The Biden Question

[icehorse]

Something those on the "resign" side should consider: No President runs the country by themselves, nor do they make decisions in a vacuum. They have advisors and Secretaries, all of whom have hundreds of supporters. The President, more often than not, merely chooses what he thinks are the best offerings of this large team.

Now, it is clear that Biden has surrounded himself with a very competent team -- his record in office shows that (only for those who will actually look at the record, instead of what Fox says it is). What did we see of those Trump surrounded himself with, especially in his last days (but even in the early days, when he was appointing and unappointing people at warp speed)? And who do we think he will surround himself with if he wins? Clever, independent thinkers, or toady's who will swear to do his bidding?

Biden should not resign.

I agree that Biden's team would do a good job in a second term.

But the problem is that the public perception is what counts in terms of getting him re-elected.

 

[Pogo]

Something those on the "resign" side should consider: No President runs the country by themselves, nor do they make decisions in a vacuum. They have advisors and Secretaries, all of whom have hundreds of supporters. The President, more often than not, merely chooses what he thinks are the best offerings of this large team.

Now, it is clear that Biden has surrounded himself with a very competent team -- his record in office shows that (only for those who will actually look at the record, instead of what Fox says it is). What did we see of those Trump surrounded himself with, especially in his last days (but even in the early days, when he was appointing and unappointing people at warp speed)? And who do we think he will surround himself with if he wins? Clever, independent thinkers, or toady's who will swear to do his bidding?

Biden should not resign.

Disagree, Biden should forcefully hand off to Harris and some battleground state governor and then loudly go on the attack of Trump, 2025, the SC and the dysfunctional Congress. Make this not about Biden's competence but the necessity of putting new leadership in place that will tackle real issues that actually affect the people. Make daily headlines about Trumps lies and what will happen if he is elected. Need to change the game plan for the second half, It may be nil nil now, but the shots the object (take your pick) has spent too much time in our half. we need to score.

 

[sun rise]

The pile-on comments are to me a big pile of horse pucky. He had a bad day and some people who know better have bought in to the MAGA lies about him and are going nutso-panicking.

There is, for example, at least one poll that shows the race basically the same and another showing that all but one of the alternatives have a worse chance againt the criminal compared to Biden.

It seems that the right does not care if the criminal can't speak coherently etc but the left panics at a bad day. Both are way way way off base.

Historian who predicted 9 of the last 10 election results says Democrats shouldn't drop Joe Biden​

Debate performance, however, is not one of the factors that determines the outcome of an election, he argued. Lichtman pointed to historical examples, including the 1984 election in which former President Ronald Reagan swept 49 states despite poor debate performances and concerns over his age.

“Debate performances can be overcome,” he said. “At the first sign of adversity the spineless Democrats want to throw under the bus, their own incumbent president. My goodness.”

 

[Watchmen]

Can you paint a scenario in which, if Biden stood down, the Democrats could find, nominate and successfully sell another candidate in the 4 months left before the election?

Granted, the party has a process in place for how it could be done (finding a replacement). Under the existing rule, Democratic National Committee Chair Jamie Harrison would name a new nominee, in consultation with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, D-N.Y., and Democratic Governors Association Chair Tim Walz of Minnesota. Their choice would be presented to DNC members — a group of party leaders much smaller and more elite than the delegates to the convention — for ratification or rejection.

And this group of elites would present their nominee to the committed delegates Biden has already won, and naturally they will all think, "Oh, how clever of our overlords -- how could we have been so stupid?" (Out of interest, Biden has won nearly 4,000 delegates, Trump 2,265.)

And then there's selling this new person -- with no record to run on -- as being so much better than Trump, who has at least served a term in the White House.

In my view, Biden's resignation would hand the election to the fascist. In a landslide.

100% disagree. The debate is handing Trump a landslide victory. A fresh candidate, something everyone desperately wants, would be a ball of fire that won’t be contained and Trump would be on the losing end.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I wonder if anyone remembers that after Woodrow Wilson (rated 13th best President) suffered a stroke and that his wife essentially ran the White House for the remainder of his second term.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

100% disagree. The debate is handing Trump a landslide victory. A fresh candidate, something everyone desperately wants, would be a ball of fire that won’t be contained and Trump would be on the losing end.

Okay, assume you are correct. Unless Kamala Harris is the first and last name out of everyone's mouth, how do you think the Democrats will hold onto the black vote they have, while changing the rules under their noses?

And do you really think Kamala Harris can win over the electorate? She is not much of an orator herself, and while she may have been Biden's VP, this administration's accomplish belong to him, and she'll fail to convince the nation that she's as much owner of it as he is.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And do you really think Kamala Harris can win over the electorate?

At least one poll shows her doing slightly better than Biden.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

At least one poll shows her doing slightly better than Biden.

