The Big Bang Theory is dead.

[McBell]

So -- do not know. Do you? Are there "deities," or are there not deities, or do you have no opinion?

Do you believe in God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So -- do not know. Do you? Are there "deities," or are there not deities, or do you have no opinion?

I feel about deities pretty much the same way that I feel about Big Foot. There is no reliable evidence for either do I lack a belief as well. But show me some reliable evidence and I will change my mind. When one cannot know for certain it is rational to have a lack of belief and to even say that such a being appears to be very unlikely. But to totally rule out such a being is going a bit too far in my opinion.

 

[gnostic]

There is no reliable evidence for either do I lack a belief as well. But show me some reliable evidence and I will change my mind. When one cannot know for certain it is rational to have a lack of belief and to even say that such a being appears to be very unlikely.

It is what every rational person should do.

Without evidence, a person should be skeptical about certain claims or certain beliefs.

it is unreasonable and illogical to accept belief, just because of say-so of certain ancient texts or religious teachings.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is what every rational person should do.

Without evidence, a person should be skeptical about certain claims or certain beliefs.

it is unreasonable and illogical to accept belief, just because of say-so of certain ancient texts or religious teachings.

I think that some Christians really want atheists to say "I don't believe in God because I hate him". Oh, and "babies taste real good too." They think that it is hate when people point out that the God of the Bible is evil and incompetent. That is just an observation. If one reads the Harry Potter books it is rather obvious that Voldemort and many of his supporters are evil. Does that make me hate them? Would I punch Tom Felton in the nose if I saw him? No, I would thank him for making a piece of fiction come to life. The Bible would not be great literature without its good guys and bad guys. The problem is that due to the morality of the time that their good guy was not all that good.

 

[Polymath257]

Ah...you got me on that one. I'll rephrase your answer so I understand it if possible...in other words, would you say either there is a God or there is not a God? Put another way, would you say you think maybe God exists and maybe a God doesn't exist?

What, precisely, do you mean by the phrase 'there is a God'? What defines something as being a God? How would we tell?

Until that is answered, the question doesn't mean anything at all. It is like asking if you believe it is possible that thworps exist or that they don't.

Do I believe it is *possible* that there was an intelligent creator of this universe? Sure. There are scenarios involving multiverses where such would be a possibility. I see such scenarios as incredibly unlikely, but they are *possible*. I see it as much, much more likely that no such intelligent beings exist or existed.

 

[YoursTrue]

What, precisely, do you mean by the phrase 'there is a God'? What defines something as being a God? How would we tell?

Until that is answered, the question doesn't mean anything at all. It is like asking if you believe it is possible that thworps exist or that they don't.

Do I believe it is *possible* that there was an intelligent creator of this universe? Sure. There are scenarios involving multiverses where such would be a possibility. I see such scenarios as incredibly unlikely, but they are *possible*. I see it as much, much more likely that no such intelligent beings exist or existed.

I actually didn't make the first statement about that. The poster said, if I recall correctly, he cannot say (or determine perhaps) if there is a God or there is not a God. I was just wondering how that works.
What do you believe? Do you believe there is a God or maybe there is not a God, or perhaps you don't know...? just wondering...

 

[Polymath257]

I actually didn't make the first statement about that. The poster said, if I recall correctly, he cannot say (or determine perhaps) if there is a God or there is not a God. I was just wondering how that works.
What do you believe? Do you believe there is a God or maybe there is not a God, or perhaps you don't know...? just wondering...

At this point, there is no solid evidence for a God (by whatever definition is used outside of pantheism). So I don't have a belief in any God. I also consider the possibility of any such being to be incredibly low. But, if solid evidence were to be presented, I am willing to change my mind.

 

[YoursTrue]

At this point, there is no solid evidence for a God (by whatever definition is used outside of pantheism). So I don't have a belief in any God. I also consider the possibility of any such being to be incredibly low. But, if solid evidence were to be presented, I am willing to change my mind.

Ok I thank you for your comment. I hope to get back to this later, so we have a definition or idea what God means.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok I thank you for your comment. I hope to get back to this later, so we have a definition or idea what God means.

It is up to those that believe in a God to define it. Would you accept a definition of God that I made up for you? You shouldn't. So why ask him to define a God that he does not believe in? That makes no sense.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

It is up to those that believe in a God to define it. Would you accept a definition of God that I made up for you? You shouldn't. So why ask him to define a God that he does not believe in? That makes no sense.

God is the Almighty who cerated all things about 6000 years in 6 days without evolution.
God also caused a worldwide flood about 4500 years ago where only 8 people survived.
God also became a man died on the cross, was buried, and rose the 3rd day.
And God will judge all.
Read the Bible for the many details,

 

[John53]

God is the Almighty who cerated all things about 6000 years in 6 days without evolution.
God also caused a worldwide flood about 4500 years ago where only 8 people survived.
God also became a man died on the cross, was buried, and rose the 3rd day.
And God will judge all.
Read the Bible for the many details,

Why would I believe you when you have proved so unreliable?

