "the sun comes up in the morning", does not translate into reasons to "trust" the Quran to give us life answers. Here's one for you. "If you step in front of a speeding train and it hits you at 70 mph hour, you will die". Since that is true, then you should believe that God does not send prophets into the world, since I don't believe that, and I speak the truth about speeding trains will kill you if you are hit by them.

 

[Windwalker]

Weird indeed, the child can't yet reproduce if still a child, can't react, can't eat by him/herself,
can't communicate...etc,living and not living.

What's the question here?