Good to have figured out who your Master is Friend .. bad that you still cling to this deception and recite it to others.
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The Big Bang Theory is dead.
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
- Start date
Good to have figured out who your Master is Friend .. bad that you still cling to this deception and recite it to others.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
What was the first living creature?
How many aminos did it have and what was its code?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
I am here for you. You need lots of help.
How did the first living creature come into being?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
No, it didn't. At *best* it shows we don't know how the early galaxies formed. The basic BB description still holds, the expansion still holds.
And no plasma physics doesn't resolve these issues either.
None of that follows. Not even close. Again, at best, this shows we don't know how early galaxies formed. It produces *tension* between our understanding of that and the age of the universe.
But, just for the same of argument, suppose that this brings the BB into question. Red shifts are still a thing. They are not theoretical and still need to be explained. There are basically three ways to produce a red shift of the type we see: 1. movement away at a substantial fraction of the speed of light, 2. Very intense gravitational fields, 3 universal expansion (similar to 1, but not the same).
NOTHING changes as to the distances to the nearby galaxies, which is quite enough to show the universe is billions of years old. NOTHING changes in regards to the age of the Earth, which is based on completely different processes. NOTHING changes in regards to the dating of fossils or of rock layers.
So the quoted line is simply false in every claim.
Nope. That has been thoroughly disproved long before the BB picture was even proposed.
No you asked questions that either showed your false assumptions or whose answers you ignored.
It appears you don't understand what circular reasoning is.
Nowhere close. You didn't even prove there *is* a God, let alone the tyrant described in the Bible.
If you twist any text enough, you can get confirmation bias confirmed.
Have you actually read the Bible starting at the beginning and going directly through to the end? I would bet not.
No more than the Koran.
Clearly done by someone who knows nothing about carbon dating and its limitations.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
So after decades of looking for the answers to anything, they still have not found the answer to the origin of anything.
The following is just a sketch of what happens for a DNA/RNA based creature to make just a single protein. It is purely mind boggling how amazing and complex and yet how efficient it is. And of course, if you have had any Advanced Biology course, you would have studied was mor than this site describes because it only describes one function of living creatures, although one of the fundamental functions. It is one of the greatest proofs ever that God Almighty exists and created all things, which leads to the corollary that the Bible is the true word of God, and that God created all things in 6 days about 6000 years ago, and that the theory of evolution and billions of years is a lie. It also shows another proof of these facts because how can anyone who sees such an amazing thing ever think it came from natural processes. This delusion comes from the great deceiver.
From RNA to Protein - Molecular Biology of the Cell - NCBI Bookshelf
Why are you asking me to define your assumptions for the probability calculation you are supposed to provide in support of your claim -- complete with assumptions. You have been asked numerous times to state the assumptions in your calculation for the probability of human existence.
You have failed to provide support for your made up claim "probability of humans existing is (x)" - whats more is that you previously crucified your own position . crying out "Prove (X) with Zero Assumptions"
Quite the web of deceit, deception and the irrational you have created.. So in answer to your question -- I do not know .. so tell us Teacher .. answer the question from your calculation .. what was the first living creature .. how many letters in the Amino acid chain .. and what were those letters .. ACGT .. hearkening back to highschool Biology now
At this point - like in the past you realize your position is horribly crucified ..never mind 2 nails .. we are at 3 or 4 at this point.. you running away about now .. realizing your position is crucified .. but, not heeding the words of Proverbs ... refusing correction.. which is fine.
Let us move on - deeper into the wound - and let me tell you a story abou the beginning of life.. from personal experience no less !? - "Bioremediation" - cleaning up contaminated soil and groundwater by getting bacteria to eat the hydrocarbons. I suppose I might qualify as a God to the Bacteria .. manipulating them .. trying to get them to do what I want .. kind of like the Gods of our realm.
Now these are single celled organism - each doing different tasks - from Aerobic Bacteria who have Oxygen as their terminal electron acceptor ..(TEA) much like you .. breathing oxygen in and spewing out carbon dioxide ... generating ATP for the Cell in the process .. the energy storage molecule. to SRB bacteria .. Sulphur Reducing Bacteria .. reducing Sulphate to sulphide .. Sulphate being the TEA .. and everying in the middle Nitrate ... Iron .. each bacteria catalyzing a different reaction .. each at a different spot along the electromagnetic Gradient .. cause that is where they like to be .. Think of your sink ... if you leave food and dishes in there and go on vacation for a month .. when you come back .. you find some nasty "Biofilm" .. which stinks like rotten eggs when disturbed .. Thats the SRB bacteria .. the Sulphide reaction to form H2S gas.
