The bible doesn't make sense

[FearGod]

I loved the explanation he gave and almost cried from laughter.

Maybe you will get the psychology of red when asking about animal blood sacrifices done to please God.

You are speaking out of ignorance.

Who told you that the sacrifice is for God ?

The sacrifice is to feed the poor and God is pleased with it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are entitled to your own opinion.

You find the quran verses as irrational whereas I see the bible verses to be meaningless and I believe that it was corrupted.

No need to be nervous, we are only debating here and I don't believe that my opinions will hurt your own belief.

What I understand that you believe that the quran is more irrational than the bible and I disagree with you, unless you can prove it in scientific way than bla..bla..bla

Actually, from what I've read of both, they seem about equally irrational.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Actually, from what I've read of both, they seem about equally irrational.

I have searched the scriptures of all the world -- in honest good faith and with extreme rationality -- and I have found that only my own humble writings make good sense and are without contradiction.

 

[FearGod]

Words of Jesus that contradict peace

Matthew 10

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

It is impossible for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 19

23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Pegg]

Words of Jesus that contradict peace

Matthew 10

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

It is impossible for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 19

23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

The writing of the bible was completed by the end of the first century. In the 7th Century Mohammad wrote the Quran... in it he stated this:

“And we gave [Jesus] the Evangel with its guidance and light, confirmatory of the preceding Law; a guidance and warning to those who fear God .*.*. And to thee we have sent down the Book of the [Koran] with truth, confirmatory of previous Scriptures, and their safeguard.”—Sura 5:50-52

So over 600 years after the bible was complete, Mohammad gets a revelation confirming to him that the previous scriptures/gospels were from God and had been safeguarded during that time.

So logically, if what you say is true, then any manuscript written AFTER the 7th century should show signs of tampering, right? Because Mohammed would not have had it confirmed if the gospel and injeel were already corrupted. So the corruption must have come after Mohammed time, right?

 

[Thana]

I'm sorry, I'm a stickler for accuracy.

Maybe say next time

"The Bible doesn't make sense to me"

Instead of the blantant phrase:

"The bible doesn't make sense"

Okay? Thanks so much

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Pfft - if you think the bible doesn't make any sense, try reading The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie sometime.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The writing of the bible was completed by the end of the first century. In the 7th Century Mohammad wrote the Quran... in it he stated this:

“And we gave [Jesus] the Evangel with its guidance and light, confirmatory of the preceding Law; a guidance and warning to those who fear God .*.*. And to thee we have sent down the Book of the [Koran] with truth, confirmatory of previous Scriptures, and their safeguard.”—Sura 5:50-52

So over 600 years after the bible was complete, Mohammad gets a revelation confirming to him that the previous scriptures/gospels were from God and had been safeguarded during that time.

So logically, if what you say is true, then any manuscript written AFTER the 7th century should show signs of tampering, right? Because Mohammed would not have had it confirmed if the gospel and injeel were already corrupted. So the corruption must have come after Mohammed time, right?

You are correct. Quran does not teach Gospel or Torah are corrupted. I believe this is an idea the Muslim leaders invented later.
Quran in many verses says, the Christians and Jews misinterpreted the Text, taking it out of context. So, corruption as in misinterpretation and mistranslation, and not the Actual Holy Book.

 

[freethinker44]

Pfft - if you think the bible doesn't make any sense, try reading The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie sometime.

That was a hard book to follow. There is so much going on in that book.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Considering that the Qur'an is a compiled book of theological gibberish I am just astonished that you would say this. This book literally requires commentators to interpret it and would not have existed without thanks to the tafsir. It is not even in a koiné language like Greek when compiled.

This is just a sad story of the MAC making fun of the PC lol

 

[Pegg]

You are correct. Quran does not teach Gospel or Torah are corrupted. I believe this is an idea the Muslim leaders invented later.
Quran in many verses says, the Christians and Jews misinterpreted the Text, taking it out of context. So, corruption as in misinterpretation and mistranslation, and not the Actual Holy Book.

yes, i agree.

Do you think that this indicates that muslims should be reading the bible and learning from its prophets?

 

[FearGod]

The writing of the bible was completed by the end of the first century. In the 7th Century Mohammad wrote the Quran... in it he stated this:

“And we gave [Jesus] the Evangel with its guidance and light, confirmatory of the preceding Law; a guidance and warning to those who fear God .*.*. And to thee we have sent down the Book of the [Koran] with truth, confirmatory of previous Scriptures, and their safeguard.”—Sura 5:50-52

So over 600 years after the bible was complete, Mohammad gets a revelation confirming to him that the previous scriptures/gospels were from God and had been safeguarded during that time.

