The Bible and Homosexuality

[sojourner]

What is not clear to you This thread is "Does the Bible say homosexuality is sin"
not wether its right, not wether the Bible is true not wether I eat shell fish, not anything else

And, as it has been quite effectively shown, it does not say that.

 

[sojourner]

So the only thing you got to support your claim that the OP is misrepresenting the Bible is:

Believe as I do and you will agree with me?
​

Yes exactly
Its all over the Bible that if someone doesnt want the truth God will give them over to believing a lie

The truths revealed about the texts in question are there for you to accept. Will you continue to allow God to "give you over to believing a lie?"

 

[McBell]

The truths revealed about the texts in question are there for you to accept. Will you continue to allow God to "give you over to believing a lie?"

what lie am I believing?

 

[oldbadger]

To Allright......... Have just returned after reading all of Matthew's book, as I said I would. But while I have been gone, you appear to have been ripped up somewhat. If you had felt strongly about, say, people eating oysters for breakfast, you could have dumped all the other laws in Leviticus and just fought on (blindly) in your prejudice against shellfish eaters, pointing out that that is the only issue. I am saddened by such extreme prejudice being exhibited by a claimed follower of Jesus. Your idea of heaven might not be what Jesus was (is?) proclaiming and advocating. All the best....... oldbadger

 

[sojourner]

what lie am I believing?

Not you -- the other guy. I guess it picked up your post, because of the way he copied it...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Not you -- the other guy. I guess it picked up your post, because of the way he copied it...

He's still working on the quote part so some of his posts have text from him and the other person mixed up. Happens to the best of us.

 

[idea]

Just for everyone's ref, homosexuality isn't just condemned in the OT...

Here are a few ref's

OT:
Gen. 19:5 bring them out unto us, that we may know them
Lev. 18:22 (20:13) Thou shalt not lie with mankind ... it is abomination
Deut. 23:17 there shall be no ... sodomite of the sons of Israel
Isa. 3:9 declare their sin as Sodom

NT:
Rom. 1:27 men ... burned in their lust one toward another
1 Cor. 6:9 nor abusers of themselves with mankind
1 Tim. 1:10 them that defile themselves with mankind
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrha ... going after strange flesh

See also Gen. 13:13; 18:20; Isa. 3:9; Ezek. 16:50; 2 Tim. 3:3; 2 Pet. 2:10; 2

 

[McBell]

Not you -- the other guy. I guess it picked up your post, because of the way he copied it...

ah.
that would explain it.

 

[Harmonious]

You can believe what you want. But what you can't do is act on those beliefs when those actions harm others.

What, in the name of all that's pink and fuzzy, would THAT consist of?

I already told you that I'm for gay rights. I already told you that I don't DO anything to show my objection.

What do you want from me? A blood-sworn oath that... I don't even know.

At this point, I'm rather worried about what you have in mind for ME for adhering to my beliefs, and I'm rather glad you are far enough away that you aren't much more than a personality and a name on the screen.

 

[Harmonious]

I agree.

Thank you.

 

[Harmonious]

Ok, allow me to repeat the question in yet another way in hopes of you finally coming to an understanding.

Why is your focus on Homosexuality where Leviticus is concerned? Why is that the only law you care about people breaking? If all of Leviticus is legitimate then shouldn't you be urging people to stay away from seafood restaurants and Poly-Cotton blends?

Linen-wool blends.

If you want to mock, at least do it right.

 

[InfidelRiot]

Even I am confused as to why Harmonious is being ill-treated in this thread. I understood many pages back that she was not using her beliefs in any way to infringe upon the right of legal marriage that homosexual couples deserve. She is free to believe as she does, but she is no way, directly or indirectly, causing harm to the homosexual equal rights movement.

 

[Harmonious]

Just for everyone's ref, homosexuality isn't just condemned in the OT...

Here are a few ref's

OT:
Gen. 19:5 bring them out unto us, that we may know them
Lev. 18:22 (20:13) Thou shalt not lie with mankind ... it is abomination
Deut. 23:17 there shall be no ... sodomite of the sons of Israel
Isa. 3:9 declare their sin as Sodom

NT:
Rom. 1:27 men ... burned in their lust one toward another
1 Cor. 6:9 nor abusers of themselves with mankind
1 Tim. 1:10 them that defile themselves with mankind
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrha ... going after strange flesh

See also Gen. 13:13; 18:20; Isa. 3:9; Ezek. 16:50; 2 Tim. 3:3; 2 Pet. 2:10; 2

While I agree with you in theory, in order to make your observations relevant to this thread, you should watch the video in the OP.

