The Bible and Homosexuality

[fallingblood]

Jesus said "Heaven and earth will pass away before one dot of the law will become void"

The law "if a man lies with another man as with a woman it is an abomination"

So do you practice the various ceremonial laws and food laws? Or are you simply picking and choosing what you want?

Its false teaching trying to use human reason to nullify what the Bible clearly says
is sin.

Provide the verses.

 

[Rocky S]

The only "Christians" who would fall for this drivel were probably never serious Christians to begin with.
What God calls sin in the Old Testament is sin in the New and no amount of human
reasoning is going to change it.
And as for the argument its biological and cant be changed, theres a brother in my church who was as deep into homosexuality as you can get. He was a homosexual prostitue working the streets. He repented of his sin and received Jesus as his Lord annd Savior.
Hes been married now over 20 years with a beautiful wife and four children, the oldest just entering college and is as faithful a Christian as you will ever meet

Unfortunately a lot of people do not understand that. When one comes to the saving knowledge of Jesus, forgiveness and deliverance is given for this sin and all other sins.

 

[Curious George]

Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Thou shalt not lay with mankind as with womankind: It is abomination

καὶ μετὰ ἄρσενος οὐ κοιμηθήσῃ κοίτην γυναικός βδέλυγμα γάρ ἐστιν
how's your Hebrew? It is my understanding that Toevah is used in relation to idolotry. This is a strong argument linking Leviticus 18:22 with 18:21 "Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord."

When these passages are taken together it is more likely that Leviticus is speaking about prostitution in the shrines of false gods.

But this leads me to my point that unless you fluently speak the original language and have knowledge of the culture in that time period you are certainly not equipped to make bold statements. I would imagine even natural Hebrew speakers who have spent their entire lives studying ancient culture disagree on what this passage means.

But, that is not where my point ends. You said homosexuality. Homosexuality is very different than a man "laying" with another man. You cannot equate prostitution, intercourse, or even fooling around to homosexuality. You are making a categorical error in reasoning when doing this.

There is still more... According to many Christian beliefs Jesus died for the sins of mankind. In this he sacrificed himself in order to forge a new covenant. The old covenant belonged to the Israelite population. This new covenant extended to all people. With this new covenant came new rules. These rules were taught within Jesus' teachings. Thus, you would need to find Jesus' saying "Homosexuality is wrong" in order to be more certain.

But even then you would need to be able to read the original languages of the Gospels, understand the culture of the time period, and make sure you had all the books of the bible.

This last bit is of particular importance because the bible relays facts that are contradictory. And to be "certain" as you seem to be, you would need to make sure you fully understood the all of the Bible. Otherwise, your bold claims are no more supportable than someone who has read Genesis and tries to speak with certainty on either all of Jewish faith or all of Christian faith.

So again, I go back to my original question- what does the bible actually say? and how are you so sure you are right, and other interpretations are wrong?

 

[sojourner]

Its false teaching trying to use human reason to nullify what the Bible clearly says
is sin.

:biglaugh:


How do you think the translational process takes place???!!!

With human reason. Without human reason, you wouldn't have a bible to read.

Obviously, the exegesis shows that "what the bible says" is not so clear as some would like to think.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

The problem here is you dont like what the Bible says as clear as a pin. All sex outside the man woman marriage is sin

I had to repent of it when I became a Christian and so does anyone else who wants to become one.

And which of these Biblical marriages do you have?

 

[Rocky S]

And which of these Biblical marriages do you have?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

What? It's a legitimate question.

 

[allright]

Not at all. Reading the Bible in order to support intolerance of others is twisting the Bible. When Jesus and Paul stress that the greatest commandment is to love one another (or that is the whole of the law) and that we shouldn't judge others, to then go and discriminate others is perverting the Bible. You're only justifying your own hatred and intolerance.

Perverting the Bible to claim what God says is sin is really okay with him is worse than discrimination. its premediated eternal murder

Jesus doesnt excuse sin
Jesus "you are of your father the devil and your will is to do his will"
Jesus "you serpents , you brood of vipers how will you avoid the damnation of hell""
Lord will those saved be few Answer "Yes"
Paul "I warn you as I warned you before that those who do these things will not inherited the kingdom of God
Also trying reading Roman 1 & 2 and tell me Paul didnt warn and condemn sin

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Jesus doesnt excuse sin

I thought Jesus' entire reason for existing was to excuse us of our sins. :sarcastic

 

[Jainarayan]

Hes been married now over 20 years with a beautiful wife and four children, the oldest just entering college and is as faithful a Christian as you will ever meet

It's called 'Living A Lie, or How I Still Check Out A Guy's Butt in the Mall'.