So logically, if what you say is true, then any manuscript written AFTER the 7th century should show signs of tampering, right? Because Mohammed would not have had it confirmed if the gospel and injeel were already corrupted. So the corruption must have come after Mohammed time, right?

God's laws are preserved in the scriptures no doubt about this fact but we believe that many verses which is meaningless and irrational have been added by men to the scriptures.

What is the difference between atheism and Christianity regarding God's law.

Christians don't follow God's law because they believe about the inherited sin and that faith on Jesus and his sacrifice is their way for salvation.

Atheists don't follow God's law because they don't believe that God does exist.

For example, Adultery or sexual activities before marriage. is one among others.

Say: "O followers of the Bible! You have no valid ground for your beliefs unless you [truly] observe the Torah and the Gospel, and all that has been bestowed from on high upon you by your Sustainer!" Yet all that has been bestowed from on high upon thee [O Prophet] by thy Sustainer is bound to make many of them yet more stubborn in their overweening arrogance and in their denial of the truth. But sorrow not over people who deny the truth: (5:68)

And lo! there is a party of them who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say: It is from God, when it is not from God and they speak a lie concerning God knowingly. (3:78)

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, Three. Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him -- That He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian. (4:171)

 

[Pegg]

God's laws are preserved in the scriptures no doubt about this fact but we believe that many verses which is meaningless and irrational have been added by men to the scriptures.

What is the difference between atheism and Christianity regarding God's law.

Christians don't follow God's law because they believe about the inherited sin and that faith on Jesus and his sacrifice is their way for salvation.

Atheists don't follow God's law because they don't believe that God does exist.

For example, Adultery or sexual activities before marriage. is one among others.

Say: "O followers of the Bible! You have no valid ground for your beliefs unless you [truly] observe the Torah and the Gospel, and all that has been bestowed from on high upon you by your Sustainer!" Yet all that has been bestowed from on high upon thee [O Prophet] by thy Sustainer is bound to make many of them yet more stubborn in their overweening arrogance and in their denial of the truth. But sorrow not over people who deny the truth: (5:68)

And lo! there is a party of them who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say: It is from God, when it is not from God and they speak a lie concerning God knowingly. (3:78)

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, Three. Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him -- That He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian. (4:171)

God does not force people to abide by his laws. He gives everyone a choice.

If a someone who is a christian chooses not to follow the laws of christianity, he will have his judgement from God in Gods due time.

But this doesnt mean that the bible is corrupted. The bible upholds the laws of God...no one came and changed those laws. Adultery laws are still in there.

So where is the 'corruption' of the bible? People corrupt 'themselves' but they have not corrupted nor changed the bible and many christians are living by the laws therein.

 

[FearGod]

God does not force people to abide by his laws. He gives everyone a choice.

If a someone who is a christian chooses not to follow the laws of christianity, he will have his judgement from God in Gods due time.

But this doesnt mean that the bible is corrupted. The bible upholds the laws of God...no one came and changed those laws. Adultery laws are still in there.

So where is the 'corruption' of the bible? People corrupt 'themselves' but they have not corrupted nor changed the bible and many christians are living by the laws therein.

I said laws are preserved in the scriptures, but there are an irrational verses which is a man made ones, that what we believe as Muslims but of course everyone has his own belief and choice.

 

[Pegg]

I said laws are preserved in the scriptures, but there are an irrational verses which is a man made ones, that what we believe as Muslims but of course everyone has his own belief and choice.

irrational verses such as a man who divorces his wife and remarries commits adultery?

is this one of the irrational verses you are referring to?

 

[FearGod]

irrational verses such as a man who divorces his wife and remarries commits adultery?

is this one of the irrational verses you are referring to?

Yes, one among others.

Not all marriages are successful ones.

So to accuse a 2nd marriage to be an adultery is irrational.

What if it happened that the man was so rude with his wife and she wanted to be divorced ?

If she found another man who will be so kind with her as husband,then how it described as an adultery.

 

[Pegg]

Yes, one among others.

Not all marriages are successful ones.

So to accuse a 2nd marriage to be an adultery is irrational.

What if it happened that the man was so rude with his wife and she wanted to be divorced ?

If she found another man who will be so kind with her as husband,then how it described as an adultery.

Im sure you'd agree that before we can judge any verse in the bible, or anywhere else, we first need to know why the statement was made.

The reason why Jesus made that statement is because he was alluding to the fact that men in his day were divorcing their wives unjustly...ie, they would divorce their wives simply for burning the dinner! They were dealing unjustly with their wives. Gods prophet Malachi expressed exactly the same thought that Jesus did....

