• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The blind faith of the evolutionists

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
We are speaking about Darwinian evolution which based on mutations and natural selection and not a directed evolution by God.

Consider, FearGod, that there is not necessarily a distinction here. One can no more say that Darwinian evolution is not directed by God than one can say that God is not aware of anything else on Earth.

Also, you talk about Evolution as if it were speculative or a matter of faith. And that is simply not the case. It is demonstrated, and has been independently demonstrated even back in the 19th century. It has practical applications and has indeed been used as the basis for very lucrative activities for many decades.

If it is a matter of faith, then it must be some powerful and very reliable variety of faith!


It is a fact that no one know what had happened millions of year ago that forced species to evolve to a new different kinds than the previous ones.

Species keep evolving to this day. A few years ago bacteria capable of digesting nylon developed spontaneously, for instance.

Your wording suggests that it was an ancient event and that it was forceful, but that is not the case, or at least no more so then than it is now.

Do you understand what selective pressure is? The factor which directs evolution, and the reason why it isn't really a random process?


Can we prove that God wasn't involved,

Of course not! For all anyone knows, he was.


so who think that God wasn't involved then he has a blind faith on Darwinian evolution and the one who think that God was involved then he has blind faith on religion.

I beg to differ.

One may have or lack faith about whether evolution was meant to happen. I won't discuss yet whether it is blind or not, but let's call it faith. So far so good.

However, you are comparing completely separated beliefs here. Evolution and religion, to put it bluntly, are not the same thing, and are not supposed to be opposed either.

Evolution isn't about stating that human beings are definitely not meant to exist by the will of God, nor anything similar. It is instead completely possible and reasonable to accept both Evolution and faith in a Creator, personal God. Perhaps well over a billion people do just that, and I fully expect that most people in the world will eventually follow their lead.

Evolution is no more a challenge to belief in God than, say, the existence of the Egyptian Pyramids.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Then why are you trying to say evolution requires blind faith? It does not. You have just annihilated your own objection, it seems.

Does evolution "deny" God? Absolutely not. It says nothing about God at all. To say anything about God at all, is to not being doing natural science. It ceases to be doing science and swerves off into being theological. If however someone looks at the fact of evolution, which you apparently accept, and interprets this as saying God doesn't exist, that all there is is the natural world, end of story, this is NOT a conclusion of science! It is a conclusion of philosophical materialism. Philosophical materialism is not science. It's philosophy. It sees the world through that mental filter the same way a person of faith sees the world through the filter of their faith.


There is no such thing as "evolutionists". I accept evolution, and apparently you do too! So are you and I "evolutionists"? No, what you are arguing against is philosophical materialism. Be specific, and go after what you really see as the problem, not mistakenly and falsely demonizing evolution or science. Right?

Who caused evolution according to your view & knowledge ?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
There's nothing to stop God from creating new species even today.

I suppose not, but the question was whether it happens today, not whether it can happen without God's approval or decision.

Of course, how can one prove that anything happens without God anyway? :confused:
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I suppose not, but the question was whether it happens today, not whether it can happen without God's approval or decision.
Of course, how can one prove that anything happens without God anyway? :confused:
That's the problem with creationism....it can't be wrong about anything.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Who caused evolution according to your view & knowledge ?
I think you have a misunderstanding of what evolution actually is. Evolution happens all the time. Evolution is a process. It is a process of change over time. Hence why evolution is constantly occurring.

What your confusion appears to be is that you think the Theory of Evolution is some novel idea. It is not. All the ToE is stating is that the process of evolution, which occurs naturally in everything, is responsible for the diversification of the species. "Evolution" is first a natural process, and secondly a word we apply to the ToE which has to do with speciation.

I think this may help you. First evolution as a process is really about how things naturally self-organize. There are myriad common examples of this. Read this here as an introduction to what are common sights in the natural world: Order from Disorder. Creation in Everyday Life.

Secondly, this is an interesting discussion between evolution is a process, and evolution as a theory. Both of these are well worth your effort to be more informed about these things: Theory or Process?


Now as far as "who" caused evolution according to my view? Well since it is a natural process, like so many other in the natural world, I'd say God created everything. I see evolution as the hand of God in creation. And furthermore, Creation is not an event in the past, it's a now-activity. Everyday is "the creation". Evolution is an expression of the creativity of God.
 
Last edited:

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
I could've swore the guy in those aviator sunglasses was about to flip a tank. That was a really ignorant question that many of them attempted to answer, in fact did answer, but the recorder did not want to accept as an answer.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
But that isn't a good example for evolution as it is still bacteria.

That, it seems to me, is because of your expectations. Maybe you are a supporter of the concept of "kind" that we see here in this area sometimes.

Kinds, however, are a completely artificial concept, created by human expectation alone. In reality, life forms do transition (rarely, of course) with no clear boundaries to speak of.

It is a well-documented fact, but I suppose it becomes a matter of faith until and unless you do some biological field research of your own.


Do you think the evolution of species from one kind to another is caused by a single mutation or multiple mutations that occurred several times through millions of years.

There are no clear boundaries, so the differentiation of species is indeed usually very gradual (but not always slow). Much of it happened millions of years ago, but not all of it.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
That, it seems to me, is because of your expectations. Maybe you are a supporter of the concept of "kind" that we see here in this area sometimes.

Kinds, however, are a completely artificial concept, created by human expectation alone. In reality, life forms do transition (rarely, of course) with no clear boundaries to speak of.

It is a well-documented fact, but I suppose it becomes a matter of faith until and unless you do some biological field research of your own.




There are no clear boundaries, so the differentiation of species is indeed usually very gradual (but not always slow). Much of it happened millions of years ago, but not all of it.

But was it a single mutation or several multiple mutations that caused it.

Do you think human evolved from Apes due to a single mutation in one period of time or several mutations happened in several periods of time.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
But was it a single mutation or several multiple mutations that caused it.

Do you think human evolved from Apes due to a single mutation in one period of time or several mutations happened in several periods of time.

I have just answered this question, haven't I?

There is no single magic gene. Species differentiation is indeed gradual.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I have just answered this question, haven't I?

There is no single magic gene. Species differentiation is indeed gradual.

So is it multiple mutations that occurred gradually for long period of time,lets say about evolution of humans from Apes.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
So is it multiple mutations that occurred gradually for long period of time,lets say about evolution of humans from Apes.

With all due respect, I created this in hopes it may help you understand the extremely slow process of evolution

10171007_768639373146875_6468489946538266481_n.jpg


Imagine 1,000 generations of mutations and natural selection for each arrow. Keep in mind that this is overly simplified though, evolution is much more complex and slow.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
With all due respect, I created this in hopes it may help you understand the extremely slow process of evolution

10171007_768639373146875_6468489946538266481_n.jpg


Imagine 1,000 generations of mutations and natural selection for each arrow. Keep in mind that this is overly simplified though, evolution is much more complex and slow.

Why do you think agriculture started only before 10000 years ago ? why not before 50000 years ago.

Why human before 10000 years started to have skills and using tools.
 
Top