The man is a Christian, and he is a fantastic orator. And he addresses almost all of the verses you brought. He uses particularly the verses in the Christian scriptures to argue that Christians are NOT actually supposed to forbid homosexual marriages.

For the record, the verse you brought in Deuteronomy doesn't mention a "sodomite," but a male prostitute. There are many things that a male prostitute might do, and sodomy isn't the only thing covered by said job description.

 

[Harmonious]

Even I am confused as to why Harmonious is being ill-treated in this thread. I understood many pages back that she was not using her beliefs in any way to infringe upon the right of legal marriage that homosexual couples deserve. She is free to believe as she does, but she is no way, directly or indirectly, causing harm to the homosexual equal rights movement.

Thank you for noticing. And thank you for your support.

 

[Harmonious]

I'm not with the Westboro Baptists, condemning people, protesting their actions. I'm not being cruel and vicious, or tearing into people's rights. As a matter of fact, a few pages ago, I very much stated that I was FOR governmental rights of homosexuals.

I don't see why people on both sides have to make this an all-or-nothing proposition. I happen to exegete the passages that some say allude to an injunction against homosexuality differently than you do. But I respect your right to not agree with homosexuality for yourself, as a Jewish person -- so long as that disagreement doesn't seek to bind other people from doing what they feel is right for themselves.

Hmm.

On rereading this, I realized that it was very interesting to see WHICH line in my rather long post caught your eye. YOU noticed that I didn't want to be grouped together with the Westboro Baptists.

You never bothered to respond to THIS part of my post, even though you quoted it.

As a matter of fact, a few pages ago, I very much stated that I was FOR governmental rights of homosexuals.

You also chose to ignore THIS part of my post.

Do you want me to abandon my belief system because it doesn't permit certain behavior? It doesn't permit theft, murder, and cruelty to living animals, either. Should that also be allowed because someone decides that it is acceptable behavior? Should I agree that this behavior is permitted, without question or pause, to assuage someone else's sensibilities, because someone decides that it is acceptable?

Are you really concerned with the rights of homosexuals? Or are you more concerned with disallowing religions that have belief systems that forbid certain behaviors, just because someone else wishes they were different?

I wonder why you have distinctly disregarded anything I said which shows my SUPPORT FOR GAY RIGHTS and DEFENSE OF MY OWN BELIEFS and decided to go on a "so long as that disagreement doesn't seek to bind other people from doing what they feel is right for themselves" self-righteous rant.

Do YOU have an agenda here?

 

[Harmonious]

My belief system says that it is wrong. Full stop. Not just for me, but for anyone.

I also said that people who don't share my belief system will do what they want. I am allowed to believe they are wrong for acting against my belief system.

They have the right to do what they want. I have the right to believe that homosexual liaisons are sinful. I don't have to agree or even accept their decision.

I'm not allowed to stop them. As a decent human being, I wouldn't comment on it. My sister's sister-in-law is in a lesbian marriage, and they are happy. I don't say anything against them. I still think their union is sinful. I don't fuss about it, and I'm happy for their happiness and their child who is loved.

People have the right to believe my belief system is wrong. They have that right.

They don't have the right to assume that I'm violating anyone else's rights for simply holding my beliefs. I'm not controlling anyone. I'm not hurting anyone, and I'm not assuming anyone else has to adhere to my belief system.

Even though someone quoted this post and proceeded to ignore its contents, I figured it was better to simply repost what I said.

Maybe the people who are SO WORRIED about me INFRINGING on anyone else's rights will actually pay attention this time.

 

[allright]

and, as it has been quite effectively shown, it does not say that.

in your dreams

 

[Me Myself]

in your dreams

And reality.

Again, is it worst to sell your daugther as a slave or to eat shrimp? (consult the bible for yur answer)

 

[allright]

Just for everyone's ref, homosexuality isn't just condemned in the OT...

Here are a few ref's

OT:
Gen. 19:5 bring them out unto us, that we may know them
Lev. 18:22 (20:13) Thou shalt not lie with mankind ... it is abomination
Deut. 23:17 there shall be no ... sodomite of the sons of Israel
Isa. 3:9 declare their sin as Sodom

NT:
Rom. 1:27 men ... burned in their lust one toward another
1 Cor. 6:9 nor abusers of themselves with mankind
1 Tim. 1:10 them that defile themselves with mankind
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrha ... going after strange flesh

See also Gen. 13:13; 18:20; Isa. 3:9; Ezek. 16:50; 2 Tim. 3:3; 2 Pet. 2:10;

Excellent Post - Get ready for the onslaught

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Linen-wool blends.

If you want to mock, at least do it right.

Poly-Cotton is the modern equivalent and I was not mocking. I have repeatedly asked allright a question that he refuses to answer. Says a lot IMHO.