The bright side of Atheism

[LuisDantas]

But true Christians don't do "worry", so the adverts can't have been aimed at them, so Dawkins and his chums have wasted 150,000 GB pounds / 254.000 US dollars!
Atheist Bus Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway just look around at the world; generally speaking atheists seem a tad jumpy and irritable, but most Christians seem kool, calm and confident, why is that?..

Apparently "true Christians" are far more rare than you assume.

As are the atheists you describe, as a matter of fact.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

.. "true Christians" are far more rare than you assume...

You got it mate, some of my biggest enemies around internet-land are so-called "christians"!..
For examp, a 'Reverend Eric Potts' once said to me- "You disgust me!", huh what cheek!
Mind you it turned out Potts is not a real clergyman at all, he's just a jumped-up 'Assistant Methodist Minister', my guess is that he's the caretaker of their local meeting hall and they gave him that lofty title to keep him sweet so he'll go on slopping out their latrines"..

 

[Estro Felino]

1) Intellectutal honesty. My observations are not forced into supporting preconcieved conclusions.
2) Bacon.
3) Moral and ethical honesty. My understanding of right and wrong is a result of MY consciousness, not forced based on authoritative doctrines.
4) Beef.
5) Curiosity. The freedom to question even in the absence of answers, rather than struggling with dogmatic answers that are not allowed to be questioned.
6) Shellfish.

Doesn't this guy deserve a frubal from all of us?

 

[Thruve]

Did you use the same sloppy reasoning when arriving at your religious beliefs as you use when trolling atheists?

Oh.. are you irritable?
luls.

 

[DawudTalut]

This thread is almost inspired by another one, recently started.
I didn't even want to post in that thread. Because, experience tells me that Atheism has no dark sides, nor negative aspects.

An atheistic person learns to be autonomous from God. An Atheist is necessarily autonomous, given that they believe in no deity.
But this autonomy is what enables people to trust the human nature and to fight for the development of our mankind.
By rejecting superstition, fatalism, determinism, fear of God and so on.

Peace be on all.

....but when it comes to living in any country, there is no person who makes and follows own rules; maybe just inside the home....What happens to autonomy then?

Perhaps you are looking for bright side of darkness!

I strongly feel, there is no one really atheistic deep down in their mind and hearts; they just have had a creed which could not solve their problems, they renegaded.

Majority of atheists are ex-Christians with a University education | How good is that?

No hard feeling to anyone!

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Incidentally, one of the sloppiest people I've ever known is a middleaged christian evangelist street preacher, he's the "Fatalist" type who believes that whatever happens is God's will, so he goes through life not lifting a finger to help himself and his life has degenerated into a sloppy disorganised mess!
For examp, he's got two failed marriages behind him, he's been hauled up court twice for not paying his poll tax, and he's had his electricity, gas, and phone cut off at various times for not paying the bills because he spends all his money on junk like religious music CD's and 'spiritual' books etc..

 

[Revoltingest]

You got it mate, some of my biggest enemies around internet-land are so-called "christians"!..

I've experienced that too. But in the last few years, non-Xian spiritual types & other
atheists have been my worst foes. Socialism & feminism sure get'm fired up!

 

[Kathryn]

Wrong end of the stick. Religions work hard to get people to worry about sinning. That's how they make people obey clerics. If there is no god, there is no sin, and no need to worry about sin.

"Sin" means "missing the mark." Do atheists ever "miss the mark?" Do they make poor choices which hurt themselves and others? Are they sometimes selfish? Is it possible for an atheist to be a bitter person, or a jealous person, or be unreasonably hateful? Can an atheist be a glutton, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, a con artist, etc? Can an atheist say hurtful, unnecessary things to their loved ones and parents?

If they can do these things, does whether or not there's a god make any difference as to whether or not these things are hurtful or destructive?

Now I understand that most atheists (or at least most atheists I've met) say something along the lines of "Well, no god dictates my moral code - I've figured it out for myself," and that seems fine - or at least they seem fine with that. However, does that mean that there can be different moral codes for everyone? Or is there some sort of universal moral code along the lines of "It's all ok as long as you don't hurt yourself or others?"

 

[Revoltingest]

"Sin" means "missing the mark." Do atheists ever "miss the mark?" Do they make poor choices which hurt themselves and others? Are they sometimes selfish? Is it possible for an atheist to be a bitter person, or a jealous person, or be unreasonably hateful? Can an atheist be a glutton, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, a con artist, etc? Can an atheist say hurtful, unnecessary things to their loved ones and parents?

If they can do these things, does whether or not there's a god make any difference as to whether or not these things are hurtful or destructive?

"Sin" to me means something which isn't necessarily wrong, but is prohibited
as a violation of some absolute inerrant morality defined by a supreme being.
So when I do something wrong, I call it an "oopsie".

 

[LuisDantas]

"Sin" means "missing the mark."

That is subject to some interpretation. In practice, many people use the concept as an intimidation weapon.

Do atheists ever "miss the mark?"

Sure, but we do not expect people to feel guilty for that.

