The bible doesn't make sense

[FearGod]

The quran is one of the most vauge backgrounds in the history of abrahamic literature. There is no authenticity behind having peoplewrite down and memorize it and then claiming it had never been changed or edited. I know the bible is a fairytale tale. That is a fact. But to claim that quran is any better is a outright lie. I don't get why the bible gets trashed, even though it's just a fiction book, but the quran gets a pass because of the violent nature of adherents and their physical assaults on anyone who question the book throughout history.

your comment was that the contradictions in the bible is the same as in the quran.

Please list them here.

 

[iamsharky789]

your comment was that the contradictions in the bible is the same as in the quran.

Please list them here.

This is copy/paste list. I got it from Contradictions / Difficulties in the Qur'an. I think it is a good starting point for a very overrated book.

Internal Contradictions:
According to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim:

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall

This is contradicted by both the Quran and various Islamic traditions which refer to the presence of true believers both before and during Muhammad’s alleged "call" to prophethood. The Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., were all believers and many of them even messengers who lived a long time before Muhammad:

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."… And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."… When learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. S. 2:30, 34-35, 37

We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms. S. 4:163

We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: S. 6:84

And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing: Our Lord! and make us both submissive (muslimayni) to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting (ommatan muslimatan) to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous. When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim (aslim), he said: I submit myself (aslamtu) to the Lord of the worlds. And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims (illa waantum muslimoona). Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit (wanahnu lahu muslimoona). S. 2:127-133 Shakir

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. S. 3:52

Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim (musliman), and he was not one of the polytheists. S. 3:67 Shakir

 

[FearGod]

This is copy/paste list. I got it from Contradictions / Difficulties in the Qur'an. I think it is a good starting point for a very overrated book.

Internal Contradictions:
According to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim:

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall

This is contradicted by both the Quran and various Islamic traditions which refer to the presence of true believers both before and during Muhammad’s alleged "call" to prophethood. The Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., were all believers and many of them even messengers who lived a long time before Muhammad:

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."… And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."… When learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. S. 2:30, 34-35, 37

We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms. S. 4:163

We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: S. 6:84

And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing: Our Lord! and make us both submissive (muslimayni) to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting (ommatan muslimatan) to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous. When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim (aslim), he said: I submit myself (aslamtu) to the Lord of the worlds. And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims (illa waantum muslimoona). Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit (wanahnu lahu muslimoona). S. 2:127-133 Shakir

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. S. 3:52

Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim (musliman), and he was not one of the polytheists. S. 3:67 Shakir

Thanx for your sharing.

The answer is very simple.

If it says "the first man to submit to God(Muslim) on earth then i'll agree with you, but it is clear that it says he is the first to submit for that period of time (the 7th century)

Compare it to this verse

AND [remember] Lot, when he said unto his people: "Will you commit abominations such as none in all the world has ever done before you? (7:80)

You can realize that God made it clear that "Lot's people" were the first on earth to perform homosexuality.

 

[Sees]

Thanx for your sharing.

The answer is very simple.

If it says "the first man to submit to God(Muslim) on earth then i'll agree with you, but it is clear that it says he is the first to submit for that period of time (the 7th century)

Compare it to this verse

AND [remember] Lot, when he said unto his people: "Will you commit abominations such as none in all the world has ever done before you? (7:80)

You can realize that God made it clear that "Lot's people" were the first on earth to perform homosexuality.

What about this, is this a change of policy?

4:48 "Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed,"

4:153 "The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority,"

 

[FearGod]

What about this, is this a change of policy?

4:48 "Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed,"

4:153 "The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority,"

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَغْفِرُ أَنْ يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَٰلِكَ لِمَنْ يَشَاءُ وَمَنْ يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَىٰ إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا
VERILY, God does not forgive the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him, although He forgives any lesser sin unto whomever He wills: for he who ascribes divinity to aught beside God has indeed contrived an awesome sin. (4:48)


يَسْأَلُكَ أَهْلُ الْكِتَابِ أَنْ تُنَزِّلَ عَلَيْهِمْ كِتَابًا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فَقَدْ سَأَلُوا مُوسَىٰ أَكْبَرَ مِنْ ذَٰلِكَ فَقَالُوا أَرِنَا اللَّهَ جَهْرَةً فَأَخَذَتْهُمُ الصَّاعِقَةُ بِظُلْمِهِمْ ثُمَّ اتَّخَذُوا الْعِجْلَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ فَعَفَوْنَا عَنْ ذَٰلِكَ وَآتَيْنَا مُوسَىٰ سُلْطَانًا مُبِينًا

THE FOLLOWERS of the Old Testament demand of thee [O Prophet] that thou cause a revelation to be sent down to them from heaven. And an even greater thing than this did they demand of Moses when they said, "Make us see God face to face" – whereupon the thunderbolt of punishment overtook them for this their wickedness. After that, they took to worshipping the [golden] calf – and this after all evidence of the truth had come unto them! None the less, We effaced this [sin of theirs], and vouchsafed unto Moses a clear proof [of the truth], (4:153)

Thanks for your sharing.