 

[YoursTrue]

God is the Almighty who cerated all things about 6000 years in 6 days without evolution.
God also caused a worldwide flood about 4500 years ago where only 8 people survived.
God also became a man died on the cross, was buried, and rose the 3rd day.
And God will judge all.
Read the Bible for the many details,

God does not die. No part of God dies.

 

[gnostic]

I actually didn't make the first statement about that. The poster said, if I recall correctly, he cannot say (or determine perhaps) if there is a God or there is not a God. I was just wondering how that works.
What do you believe? Do you believe there is a God or maybe there is not a God, or perhaps you don't know...? just wondering...

For one, “believing” isn’t the same as “knowing”.

Belief, or to believe, relates to what one believe is “possible”…

…BUT, one may even believe in some things or some ones that are clearly “impossible” and can accept to be true. Here, when you believe the “impossible” being true, you would have to take this “blind faith”.

The problem with “faith,” it is highly subjective, therefore it is biased.

i am talking about belief in the supernatural, where anyone can “believe” the” impossible” being true, such as beliefs in spirits, in deities, in the afterlife of some kinds (eg resurrection, reincarnation, etc), in magic & miracles.

To me, miracles are really not different from magic, as it require suspension from natural & physical reality, defying the natural law.

For instance, the Jesus’ miracle of turning water into wine, which is not physically and naturally possible, and definitely not probable.

I will come back to this miracle in a moment.

The “knowing” is different, in that it requires information to determine if it is “probable” or “improbable”...and knowing is never accepting anything that’s “improbable”. If we know something to be improbable, then we should reject it.

Knowing requires “information” that can be verified in some ways. In science, the way we determine if models are probable or improbable, are through tests, hence you are testing the models. And these tests come from observations of evidence or of experiments, and these observations also provide information (data) about the physical properties of the evidence or experiments…observable data are themselves evidence, and these data often come in the forms of quantities and measurements.

so for science, data are information that allow scientists to determine if the models are true & probable, of the models are false or improbable. If you have refuted a model, then you should reject the model because it is improbable. Models are only can be accessed when it is verified by the evidence & data.

Going back to miracle of turning water into wine.

This miracle is not only impossible, it is also highly improbable, because we know that water, is chemically known as H2O, or 2 hydrogen atoms bond to oxygen atom, in liquid state.

Wine, on the other hand, regardless of it being red wine or white wine, required fermentation of grape juice, and that can only happen if you have grapes. Without grapes you cannot transform water into wine, as that not chemically possible.

Fermentation occurs because there are yeast that grow naturally on the grape skins, and over time, the yeast will chemically breakdown the natural sugar within the grapes, and convert the sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide. The more sugar there are in the grapes , the more alcoholic it will produce. Instead of just having fruit juice, you will have alcoholic wine.

Water, by itself, do not have sugar, and water don’t ferment, could not possibly convert sugar into alcohol.

knowing how to make wine, have been practice thousands of years before the gospel of John was composed, and whoever wrote this gospel, clearly don’t know anything about winemaking. The author, whoever he may be, is an idiot, writing something that cannot possibly happen.

But of course, you may believe in magic and miracle, if you want to, but knowing how wine are made, and knowing what water are made of, water cannot turn into wine without magic.

That’s the differences between knowing and believing.

Knowing is about having the information required, to decide what is true and probable (and therefore having the facts), and what is untrue and improbable.

Believing, don’t require factual information, because as I have illustrated with gospel of John’s example, you can accept the belief in the impossible (the water-wine miracle), regardless if the evidence don’t support such belief.

 

[YoursTrue]

For one, “believing” isn’t the same as “knowing”.

Belief, or to believe, relates to what one believe is “possible”…

…BUT, one may even believe in some things or some ones that are clearly “impossible” and can accept to be true. Here, when you believe the “impossible” being true, you would have to take this “blind faith”.

The problem with “faith,” it is highly subjective, therefore it is biased.

i am talking about belief in the supernatural, where anyone can “believe” the” impossible” being true, such as beliefs in spirits, in deities, in the afterlife of some kinds (eg resurrection, reincarnation, etc), in magic & miracles.

To me, miracles are really not different from magic, as it require suspension from natural & physical reality, defying the natural law.

For instance, the Jesus’ miracle of turning water into wine, which is not physically and naturally possible, and definitely not probable.

I will come back to this miracle in a moment.

The “knowing” is different, in that it requires information to determine if it is “probable” or “improbable”...and knowing is never accepting anything that’s “improbable”. If we know something to be improbable, then we should reject it.

