The bible and gays

[leibowde84]

Have you read the Bible to yourself? Jesus was never religious, a matter of fact he was anti religious ( that costs his life) He did not invent a new religion called Christianity as most people think without reading Bible.

Jesus was a devout Jew who lived in a Jewish society and surrounded himself with fellow Jews, or so the Bible claims. While he did have some ill feelings regarding the Pharisees in the Gospels, that has been shown to be a fabrication, as the Pharisees did not have much political power until after his death. This makes a whole lot of sense because, when the Gospels were written (between 70 - 100AD roughly speaking), the Pharisees had come to some kind of power.

 

[JoStories]

Norman: You dare ask ether-ore to not insult you when you did exactly that to me, you are a hypocrite. Let me help you remember.

Post # 207

1. Norman said: ↑

Norman: The only one giving Mormonism a black eye is you sojourner. You are on ignore, bye.

Click to expand...

Ah... the mark of someone with no ability to debate or even live up to their own faith. All too often, we see people of your faith ignoring others when they are faced with true debate. Sojourner is polite, articulate, funny, and always expressed his or her opinion well. I have no problem with you and what you believe. I do, however, lose a great deal of respect when someone has not the ability to live their faith and just shuts down. Sad really.

Norman: You started to attack me here because I ignored sojourner. You have no right to this comment you made "Ah... the mark of someone with no ability to debate" when we have not debated yet.

Then I would suggest you do debate me with your views on the topic. If you have any opinions on this, I welcome the chance to discuss this with you. I apologize if it seemed I was being rude. I will only say that of late, this forum has been very contentious and often to the point of being rancorous. Again, I welcome the chance to debate with you. Shall we begin again here Norman?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jesus was a devout Jew who lived in a Jewish society and surrounded himself with fellow Jews, or so the Bible claims. While he did have some ill feelings regarding the Pharisees in the Gospels, that has been shown to be a fabrication, as the Pharisees did not have much political power until after his death. This makes a whole lot of sense because, when the Gospels were written (between 70 - 100AD roughly speaking), the Pharisees had come to some kind of power.

Good grief! What, if anything, have you read about the Pharisees and/or 2nd Temple Period Judaism? The sentence ...

While he did have some ill feelings regarding the Pharisees in the Gospels, that has been shown to be a fabrication, as the Pharisees did not have much political power until after his death.​

Doesn't even rise to the level of non sequitur.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Yes some have Ben. But so have you and here you lump me in with the people you say you're 'done with'. No one is asking you to be who you're not. They're merely asking you to explain your views.

No I did not put you in that group. I did notice that you do seem to be more defense toward them. You have not even once try to tell them what a good person I am. That does hurt

 

[sojourner]

This is a beautiful post and I thank you Sojourner. I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to see someone taking a stance that does not portray me as some less than person based on my sexual orientation which is then based on the Bible. I have no issue with anyone who doesn't agree with my lifestyle. I do have an issue with others telling me I am some 'sinner' or that I am less than they are.

I don't disagree with homosexuality. I just disagree that it's right for me.

 

[sojourner]

I did notice that you do seem to be more defense toward them.

Well, gee! I wonder what possible reason someone whose ethnic people have been systemically killed, oppressed, separated from their property, and screwed over for at least 200 years, and who has been subjected to public ridicule, social disenfranchisement, and systemic oppression of equal rights, due to sexual identity, would have to be defensive? (Idn't it great to be a White, straight, Anglo-Saxon Protestant?!)

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Well, gee! I wonder what possible reason someone whose ethnic people have been systemically killed, oppressed, separated from their property, and screwed over for at least 200 years, and who has been subjected to public ridicule, social disenfranchisement, and systemic oppression of equal rights, due to sexual identity, would have to be defensive? (Idn't it great to be a White, straight, Anglo-Saxon Protestant?!)

Get bent. You don't nothing about what I've been through.

 

[leibowde84]

4

Good grief! What, if anything, have you read about the Pharisees and/or 2nd Temple Period Judaism? The sentence ...

While he did have some ill feelings regarding the Pharisees in the Gospels, that has been shown to be a fabrication, as the Pharisees did not have much political power until after his death.​

Doesn't even rise to the level of non sequitur.

I've read a good amount. Here is one (out of many) citations that backs up my point:
"The Pharisees (/ˈfærəˌsiːz/) were at various times a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought in the Holy Land during the time of Second Temple Judaism. After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the foundational, liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism (the term 'Judaism' today almost always refers to Rabbinic Judaism)."
70 CE was roughly 40 years after Jesus' death. Before this, the Pharisees did not have the power claimed by the Gospel writers, according to modern historians.

 

[sojourner]

Get bent. You don't nothing about what I've been through.

"Get bent?" "Get bent??!!" Aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! I... Oh... wow! Aaaaaahahahahahahaha!!! Hoo!
What a response for a Christian. I can't breathe! Aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! Srrsly?!