The answer is very simple.

In verse (4:48) the word يُشْرَكَ بِهِ means to accompany or associate someone else besides God to be as the creator,ruler,owner ....etc for this universe.

Verse (4:153) as worshipping a cow then the cow is an animal that can never be thought to be the creator,ruler,owner for this universe.

You can worship money,goat,cow.....etc but all of those things are understood not to own,control,create this universe.

God is wise indeed.

 

[Pastek]

What about this, is this a change of policy?

4:48 "Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed,"

4:153 "The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority,"

Because they asked God to forgive them.

7.149 And when regret overcame them and they saw that they had gone astray, they said, "If our Lord does not have mercy upon us and forgive us, we will surely be among the losers."

The verse 2.54 say the same thing, they reconized their error.
So if you repent before you die, God will forgive you.
The majority of people in the arabic peninsula were also polytheists, of course God forgave them once they became muslim.

 

[Sees]

Because they asked God to forgive them.

7.149 And when regret overcame them and they saw that they had gone astray, they said, "If our Lord does not have mercy upon us and forgive us, we will surely be among the losers."

The verse 2.54 say the same thing, they reconized their error.
So if you repent before you die, God will forgive you.
The majority of people in the arabic peninsula were also polytheists, of course God forgave them once they became muslim.

Where does it say shirk is forgiven if you repent before you die?

 

[Sees]

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَغْفِرُ أَنْ يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَٰلِكَ لِمَنْ يَشَاءُ وَمَنْ يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَىٰ إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا
VERILY, God does not forgive the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him, although He forgives any lesser sin unto whomever He wills: for he who ascribes divinity to aught beside God has indeed contrived an awesome sin. (4:48)


يَسْأَلُكَ أَهْلُ الْكِتَابِ أَنْ تُنَزِّلَ عَلَيْهِمْ كِتَابًا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ فَقَدْ سَأَلُوا مُوسَىٰ أَكْبَرَ مِنْ ذَٰلِكَ فَقَالُوا أَرِنَا اللَّهَ جَهْرَةً فَأَخَذَتْهُمُ الصَّاعِقَةُ بِظُلْمِهِمْ ثُمَّ اتَّخَذُوا الْعِجْلَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ فَعَفَوْنَا عَنْ ذَٰلِكَ وَآتَيْنَا مُوسَىٰ سُلْطَانًا مُبِينًا

THE FOLLOWERS of the Old Testament demand of thee [O Prophet] that thou cause a revelation to be sent down to them from heaven. And an even greater thing than this did they demand of Moses when they said, "Make us see God face to face" – whereupon the thunderbolt of punishment overtook them for this their wickedness. After that, they took to worshipping the [golden] calf – and this after all evidence of the truth had come unto them! None the less, We effaced this [sin of theirs], and vouchsafed unto Moses a clear proof [of the truth], (4:153)

Thanks for your sharing.

The answer is very simple.

In verse (4:48) the word يُشْرَكَ بِهِ means to accompany or associate someone else besides God to be as the creator,ruler,owner ....etc for this universe.

Verse (4:153) as worshipping a cow then the cow is an animal that can never be thought to be the creator,ruler,owner for this universe.

You can worship money,goat,cow.....etc but all of those things are understood not to own,control,create this universe.

God is wise indeed.

You are saying their worship of the calf wasn't serious enough to be unforgivable?

 

[FearGod]

You are saying their worship of the calf wasn't serious enough to be unforgivable?

According to Islam God sent his laws and commandments through his messengers which we should follow, it isn't about how God looks like or where he is living now.

Worshiping calf, cow or any materialist things has no effect on God's laws.

One example for Shirk in Islam is to regard Jesus as God or sharing any one with him for God is only one and nothing is compatible to him, of course God isn't talking about the calf because that is incomparable.

God never called who worshipped the materialistic things (Idols) as shirk but as astray.

And when Abraham said to his father Azar, Takest thou idols for gods? I see thee, and thy people, in manifest error. (6:74)

So with proof we can realize that idol's worshippers weren't called as shirk but in error and lost.