On top is the aerobes -- who use up all the oxygen.. underneath you have facultative bacteria .. the folks who ferment beer .. down further .. where there is no oxygen .. this is where the SRB bacteria like to live .. they don't like Oxygen .. it stops their metabolic activity .. in addition the bacteria above break down organic carbon into partially degraded organics .. Acetate for example which is the food of the SRB.
So.. as you can see .. this is a symbiotic relationship .. the needs the other bacteria to create the right environmental conditions .. an provide food. if you recreate this system in the lab .. food and sunlight in a glass of water if you like .. put a wire at the top "Aerobic" .. and wire at the Bottom "Anaerobic" .. you will generate a significant electric current .. oddly enough - not "much like your brain" .. but exactly the same kind of thing" electrical waves generated by living organisms .. in this case the consortia . the whole community of organisms. Was we explore these consortial phenominon further we find quorum sensing .. where if the biofilm as a whole is threatened .. the whole system will react as one.. the properties of a biofilm for example -- when threatened 1) become charge neutral 2) expel water 3) compaction - the cells become very dense 4) generate copious amounts of EPS - Extra Cellular Polymeric Substances --- aka "SNOT" .. and yes .. this is exactly what is happening to you when you get sick.. as for every one human cell .. you have 9 bacterial cells .. these concentrated in certain places such as gut and colon - but are in many other places in your body. Now .. a human cell is much bigger than a bacterial cell .. so by volume you are more human than bug. By the numbers however .. you are way more bug than human .. in a symbiotic relationship .. you are more or less a house for the bugs . and you need these bugs to survive .. without them you are "Dead Duck Soup"
So what is the point -- other than you now know that when you wake up in the morning and rub your tongue along your teeth -- Yes my friend that is a "Biofilm" .. and if you let things go anaerobic - you will get more rapid tooth decay .. ??
The point .. is that in addition to the assumptions made in your calculation - many of which are flawed - your calculation neglects to factor the "Ghost in the machine" into the equation .. this invisible hand that we notice from time to time .. creating structures that should not be there .. going against the rules of entropy .. which if you think of farting in a corner of a room .. goes from more concentrated to less concentrated .. spreading out .. unfortunately for those around you. Wouldn't it be nice if it went in reverse .. no longer would you have to worry about smelling the nasty... and yet .. despite this impossibility .. we see this happening in nature ... and go WTF ?? that can't be .. what is that ghost in the machine doing in there ..
In the example above we see organisms coming together .. in a completely random way .. that at the same time is not so random if you think about it .. the symbiotic relationship .. but this community action somehow generates an electromagnetic wave .. completely unintended but at the same time -- intended if you look from chemical perspective .. the law of attraction and repulsion .. this force which is governing everything .. but also the force that leads to the creation of these impossible structures .. and the violation of entropy.
This electromagnetic wave then starts to do things .. create things .. .. beyond the ream of random probability .. doing the impossible that has you so startled ... crying out "Impossible" . This Ghost a force we can measure and predict and replicate .. but we have no idea from where this ghost arises. .. how this ghost got there .. pushing against and altering the laws of probability and random behavior .. and my friend you didn't factor that Ghost into your equation .. but, this leads is to a major question you have been avoiding !?
Does the hand of God not have the ability push against and alter the laws of probability and random behavoir .. create ordered structures in the sea of chaos .. and have you not listened to the story in Genesis .. right in the beginning .. the battle between Chaos and order .. outlined to a much greater extent in the various creation stories from which the Genesis story was taken and a part of. The story of Adam and Eve.. the Chaos Serpent in the Garden .. the Primordial Dragon Tiamat .. defeated by YHWH .. as we read in Psalms and the Prophets.
The mystery of existence -- how did order arise out of the Chaos -- is the oldest question of humanity that we know of.. "In The Beginning" The Salt water of the Sea is separated from the Fresh Water on land .. in near every creation story that we know of. .. and though you cry out "Impossible" as did those before you and those before them .. the impossible happened .. and this we can not deny
Many origins are from times when we don' have much data. So simple honesty dictates that we acknowledge that we don't know.
You mean a basic biochemistry course? The advanced biology courses go into how those complex systems evolved.
That does not follow, of course. It is a leap of logic. Even *if* the DNA-protein system was 'created by an intelligence', it does NOT follow that the universe as a whole was, or that the 'creator' of that system was 'almighty'.
That *clearly* doesn't follow. Again, even *if* there is a deity, that does NOT imply the Bible is true. It could by that any number of other religious texts are true or even that NONE of them are.
Fortunately, we have actual evidence that shows otherwise. And that is enough to discount the literal Biblical story.
Such is your claim. But you have yet to provide any *evidence* of such a creature or that any of what you say is correct.
BTW, your lack of understanding does not imply people who actually study and understand this stuff are wrong.
Nice description.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
So how pray tell could even the smallest protein come into being?