Malachi 2:13*“And this is the second thing that YOU people do, [this resulting in] covering with tears the altar of Jehovah, with weeping and sighing,...Jehovah himself has borne witness between you and the wife of your youth, with whom you yourself have dealt treacherously, although she is your partner and the wife of your covenant. ...And YOU people must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and with the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously. 16*For he has hated a divorcing,”
.

So Jesus words to the men of his day is exactly what the Prophet told the men in his own day... God HATES divorce! He created man and woman to remain a couple...they were to become 'one' flesh. God never wanted a husband and wife to separate. We separate and divorce because of imperfection and sinfulness.

So when the men in Jesus day questioned him about divorce, Jesus reiterated Gods feelings to them. He wanted them to know that God hates divorce because when we know this, we can strive to please God by living in harmony with the righteousness of God. He hates to see wives being dealt with treacherously. God wants men to deal justly with their wives and he expects them to love their wives and remain faithful to them.

If a man has sex with more then one women, he is an adulterer...and so is a woman who has sex with more then one man. Thats Gods view of it because he expects a man and woman to stay together and not separate and adultery means to have sex with someone 'other then' your wife or husband.

Do you think its right for a man to treat his wife so badly that she should want to leave him? Or should he want to leave her because she is a bad cook or maybe she could not conceive a child or maybe she got too fat.... is it right to divorce her because of such things?

 

[FearGod]

Im sure you'd agree that before we can judge any verse in the bible, or anywhere else, we first need to know why the statement was made.

If we have the evidence that it was made for a reason.

The reason why Jesus made that statement is because he was alluding to the fact that men in his day were divorcing their wives unjustly...ie, they would divorce their wives simply for burning the dinner! They were dealing unjustly with their wives. Gods prophet Malachi expressed exactly the same thought that Jesus did....

The bible can clearly say divorcing your wife unjustifiably and marrying another woman is illegal and marrying another is an adultery.

But to say it without mentioning any reasons isn't rational.

Malachi 2:13*“And this is the second thing that YOU people do, [this resulting in] covering with tears the altar of Jehovah, with weeping and sighing,...Jehovah himself has borne witness between you and the wife of your youth, with whom you yourself have dealt treacherously, although she is your partner and the wife of your covenant. ...And YOU people must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and with the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously. 16*For he has hated a divorcing,”

.
You can't force 2 persons to love each others if they really don't.

So Jesus words to the men of his day is exactly what the Prophet told the men in his own day... God HATES divorce! He created man and woman to remain a couple...they were to become 'one' flesh. God never wanted a husband and wife to separate. We separate and divorce because of imperfection and sinfulness.

As i said it can be made clear in the bible that divorcing unjustifiably is a great sin and hence marrying again is an adultery.

So when the men in Jesus day questioned him about divorce, Jesus reiterated Gods feelings to them. He wanted them to know that God hates divorce because when we know this, we can strive to please God by living in harmony with the righteousness of God. He hates to see wives being dealt with treacherously. God wants men to deal justly with their wives and he expects them to love their wives and remain faithful to them.

Good that you know the feelings of Jesus at those times.
Did Jesus tell you such facts in your dreams ?

If a man has sex with more then one women, he is an adulterer...and so is a woman who has sex with more then one man. Thats Gods view of it because he expects a man and woman to stay together and not separate and adultery means to have sex with someone 'other then' your wife or husband.

But sins are forgiven by your faith and Jesus sacrificed by killing himself for you,so no problem with adultery,people always do sins,it is inherited,right.

Do you think its right for a man to treat his wife so badly that she should want to leave him? Or should he want to leave her because she is a bad cook or maybe she could not conceive a child or maybe she got too fat.... is it right to divorce her because of such things?

And if his wife was a playgirl , a lair and not caring about her husband and she loved another guy and spent days outside house, divorcing her and marrying another woman is an adultery.

Thats why i believe that the bible was corrupted.

God is much wiser than this.

i disagree with your reasoning.

Hope that you can find answers for the rest of verses that i have mentioned.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

yes, i agree.

Do you think that this indicates that muslims should be reading the bible and learning from its prophets?

For sure. Quran teaches progressive Revelations. Each Age has its Book revealed for people of that Age.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I said laws are preserved in the scriptures, but there are an irrational verses which is a man made ones, that what we believe as Muslims but of course everyone has his own belief and choice.

Let me ask you some questions, because I think if you reply to these questions, you get an answer as to why some of the Laws do not make sense without saying the Book got corrupted.
Question: According to Quran, when the Jews did not keep the Sabbath Law, God told them: "Be Apes". So the Question is, why God does not say "Be Ape" to Muslims for not keeping the Sabbath Law? Second Question: Do you think it is reasonable that just for working on Sabbath Day God tells them "Be Ape"?
Third Question: are the Muslims required to keep the Sabbath? If not, why God asked the Jews before?