The Big Bang Theory is dead.

[YoursTrue]

That would be a "no" on both questions.

Based on one of your recent replies, now I'm going to ask if you believe there is a God.

 

[TLK Valentine]

*Sigh* and you were doing so well....

I believe you probably believe in the theory of evolution. So then--why worry? According to that theory, insofar as evolution goes, that's the way it goes.

Why indeed - the difference is that I don't worship evolution,
I'm certainly not going to worship a god who demands cruelty...

...and I'm absolutely not going to follow anyone's advice who says I should.

Why do you?

Animals themselves are cruel by nature (evolution, you think?) to each other.

As I said, cruelty implies UNnecessity.

Were you to check the dictionary, you would see that the definition of cruelty is "callous indifference or pleasure at pain and suffering."

While animals are certainly indifferent, they lack the mental capacity to show callousness - and the only creatures capable of showing pleasure at others' suffering are humans... and gods.

In any event, I certainly expect more from a god than I would from an animal.

Don't you?

So? What you should do is research how the priests were supposed to kill a sacrificial animal.

I have - I assumed you had as well.

Oh and one more thing. Maybe you think you can change the course of evolution, is that it?

I already know for a fact that we can. We've been doing it for thousands of years - it's called "artificial selection," also known as "selective breeding."

Every animal we've ever domesticated; every plant we've ever grown, has been the result of us changing the course of evolution.

Didn't you know that?

Perhaps you should discuss what you think evolution is... Because frankly, I'm getting very disappointed with where this discussion is going.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Based on one of your recent replies, now I'm going to ask if you believe there is a God.

I'm currently on the fence on that one.

But even if there is, the notion that anything we say or do is going to influence It to do us any favors seems the height of hubris.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You need to research and look at how slaughterhouses had been and are killing the animals. Most of the time, human-apes do not eat other human-apes under normal circumstances, like buying human=ape meat in the market and cooking it in a stew or something like that.

Kudos to you for quantifying with "most of the time," since cannibalism still exists in some remote parts of the world.

In any event, the act of one creature eating another is not, in and of itself, an act of cruelty, since eating is a necessity for survival, and cruelty is, by nature, inflicting unnecessary suffering.

Besides, we humans have found so many more novel and creative ways to be cruel to one another... cannibalism is passe...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Are you higher than the animals you eat?

In what way? I'm certainly more intelligent than they are, but that's about it.

By the way, I eat animal flesh sometimes and have no big qualm about it. These animals have to be killed in order to be eaten.

And we have to eat in order to not die ourselves. So as I said, eating other animals is not by itself an act of cruelty.

Some people are more fastidious about it than others, like they will buy food from markets that slaughter the animals more compassionately

Indeed - some people are so fastidious that they eschew meat and meat products altogether - such people are commonly known as "vegans."

Those who do so for moral reasons would argue that all meat is unnecessary, believing that humanity can gain enough nutritional value from plants to thrive.

Personally, I don't think we're there yet - perhaps someday we will be, and future generations will look back on us meat-eaters with the same disdain that we have for cannibals.

But until that day comes... meat's still on the menu.

. And of course, don't forget that human=apes kill other human-apes in rather hurtful ways. As well as killing chickens, cows, pigs, and the like. So far I haven't heard much about eating gorilla and monkey=apes, but I can only figure it's done in some cultures.

As a matter of fact, gorilla meat is common in many parts of Africa, monkey meat is a delicacy in parts of Japan, and it's among the main reasons these animals are on the endangered species list.

Humans are omnivores - seems like we'll eat darn near anything that won't eat us first.

And of course, lions and other animals will rip apart other animals for food.

Lions and other animals can't call GrubHub and order a pizza.

Remember that cruelty is unnecessary pain and suffering inflicted...

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm currently on the fence on that one.

But even if there is, the notion that anything we say or do is going to influence It to do us any favors seems the height of hubris.

I know you don't believe this and it can be hard for many to accept, plus I do not know the final outcome for each individual, but -- Adam and Eve were the first humans. They bequeathed sin and error to their offspring by genetics and situation.
God is God, He is the Lawmaker and Giver and neither I nor you are that. I believe the account from Adam and Eve on down to our day today.
About the "immaculate conception," perhaps we can discuss that another time because I do not believe that Mary was a perfect individual without inherited flaw yet God was pleased with her and her attitude. He, God, protected the baby in the womb. Everyone but Jesus inherited sin from Adam. That is why he is called the last Adam.
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:45
Now I don't why you don't believe in sin. If you feel like it, you can explain. if not, ok, so be it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Kudos to you for quantifying with "most of the time," since cannibalism still exists in some remote parts of the world.