Ye serve instead of Allah only idols, and ye only invent a lie. Lo! those whom ye serve instead of Allah own no provision for you. So seek your provision from Allah, and serve Him, and give thanks unto Him, (for) unto Him ye will be brought back. (29:17)

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. (5:90)

No where I can see worshipping such materialistic things to be shirk but is astray and kind of ignorance.

Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him). (3:64)

So as we can see from verse (3:64) that worshipping wasn't the same as shirk, both are different things.

 

[Pastek]

Where does it say shirk is forgiven if you repent before you die?

Before i quote the verses i want to say that it was the majority of people who used to be polytheists. If you can't be saved even if you repent then there's a problem as God is called the One who accept the repent (El Ghafour).

Then what's the use of the prophets then if there's no hope of forgiveness ?

So here the verses :

6.54 (...) "Peace be upon you. Your Lord has decreed upon Himself mercy: that any of you who does wrong out of ignorance and then repents after that and corrects himself - indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful."

4.17 The repentance accepted by Allah is only for those who do wrong in ignorance [or carelessness] and then repent soon after.

4.18 But repentance is not [accepted] of those who [continue to] do evil deeds up until, when death comes to one of them, he says, "Indeed, I have repented now," or of those who die while they are disbelievers.


So as long as you are alive you can repent.

 

[Sees]

Before i quote the verses i want to say that it was the majority of people who used to be polytheists. If you can't be saved even if you repent then there's a problem as God is called the One who accept the repent (El Ghafour).

Then what's the use of the prophets then if there's no hope of forgiveness ?

So here the verses :

6.54 (...) "Peace be upon you. Your Lord has decreed upon Himself mercy: that any of you who does wrong out of ignorance and then repents after that and corrects himself - indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful."

4.17 The repentance accepted by Allah is only for those who do wrong in ignorance [or carelessness] and then repent soon after.

4.18 But repentance is not [accepted] of those who [continue to] do evil deeds up until, when death comes to one of them, he says, "Indeed, I have repented now," or of those who die while they are disbelievers.


So as long as you are alive you can repent.

I understand you can repent and be forgiven but the forst verse I quoted is saying shirk is not forgivable. Saying it is forgivable when still alive seems what people read into it for it to make sense. That's what people do. If a scripture says two things people make the rationale for it to be an agreeable one with proper interpretation.

 

[Sees]

According to Islam God sent his laws and commandments through his messengers which we should follow, it isn't about how God looks like or where he is living now.

Worshiping calf, cow or any materialist things has no effect on God's laws.

One example for Shirk in Islam is to regard Jesus as God or sharing any one with him for God is only one and nothing is compatible to him, of course God isn't talking about the calf because that is incomparable.

God never called who worshipped the materialistic things (Idols) as shirk but as astray.

And when Abraham said to his father Azar, Takest thou idols for gods? I see thee, and thy people, in manifest error. (6:74)

So with proof we can realize that idol's worshippers weren't called as shirk but in error and lost.

Ye serve instead of Allah only idols, and ye only invent a lie. Lo! those whom ye serve instead of Allah own no provision for you. So seek your provision from Allah, and serve Him, and give thanks unto Him, (for) unto Him ye will be brought back. (29:17)

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. (5:90)

No where I can see worshipping such materialistic things to be shirk but is astray and kind of ignorance.

Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him). (3:64)

So as we can see from verse (3:64) that worshipping wasn't the same as shirk, both are different things.

I wouldn't ever think to see a Muslim say idolatry is not shirk

I know you don't like hadith and think Islam is the Qur'an only, but you can't help but use certain interpretations. I don't think idoltary is little or hidden shirk traditionally.

 

[Pastek]

I understand you can repent and be forgiven but the forst verse I quoted is saying shirk is not forgivable. Saying it is forgivable when still alive seems what people read into it for it to make sense. That's what people do. If a scripture says two things people make the rationale for it to be an agreeable one with proper interpretation.

Ok i see what you mean. I just always understood it like that, thinking it's logical that shirk is forgiven when we are still alive as the majority of people in earth used to be polytheists.

 

[Pegg]

For sure. Quran teaches progressive Revelations. Each Age has its Book revealed for people of that Age.

unfortunately what we see in the Quran is not a progressive move forward, but a falling back into old customs and habits.