I don't care what you've been through. You've got social privilege written all over you. You aren't the issue here. But whenever I hear a White, male, straight, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant whine about a First Nations gay woman who he perceives is being "defensive," that's hubris + entitlement writ LARGE.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've read a good amount. Here is one (out of many) citations that backs up my point:
"The Pharisees (/ˈfærəˌsiːz/) were at various times a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought in the Holy Land during the time of Second Temple Judaism. After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the foundational, liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism (the term 'Judaism' today almost always refers to Rabbinic Judaism)."
70 CE was roughly 40 years after Jesus' death. Before this, the Pharisees did not have the power claimed by the Gospel writers, according to modern historians.

How nice that you found the Wikipedia entry. Now tell me, how do you get fro there to: "While he did have some ill feelings regarding the Pharisees in the Gospels, that has been shown to be a fabrication, as the Pharisees did not have much political power until after his death."

Specifically:

1. Who showed it to be a fabrication and where?
2. What specific "political power" is attributed to the Pharisees in the Gospel and where?
3. How might the presence or absence of such "political power" constitute evidence that the ill feelings you reference are a fabrication?

 

[chessplayer]

Get bent. You don't nothing about what I've been through.

IMO

Sex is a private activity not a "shout it from the roof tops " spectator sport, are we really interested what people do in the privacy of their own homes ?.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

"Get bent?" "Get bent??!!" Aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! I... Oh... wow! Aaaaaahahahahahahaha!!! Hoo!
What a response for a Christian. I can't breathe! Aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! Srrsly?!

I don't care what you've been through. You've got social privilege written all over you. You aren't the issue here. But whenever I hear a White, male, straight, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant whine about a First Nations gay woman who he perceives is being "defensive," that's hubris + entitlement writ LARGE.

Social privilege? Don't even make me laugh. If that was true I would not had gone through hell for being handicap. Yes you heard me right handicap. I've been billed and made fun of my whole life fr being slow. Jo knows my story. She knows what I been through. So no I have never any damn privilege. I would not even know what that feels like

 

[BenTheBeliever]

IMO

Sex is a private activity not a "shout it from the roof tops " spectator sport, are we really interested what people do in the privacy of their own homes ?.

Sex had nothing to do with what I was talking about

 

[leibowde84]

"Get bent?" "Get bent??!!" Aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! I... Oh... wow! Aaaaaahahahahahahaha!!! Hoo!
What a response for a Christian. I can't breathe! Aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! Srrsly?!

I don't care what you've been through. You've got social privilege written all over you. You aren't the issue here. But whenever I hear a White, male, straight, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant whine about a First Nations gay woman who he perceives is being "defensive," that's hubris + entitlement writ LARGE.

Take it easy, buddy. I don't think we should assume privilege here, because, having read Ben's story, it seems misplaced. Don't get me wrong, Ben's beliefs often strike me as misguided, but I feel like everyone is ganging up on him today.

 

[sojourner]

Social privilege? Don't even make me laugh. If that was true I would not had gone through hell for being handicap. Yes you heard me right handicap. I've been billed and made fun of my whole life fr being slow. Jo knows my story. She knows what I been through. So no I have never any damn privilege. I would not even know what that feels like

I've rethought my position here and retracted what I've posted. My apologies to you, Ben.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Ok, you're handicapped. I have two friends who are quadriplegic, three with significant brain damage, one that's post-stroke, two friends and one family member with Asperger's, a family member who's got Cerebral Palsy, one who's blind, and one with Down's. None of them display the kind of entitlement you've displayed here. Additionally, I have three family members who are gay and numerous gay friends, who've had to endure systemic, social shame and disenfranchisement their entire adult lives. Yeah, they're defensive. They have every excuse to be so. Your handicap doesn't give you cause to complain because Jo's being perceived as "defensive." Even with your handicap, that's not the same thing as social disenfranchisement, which is the issue of this thread. It's too bad you've been bullied because of your handicap -- no one should have to endure that, but you're still a member of the privileged majority. Heck, Roosevelt had Polio and Kennedy suffered from debilitating scoliosis. Everybody suffers from something.

You are so full of crap. That is all I got to say to you now.

 

[JustWondering]

Why is the bible homophobic

Because the MEN who wrote that into the bible were homophobic. The bible is a collection of mythological stories, IMO it shouldn't be used as a moral guide (or a guide for anything really).

 

[sojourner]

Take it easy, buddy. I don't think we should assume privilege here, because, having read Ben's story, it seems misplaced. Don't get me wrong, Ben's beliefs often strike me as misguided, but I feel like everyone is ganging up on him today.

I'm sorry for his setbacks and am probably being too hard on him. My sincere apologies to Ben. Still, his statement does illustrate how easy it is for the socially-privileged to underplay the marginalization of the social minorities.

 

[sojourner]

You are so full of crap. That is all I got to say to you now.

Please reread the post. I deleted the message and changed it. I'm patently wrong here.

 

[sojourner]

Take it easy, buddy. I don't think we should assume privilege here, because, having read Ben's story, it seems misplaced. Don't get me wrong, Ben's beliefs often strike me as misguided, but I feel like everyone is ganging up on him today.

Thanks for reining me in.