The smallest in a person's body is 234 base pairs long. And that does not even consider all the molecules that hold the structure together. Nor does it consider the folding that is needed fro the protein. Nor does it consider that there would be a protective structure surrounding it. Nor would it consider that there would be multiple copies of said protein and how could copies come into being.
Study group discussion: Largest protein and the smallest protein in the human body
For awesome medical students - A mix of concepts, notes, mnemonics, discussions, ideas & fun filled with enthusiasm and curiousity. Tags: USMLE MBBS
Funny, your own link shows where you go wrong. There, proteins are *defined* as having more than 100 amino acids.
But, for example, insulin is usually considered to be a protein and it only has 51 amino acids.
And, as your link says, glutathione only has 3 amino acids.
Slick how you use an arbitrary definition to support your case even though the existence of small polypeptides shows your main argument is wrong.
Usually the structures are 'held together' by interaction with water.
Again, spontaneously produced by interaction with the environment, mostly water.
Huh?
Nor would it consider that there would be multiple copies of said protein and how could copies come into being.
Study group discussion: Largest protein and the smallest protein in the human body
For awesome medical students - A mix of concepts, notes, mnemonics, discussions, ideas & fun filled with enthusiasm and curiousity. Tags: USMLE MBBSwww.medicowesome.com
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Proteins consist of many polypeptides. But that is still the smallest protein in the body of man. And of course the odds against that being the product of evolution is that same and vast.
Your the one claiming to know the probability (X) of humans coming into existence - Do tell us how the first living creature came into being .. and what your assumptions were.. in making your probability calculation.
Yeeeouchi Teach .. think "You need lots of help" on this one .. stellar projection of your failings onto others though -- credit where credit is due
Why you keep running around asking others to tell you the assumptions you made in your calculation of the probability (X) of human existance. How would they know what assumptions you made in that deeply flawed number you put forward .. yet to give us how that number was arrived at.
If this is the sand foundation on which your faith is based .. I think your "Im Saved" assumption may be in big trouble. ..for as we read in Scripture .. Matt 7 - Not all those who call "Lord Lord" will make it through the pearly gets .. and in fact Only those that do the Will of the Father.. and since you do not know what that Will is .. your flawed assumptions based in fallacy and irrational thought.. least thus far .. how will you then be saved Brother SBTL ?
On what have you assumed your salvation is based Friend ? on a foundation of sand perhaps ? Listen to the Prophet ..for he is very wise
These flawed assumptions and webs of deceit, deflection and denial are not a house built on rock my Friend
x
Nothing here mate ... the claim to dating of Dino's to ~ 30,000 years ago via Carbon dating is a fraud .. sorry. "Someone's been pulling your leg Son" but that would have been a whooper dee duper if true now wouldn't it Friend .. Dino's running round 30,000 years ago
cept in the sea .. got some paleolithic creatures still running around from the old days .. "paleolithic" get it Har har.
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SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Well obviously you do understands Matthew 7 or the rest of the Bible or the gospel of Christ.
And of course you have no answer to all the evidence that I presented.
What was the first living creature and what features did it have?
McBell
Unbound
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
You need to pay attention better I guess.
This could not have evolved.
McBell
Unbound
STILL waiting for you to present evidence that either actually applies to your claim or does not out right refute your claim.
Indeed I do understand Matt 7 .. and the rest of the Sermon on the Mount Matt 5-7 .. clearly you missed the boat though .. har har.. Where is your response to the words of our lord .. clearly it is you who has no answer .. to your own salvation .. on which you stand on a foundation of Sand .. no assumptions
Tells us friend on what your salvation is based .. calling out "Jesus Jesus" that old Free pass ideology of Idol Martin not going to cut it friend .. a false assumption .. in the land of no assumptions. I told you the 30,000 yr Dinosaur link was a fraud .. You would never use Carbon Dating for such a thing to begin with .. but if you did .. would need to be in conjunction with other dating methods .. as every dinosaur bone measured that is over 75,000 years in age will register as 75,000 years in age .. as that is the limit of the test.
For this reason most labs will only do 50,000 years back as when you get to this end of the scale the test if very wonky due how the test works.
So the lab giving a result of 50,000 years .. for every bone .. is what we would expect from a 100 million year old bone.
When you see a result like 30,000 .. this means there was some small contaminant - as is commonly the case. So wrong test method .. wrong application ... and pure lack of understanding of how this dating method works ..
why you making assumptions about the first living creature .. you are supposed to know defacto what this creature was for your Propability of Humans existing calculation .. a calculation you have never given us, a different hill on which your position was crucified as was based on a plethora of false assumption .. yet you keep returning to the same vomit .. asking same question over and over .. as if you didn't already know the answer .. in some really moronic circular fallacy of deception and deflection.
Tell us what was the first living creature Teacher .. show us how that fits into your calculation of how we got here