In any event, the act of one creature eating another is not, in and of itself, an act of cruelty, since eating is a necessity for survival, and cruelty is, by nature, inflicting unnecessary suffering.

Besides, we humans have found so many more novel and creative ways to be cruel to one another... cannibalism is passe...

In general, insofar as I know, human meat is not sold for consumption in the U.S. and/or the environs. Not sure why that is but I can only guess it's based somehow on moral grounds. Maybe it's not good to eat a dead body, I don't know and probably there would be a public outrage against it. Most people like to bury their dead, meaning human dead. Sometimes they bury their animals, have services for them, too.
But that doesn't matter, because -- people slaughter and kill one another in many different ways as well as cows, pigs, chickens, ducks, and others. They don't have to eat them to be cruel, but they are in many different ways. I believe there are some nuts that would eat human flesh in the U.S. I think they're nuts and disgusting. But some people will do many things that are normally abhorrent to others. Take war, for instance. But that's legal, depending on the situation, right? And I'm not speaking of other situations here either.
So you don't believe there is something called sin, do I have your idea correct on this?

 

[YoursTrue]

In what way? I'm certainly more intelligent than they are, but that's about it.



And we have to eat in order to not die ourselves. So as I said, eating other animals is not by itself an act of cruelty.




Indeed - some people are so fastidious that they eschew meat and meat products altogether - such people are commonly known as "vegans."

Those who do so for moral reasons would argue that all meat is unnecessary, believing that humanity can gain enough nutritional value from plants to thrive.

Personally, I don't think we're there yet - perhaps someday we will be, and future generations will look back on us meat-eaters with the same disdain that we have for cannibals.

But until that day comes... meat's still on the menu.



As a matter of fact, gorilla meat is common in many parts of Africa, monkey meat is a delicacy in parts of Japan, and it's among the main reasons these animals are on the endangered species list.

Humans are omnivores - seems like we'll eat darn near anything that won't eat us first.



Lions and other animals can't call GrubHub and order a pizza.

Remember that cruelty is unnecessary pain and suffering inflicted...

OK, I'll leave that one alone in that you claim you are more intelligent than the animals humans (human-apes) eat. I have a funny feeling you will find no counter reaction from those who believe in evolution here because of this discussion. So much for "peer review."

 

[blü 2]

I do it because I am saved.

Define "saved".

Then demonstrate that you conform to that definition.

 

[YoursTrue]

In what way? I'm certainly more intelligent than they are, but that's about it.



And we have to eat in order to not die ourselves. So as I said, eating other animals is not by itself an act of cruelty.




Indeed - some people are so fastidious that they eschew meat and meat products altogether - such people are commonly known as "vegans."

Those who do so for moral reasons would argue that all meat is unnecessary, believing that humanity can gain enough nutritional value from plants to thrive.

Personally, I don't think we're there yet - perhaps someday we will be, and future generations will look back on us meat-eaters with the same disdain that we have for cannibals.

But until that day comes... meat's still on the menu.



As a matter of fact, gorilla meat is common in many parts of Africa, monkey meat is a delicacy in parts of Japan, and it's among the main reasons these animals are on the endangered species list.

Here's the thing -- you may not consider eating meat as an act of cruelty, and I do eat meat. But -- if you look into the practices at slaughterhouses you may change your mind. I still eat meat though, but I'm not a big meateater and it's not because I worry now about how the animals are treated. I just don't like much beef but I have it occasionally. I do believe that God will straighten all this out in a while. Revelation 21:1-5 helps to understand my viewpoint on this. (Not your viewpoint, of course, but I'm trying to explain my way of seeing things and what God will do.)

Humans are omnivores - seems like we'll eat darn near anything that won't eat us first.



Lions and other animals can't call GrubHub and order a pizza.

Remember that cruelty is unnecessary pain and suffering inflicted...

I don't know -- Grubhub. I don't call them but I do like pizza. I do have some questions about the future and animals but because I believe in God's lovingkindness and wisdom I naturally look forward to His decisions and trust Him, unlike what Adam and Eve did. I enjoy many aspects of life. There are some aspects I'm not too fond of. But God is God and I'm not and I fully expect that He will settle all things in a most fair, loving and generous way.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I know you don't believe this and it can be hard for many to accept, plus I do not know the final outcome for each individual, but -- Adam and Eve were the first humans. They bequeathed sin and error to their offspring by genetics and situation.

Ok, first question: What do you think "sin" is?

Because theologically speaking, I define it as disobedience to God,and I don't see how disobedience can be genetic.

God is God, He is the Lawmaker and Giver and neither I nor you are that.

...and here's where things get dicey. What it comes down to is that God is not to be questioned - and that's just not going to work for me, as I find many of the actions attributed to Him to be highly questionable.