Knowing requires “information” that can be verified in some ways. In science, the way we determine if models are probable or improbable, are through tests, hence you are testing the models. And these tests come from observations of evidence or of experiments, and these observations also provide information (data) about the physical properties of the evidence or experiments…observable data are themselves evidence, and these data often come in the forms of quantities and measurements.

so for science, data are information that allow scientists to determine if the models are true & probable, of the models are false or improbable. If you have refuted a model, then you should reject the model because it is improbable. Models are only can be accessed when it is verified by the evidence & data.

Going back to miracle of turning water into wine.

This miracle is not only impossible, it is also highly improbable, because we know that water, is chemically known as H2O, or 2 hydrogen atoms bond to oxygen atom, in liquid state.

Wine, on the other hand, regardless of it being red wine or white wine, required fermentation of grape juice, and that can only happen if you have grapes. Without grapes you cannot transform water into wine, as that not chemically possible.

Fermentation occurs because there are yeast that grow naturally on the grape skins, and over time, the yeast will chemically breakdown the natural sugar within the grapes, and convert the sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide. The more sugar there are in the grapes , the more alcoholic it will produce. Instead of just having fruit juice, you will have alcoholic wine.

Water, by itself, do not have sugar, and water don’t ferment, could not possibly convert sugar into alcohol.

knowing how to make wine, have been practice thousands of years before the gospel of John was composed, and whoever wrote this gospel, clearly don’t know anything about winemaking. The author, whoever he may be, is an idiot, writing something that cannot possibly happen.

But of course, you may believe in magic and miracle, if you want to, but knowing how wine are made, and knowing what water are made of, water cannot turn into wine without magic.

That’s the differences between knowing and believing.

Knowing is about having the information required, to decide what is true and probable (and therefore having the facts), and what is untrue and improbable.

Believing, don’t require factual information, because as I have illustrated with gospel of John’s example, you can accept the belief in the impossible (the water-wine miracle), regardless if the evidence don’t support such belief.

I understand your thoughts about the wine-water account but a miracle is a miracle and not a natural occurrence.

 

[gnostic]

I understand your thoughts about the wine-water account but a miracle is a miracle and not a natural occurrence.

good…then you will know why I would reject such miracles.

Understanding the process of winemaking and understanding what water chemically are made of, knowing those facts would dispel such belief.

knowing is about having the facts or having the factual information, to determine what is true or untrue. Knowing is about rejecting what are untrue or improbable.

Believing, on the other hand, will accept anything that are possible, as well as those who accept that are impossible (such as miracles, magic, supernatural).

That's a big difference between believing and knowing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is the Almighty who cerated all things about 6000 years in 6 days without evolution.

I see. So you are back to calling God a liar and without any evidence. Like I said, if your God exists do you think that he will appreciate you calling him a liar?

God also caused a worldwide flood about 4500 years ago where only 8 people survived.

Oh my! Doubling down on the name calling. God is gonna be so pissed if he exists.

God also became a man died on the cross, was buried, and rose the 3rd day.

So God sacrificed himself to himself to make up for his own error in the creation myth. Now there is some twisted "logic".

And God will judge all.

Do you really think that he is capable of doing so with all of his failures that you keep pointing out?

Read the Bible for the many details,

Oh I have. I am surprised that anyone believes it. That shows the power of indoctrination from birth.

 

[YoursTrue]

good…then you will know why I would reject such miracles.

Understanding the process of winemaking and understanding what water chemically are made of, knowing those facts would dispel such belief.

knowing is about having the facts or having the factual information, to determine what is true or untrue. Knowing is about rejecting what are untrue or improbable.

Believing, on the other hand, will accept anything that are possible, as well as those who accept that are impossible (such as miracles, magic, supernatural).

That's a big difference between believing and knowing.

No one alive on the planet today can say they've been there. I go by what the Bible says in essence, and I believe Jesus could certainly have turned water into wine. Just as he walked on water...that is why he was given special abilities to denote him as the messiah.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I already said God is alive.
And always existed.

The universe has always existed.

Don't agree?

Show me a point in time when the universe didn't exist.

 

[gnostic]

No one alive on the planet today can say they've been there. I go by what the Bible says in essence, and I believe Jesus could certainly have turned water into wine. Just as he walked on water...that is why he was given special abilities to denote him as the messiah.

What the Bible have to say, such as the miracles are taken on faith in such beliefs.

The same goes with any claims of any miracle...again, faith-based belief.

There are no evidence to support such beliefs, certainly not in the case with water-to-wine miracle, which defied natural reality.

 

[YoursTrue]

What the Bible have to say, such as the miracles are taken on faith in such beliefs.

The same goes with any claims of any miracle...again, faith-based belief.

There are no evidence to support such beliefs, certainly not in the case with water-to-wine miracle, which defied natural reality.

We all make choices of one sort or another