 

[Jainarayan]

I totally support all the Bible and the laws

Not everyone does believes in the bible or the God of the bible, though. So the bible and its laws are not binding on us.

 

[Jainarayan]

and so does anyone else who wants to become one.

Been there, done that, didn't like it.

 

[allright]

It's called 'Living A Lie, or How I Still Check Out A Guy's Butt in the Mall'.

No its called being delivered from sin

 

[Jainarayan]

There are many gay and lesbian individuals who have raised families. They do so not because they are being true to themselves, but because other people are so intolerant that they have to lie to themselves. And many times, it ends up bad for everyone.

:clap

 

[waitasec]

Its false teaching trying to use human reason to nullify what the Bible clearly says
is sin.

and what rationale establishes the bible is correct...human reason
:biglaugh:

 

[Jainarayan]

Jesus said "Heaven and earth will pass away before one dot of the law will become void"

The law "if a man lies with another man as with a woman it is an abomination"

So you don't eat bacon double cheeseburgers? Get your hair cut and shave your beard? Wear poly/cotton blends (well, that right there is stonable)? Like peel 'n eat shrimp? Ham and swiss on rye? (that'll get a boulder thrown at you).

 

[fallingblood]

Perverting the Bible to claim what God says is sin is really okay with him is worse than discrimination. its premediated eternal murder

Perverting what I said, in order to make an asinine statement, is much worse then discrimination. Reading the Bible as a book that supports loving others, and not judging, that is Christ like.

Jesus doesnt excuse sin

He also says we are in no place to judge others, as we are also sinful.

Jesus "you are of your father the devil and your will is to do his will"
Jesus "you serpents , you brood of vipers how will you avoid the damnation of hell""

What? How does even relate to what we are saying? Or are you just making things up again?

Lord will those saved be few Answer "Yes"

The Lord also said love your neighbor as yourself. You clearly aren't doing that here.

Paul "I warn you as I warned you before that those who do these things will not inherited the kingdom of God
Also trying reading Roman 1 & 2 and tell me Paul didnt warn and condemn sin

I have actually read and written a research paper, for a class, on Romans 1 and 2. If you read Romans 2, Paul again tells us that we are all sinful. That we all have committed sin, and those "sins" that he listed in chapter 1, are the sins we also have committed. He then goes on to say that we are in no place to judge, as he has pointed out, we are just as flawed as those we try to condemn.

Really, you should actually read Romans before you start telling others to. And here is a good place to start:

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. (Romans 2:1)

So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? (Romans 2:3-4)

Basically, we are sinful. We shouldn't then judge others, as we are mere humans. And God is kind, and that kindness is intended to lead us to repent.

 

[InfidelRiot]

Oh yippee. Here we go again.

Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt. Grew up Christian, hated myself for my orientation. Begged, prayed, cried, repented again and again and again for courage, strength, and peace of mind as I sought to be straight. After 20 years of self-loathing and nearly putting a gun to my head in spite of countless hours in prayer, reading the Bible, and engaging in Bible study groups, I let it go and found a practice that works for me, gives me room to truly give and receive love, and helps me to forgive my transgressors.

Now that that's out on the table, I'm off to watch the video and will comment on the OP.

It is not surprising how many of us are driven to such desperate measures for fear of being ourselves as we were meant to be. IF god exists, he made us the way we are and he should be more concerned with the minds of serial killers than homosexuals. The problem is that most Christians claim to know god better than he knows himself, turning him into a monster through their belief that he hates exactly what it is that they hate. In the end, we all know that Jesus would not have been overly concerned with same-sex love. In fact, he was more concerned about overturning tables of the Pharisees. It is interesting that the majority of the conservative fundamentalists are republicans and that if Jesus were here today he would absolutely disagree with their way of thinking.

 

[Jainarayan]

No its called being delivered from sin

It's called being deep in the closet!

Let your mind be engrossed in Me. Offer worship to Me. Be resigned to Me. Beloved as you are of me, I pledge in truth you shall come to Me alone. Abandoning after sincere trial dependence on all human efforts at moral and spiritual upliftment, come to Me as the only Refuge. Grieve not; I will deliver you from all sins.

Now that's being delivered from sin!

 

[InfidelRiot]

Its false teaching trying to use human reason to nullify what the Bible clearly says
is sin.

In school, rather than be taught to think outside the box, students should be taught to think outside the holy bible.