But you don't, and that's fine - I'm not going to stand between someone and their beliefs... so long as their beliefs don't harm me or mine.

I believe the account from Adam and Eve on down to our day today.
About the "immaculate conception," perhaps we can discuss that another time because I do not believe that Mary was a perfect individual without inherited flaw yet God was pleased with her and her attitude.

Again, that's your belief, but keep in mind that I was quoting Christian doctrine.
Feel free to disagree... with them.

He, God, protected the baby in the womb. Everyone but Jesus inherited sin from Adam.

Again, Christian doctrine says that's because Mary was without sin.

That is why he is called the last Adam.
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:45
Now I don't why you don't believe in sin. If you feel like it, you can explain. if not, ok, so be it.

As I said, I define "sin" as "disobedience to God."
As I'm on the fence about the existence of God, the issue of "sin" is moot.

 

[TLK Valentine]

In general, insofar as I know, human meat is not sold for consumption in the U.S. and/or the environs. Not sure why that is but I can only guess it's based somehow on moral grounds. Maybe it's not good to eat a dead body, I don't know and probably there would be a public outrage against it.

That's why I said cannibalism is a thing in remote parts of the world.
It's good to remember that there is a world outside the US.

Most people like to bury their dead, meaning human dead. Sometimes they bury their animals, have services for them, too.

Thank you,I am quite familiar with funerary customs in the civilized world.

But that doesn't matter, because -- people slaughter and kill one another in many different ways as well as cows, pigs, chickens, ducks, and others. They don't have to eat them to be cruel, but they are in many different ways.

As I said, cruelty is a trait found only in humans and in gods.

I believe there are some nuts that would eat human flesh in the U.S. I think they're nuts and disgusting. But some people will do many things that are normally abhorrent to others. Take war, for instance. But that's legal, depending on the situation, right? And I'm not speaking of other situations here either.

War is occasionally a necessary evil - the trick is making sure it's more "necessary" than evil.
We can learn a lot from the likes of Sun Tzu and Carl Von Clausewitz to that effect.

So you don't believe there is something called sin, do I have your idea correct on this?

Absolutely - there's corruption, evil, atrocity, and madness, but "sin" is specifically an act against a god.

Gotta believe in God before you can sin against It.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Jewish laws, to be sure - but not God's.

So right there we see that our knowledge of God is limited and flawed.

Again, the laws that Jews use to kill animals is different from secular laws. I'm hoping someone knowledgeable in the Jewish religious practices can help out a little bit here.

 

[TLK Valentine]

OK, I'll leave that one alone in that you claim you are more intelligent than the animals humans (human-apes) eat. I have a funny feeling you will find no counter reaction from those who believe in evolution here because of this discussion. So much for "peer review."

Do you know what "peer review" is?

Anyone who disagrees with me is welcome to present their counterargument. And if they prove me wrong, I'll happily admit it and change my mind.

But..... I'm pretty confident on this one.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ok, first question: What do you think "sin" is?

Me? What do "I" think sin is? You don't believe there is such a thing as sin, so maybe you can answer what you think sin is or is not.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Here's the thing -- you may not consider eating meat as an act of cruelty, and I do eat meat. But -- if you look into the practices at slaughterhouses you may change your mind.

Oh, I know it's brutal... it's a slaughterhouse, not a nursery school.
But again, as long as eating meat is necessary for survival, then what happens at the slaughterhouse is equally necessary.

I do believe that God will straighten all this out in a while. Revelation 21:1-5 helps to understand my viewpoint on this. (Not your viewpoint, of course, but I'm trying to explain my way of seeing things and what God will do.)

What's He waiting for?

But God is God and I'm not and I fully expect that He will settle all things in a most fair, loving and generous way.

Again... what's He waiting for?

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you know what "peer review" is?

Anyone who disagrees with me is welcome to present their counterargument. And if they prove me wrong, I'll happily admit it and change my mind.

But..... I'm pretty confident on this one.

The jury here is mixed to an extent. Some believe in God and the Bible, some are not so sure but go to their preferred houses of worship, others are atheists and some are agnostics.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Me? What do "I" think sin is? You don't believe there is such a thing as sin, so maybe you can answer what you think sin is or is not.

I already did. Now I'm asking for your opinion.

As "sin" is such an important part of our discussion, it seems important that we both define our terms.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The jury here is mixed to an extent. Some believe in God and the Bible, some are not so sure but go to their preferred houses of worship, others are atheists and some are agnostics.

Ok... and what does that have to do with peer review?

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh, I know it's brutal... it's a slaughterhouse, not a nursery school.
But again, as long as eating meat is necessary for survival, then what happens at the slaughterhouse is equally necessary.





What's He waiting for?




Again... what's He waiting for?

What makes you think that eating meat is necessary for survival anyway?