Christ did away with polygamy for example. Christians upheld monogamy as the standard for husbands and wives to live by... but 700 years later the quran reverts back to the old practice of polygamy.
Jesus also put an end to war with his laws about 'love your enemy' and 'do not fight back' those fighting you. But Quran permits the actions of war and even calls for such actions as Jihad.

thats not progressive revelation...thats regressive.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

unfortunately what we see in the Quran is not a progressive move forward, but a falling back into old customs and habits.

Christ did away with polygamy for example. Christians upheld monogamy as the standard for husbands and wives to live by... but 700 years later the quran reverts back to the old practice of polygamy.

Jesus did not command that there must not be polygamy. So, for example, in case of divorce, He boldly condemned divorcing wives for wrong reasons. But in case of Polygamy He did not condemn it. Jesus alluded in favor of Monogamy. Muhammad likewise taught in Quran that Monogamy is better.

Jesus also put an end to war with his laws about 'love your enemy' and 'do not fight back' those fighting you. But Quran permits the actions of war and even calls for such actions as Jihad.

Jesus taught Love, but He did not put an end to war.
Muhammad also taught of love and said if one kills a Man, He has killed entire humanity. But He had to defend against those who were killing and persecuting Muslims. That is not regress.

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors." Quran 5:32

But if we look at History, during the first few centuries, Muhammad's Revelation was the cause of enlightenment and progress for the Arabs and even others. The Quran corrects many of the misinterpretations of Bible.

 

[Pegg]

Jesus did not command that there must not be polygamy. So, for example, in case of divorce, He boldly condemned divorcing wives for wrong reasons. But in case of Polygamy He did not condemn it. Jesus alluded in favor of Monogamy. Muhammad likewise taught in Quran that Monogamy is better.

The christian view was that to marry more then one woman would amount to adultery...and thats why they banned the practice for anyone who wished to be in a position of responsibility in the congregation.

Those men had to be setting the right example. They had to be husbands of 'one' wife otherwise they could not be appointed at all. And this is why every western nation with a christian heritage are monogamous by law.

Jesus taught Love, but He did not put an end to war.
Muhammad also taught of love and said if one kills a Man, He has killed entire humanity. But He had to defend against those who were killing and persecuting Muslims. That is not regress.

Christians certainly viewed Jesus teachings as putting an end to war. They would refuse to join the military and this is a noted fact about early christianity.

But in the quran we find suras such as Nos. 2, 3, 8, etc., containing admonition to engage in war and rebuking those who failed to do so.

But if we look at History, during the first few centuries, Muhammad's Revelation was the cause of enlightenment and progress for the Arabs and even others. The Quran corrects many of the misinterpretations of Bible.

well any superior laws in during the dark ages would certainly have been enlightening...to that i'd agree.

But in terms of the understanding of the nature of God and of what he requires of us, my personal opinion is no, I dont think the Quran is all that enlightening.

 

[McBell]

The christian view was that to marry more then one woman would amount to adultery...and thats why they banned the practice for anyone who wished to be in a position of responsibility in the congregation.

Actually, church leaders practicing polygamy was costing the church to much money.
that is why it suddenly got banned.

 

[SkylarHunter]

The Bible is not easy to understand and it can't be read like a novel. You should take into account that the Bible was written by many different people over a very long period of time. They all came from different backgrounds and had different styles. You also need to consider that there are things in the Bible that are literal and others that are metaphors. For example if you read the beginning of Genesis you might think God created the earth in six days, which doesn't make any sense but as you continue to read the Bible you will learn that while for us a day is 24h, for God it's a period of time and that can be a very long time, it's doesn't mean 6 days of 24 hours. And there are many other things like this.
Also, consider the context. If you read two or three verses without knowing the context you might understand something different than what was meant.
I've been studying the Bible for a long time and I'm still far from understanding everything but there are two things I that really changed my life for the better. I found a lot of practical wisdom that I try to apply in my life, and the bible gives me a hope for the future that I couldn't find anywhere else. That alone makes it well worth studying the Bible.

 

[Pegg]

Actually, church leaders practicing polygamy was costing the church to much money.
that is why it suddenly got banned.

what church would that be?

there was no established 'church' as such when the christian scriptures were written.

I dont know exactly what you are referring to, but im referring to the practices of Christs apostles and first century disciples.

 

[McBell]

what church would that be?

there was no established 'church' as such when the christian scriptures were written.

I dont know exactly what you are referring to, but im referring to the practices of Christs apostles and first century disciples.

And I am talking about when polygamy was banned from the leadership of the church.
Same as why some denominations took it a step further and banned church leaders from getting married at all.

Now since JW is rather new to the Christian scene, you will have to look at the history not only before the JW, but also that history you will most likely not want to acknowledge.