There will be months of campaign events, and she will be speaking most. Doesn't bode well, in my opinion.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

To me, this thread shouldn't even really be about "the Biden question," but rather "the existential question of the U.S." Because I truly think that is what is at stake. And for that reason, the one and only real issue is "how can Donald Trump be prevented from winning the election?" Because if he wins, and given both his record and the new immunities granted by the Supreme Court, he will be able in just 4 short years to make the nation "post-constitutional."

Does anybody really want to go there?

So who, in just 4 months, can a) gain the nomination, b) make him/herself known to the American people across the land, c) prepare and present a platform that can win approval of the majority of Americans, and d) win a plurality of votes and 270+ electoral votes?

Name names, and give your opinion about the their strengths, weaknesses and likely acceptability to the majority.

 

[Watchmen]

Okay, assume you are correct. Unless Kamala Harris is the first and last name out of everyone's mouth, how do you think the Democrats will hold onto the black vote they have, while changing the rules under their noses?

And do you really think Kamala Harris can win over the electorate? She is not much of an orator herself, and while she may have been Biden's VP, this administration's accomplish belong to him, and she'll fail to convince the nation that she's as much owner of it as he is.

Who said anything about Kamala Harris? I wouldn’t put her up.

 

[Kathryn]

It saddens me that Trump and Biden are the best this country has to offer.

You and me both.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Who said anything about Kamala Harris? I wouldn’t put her up.

Then the chances of defeating Trump drop even further.

I have read Allan Lichtman's "Keys to the White House," and understand them. Using that model, he has accurately predicted the winner of every U.S. presidential election since 1984, with the exception of 2000 (although he did forecast successfully that Al Gore would win the popular vote that year), and 2016, where he predicted Donald Trump would win (as he did), despite Trump's popular vote loss (Lichtman only predicted popular vote, and that Trump would win it).

 

[Kathryn]

I wonder if anyone remembers that after Woodrow Wilson (rated 13th best President) suffered a stroke and that his wife essentially ran the White House for the remainder of his second term.

Well, to be completely fair, Wilson had a stroke in October and the elections were in November, and he lost. Actually, I'm not sure he ran.

 

[Pogo]

Then the chances of defeating Trump drop even further.

I have read Allan Lichtman's "Keys to the White House," and understand them. Using that model, he has accurately predicted the winner of every U.S. presidential election since 1984, with the exception of 2000 (although he did forecast successfully that Al Gore would win the popular vote that year), and 2016, where he predicted Donald Trump would win (as he did), despite Trump's popular vote loss (Lichtman only predicted popular vote, and that Trump would win it).

I wouldn't be to sure of Lichtman if what he is predicting is popular vote, that is not where the problem is and his ideas seem based on realities, but that is not where we are either.

 

[Pogo]

Well, to be completely fair, Wilson had a stroke in October and the elections were in November, and he lost. Actually, I'm not sure he ran.

IIRC the stroke was in 19 and he left office in 21.

 

[Kathryn]

IIRC the stroke was in 19 and he left office in 21.

He didn't ever run for President again. Also, he had already served nearly two full terms. And finally, he did have WW1 as a calling card so to speak.

Oh and his Republican adversary, Warren Harding, won the election in late 1920 and was inaugurated early in 1921.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I wouldn't be to sure of Lichtman if what he is predicting is popular vote, that is not where the problem is and his ideas seem based on realities, but that is not where we are either.

In any case, I am really giving this a lot of thought right now. I'm not American, but Canada (I believe) would be hugely adversely impacted by another Trump Presidency.

I can see what's happening in the polls, as well as the next guy. I also know (I've watched elections for half a century!) that polls can be turned around -- and that the electorate can, on election day, thumb their collective noses at the polls!

It would take, in my view, an absolutely phenomenal amount of money and effort to make any candidate other than Biden well-known and trusted enough by the electorate. If that money is available, and if there's the will and bodies to make that effort, then maybe it might be better to replace Biden. But that sort of money and effort has never been available before, and I don't see where it comes from now.

In any case, I can see the pressures that are being heaped onto Joe right now, and I can see that those pressures might well become a flood before this week is out. It's kind of asking a lot of an atheist to rely on nothing but prayer to save the American democracy, but my nation needs it preserved for our own good.

 

[Alien826]

I'm quite sure I know what is the right decision about Biden.

I'll tell you in December.

 

[Koldo]

I'd rather live with a fascist then a marxist or communist if I had no choice in the matter.

Although granted, if i did have a choice, it would be neither.

You remind me of a saying: Facism is capitalism's emergency button.

 

[Koldo]

Then the chances of defeating Trump drop even further.

I have read Allan Lichtman's "Keys to the White House," and understand them. Using that model, he has accurately predicted the winner of every U.S. presidential election since 1984, with the exception of 2000 (although he did forecast successfully that Al Gore would win the popular vote that year), and 2016, where he predicted Donald Trump would win (as he did), despite Trump's popular vote loss (Lichtman only predicted popular vote, and that Trump would win it).

What are your thoughts on Michelle Obama?