Do they make poor choices which hurt themselves and others? Are they sometimes selfish? Is it possible for an atheist to be a bitter person, or a jealous person, or be unreasonably hateful? Can an atheist be a glutton, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, a con artist, etc? Can an atheist say hurtful, unnecessary things to their loved ones and parents?

Of course. Are you then proposing that there is no religious meaning to the concept of sin?

If they can do these things, does whether or not there's a god make any difference as to whether or not these things are hurtful or destructive?

Not really. But you are ignoring what makes the concept of sin distinct from that of mistake. Do you truly feel that they are one and the same thing?

 

[LuisDantas]

Peace be on all.

....but when it comes to living in any country, there is no person who makes and follows own rules; maybe just inside the home....What happens to autonomy then?

How does that connect to the subject here?

Perhaps you are looking for bright side of darkness!

I strongly feel, there is no one really atheistic deep down in their mind and hearts; they just have had a creed which could not solve their problems, they renegaded.

That is just too weird for me to claim to understand, sorry.

Trust me, plenty of people, myself included, are very much atheistic. And that is a good thing. There should be more of us, but social pressure often convinces people to attempt to show a belief that they actually lack.

 

[Kathryn]

"Sin" to me means something which isn't necessarily wrong, but is prohibited
as a violation of some absolute inerrant morality defined by a supreme being.
So when I do something wrong, I call it an "oopsie".

Well - get this - your personal definition of wrongdoing is basically the same definition of the word "sin" as used in the bible! So though you may call it some cute little word, you're saying basically the same thing. You've loaded down the original meaning with your own baggage. Now - that's not saying that others haven't also, but that's an error in theology.

hamartanó: to miss the mark, do wrong, sin
Original Word: ἁμαρτάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hamartanó
Phonetic Spelling: (ham-ar-tan'-o)
Short Definition: I sin
Definition: originally: I miss the mark, hence (a) I make a mistake, (b) I sin, commit a sin (against God); sometimes the idea of sinning against a fellow-creature is present.

Strong's Greek: 264. ???????? (hamartanó) -- to miss the mark, do wrong, sin

 

[Revoltingest]

Well - get this - your personal definition of wrongdoing is basically the same definition of the word "sin" as used in the bible! So though you may call it some cute little word, you're saying basically the same thing. You've loaded down the original meaning with your own baggage. Now - that's not saying that others haven't also, but that's an error in theology.
Strong's Greek: 264. ???????? (hamartanó) -- to miss the mark, do wrong, sin

"Sin" variously would include:
- Eating bacon, shellfish & cheeseburgers
- Not keeping Sunday holy
- Using light switches on Saturday
- Not honoring my father, that ******** ******** rat ********
- Coveting
I commit those, & really really like some of them.
But sometimes oopsies & sins have commonality, eg, gluttony.
I really like gluttony, but I sometimes regret it.

Hey, I should get some recognition for my hard work at disagreeing
with you about something where we're in fundamental agreement.
It doesn't rise the level of a frubie, but an "Atta boy!" would suffice.

 

[Kathryn]

"Sin" variously would include:
- Eating bacon, shellfish & cheeseburgers
- Not keeping Sunday holy
- Using light switches on Saturday
- Not honoring my father, that ******** ******** rat ********
- Coveting
I commit those, & really really like some of them.
But sometimes oopsies & sins have commonality, eg, gluttony.
I really like gluttony, but I sometimes regret it.

Some organizations tell people that some things which may not be sins are sins or are wrong. For instance, some organizations tell their adherents that eating red meat on Friday is wrong. Some organizations tell their adherents that not recycling is wrong. Some organizations tell their adherents that fracking is wrong. Some organizations tell their adherents that racial mixing is wrong.

My religious organization teaches that I am to treat my neighbor as I want to be treated. It teaches to forgive others if I expect to be forgiven. Of course, if these tenets are applied, it becomes clear pretty quickly that I shouldn't commit adultery, or be filled with jealousy (jealousy has some pretty nasty ramifications often enough for it to be a destructive thought pattern), or commit murder, or drive drunk, etc.

Generally speaking, I avoid sin because I realize it's destructive nature - to me and to others. Now, like you, that 's not to say I don't "make an oopsie," ie, "sin," - but my moral standard, which my religious beliefs help form (my life and experiences also form, and continue to form, my moral standard) affirms to me that sin is generally very destructive to myself and/or others, so it's a good thing to avoid. Now - do I WORRY about it? Well, worrying isn't really a big part of my natural personality - I'm just not wired to worry, I guess. But I do take precautions when it comes to sin. I installed a security system and I lock my doors at night - because I know that some people sin. I try to eat a healthy diet because I know that the sin of gluttony or the act of disregarding my body's health has destructive ramifications. I married a person of good moral character because I know that some people are more prone to, and some people are less prone to, committing adultery, which is unacceptable to me when it comes to my marriage. And it's unacceptable to me because of it's destructive nature and the hurt it can cause other people - not simply because "God said don't do it." But God DID say "Don't do it," and I can see why.

In other words, my faith is mature and has grown into the understanding of WHY "the ten commandments" are relevant. I don't blindly follow them - I follow them because I believe they are relevant and make good sense. And I'm grateful for an upbringing in which I learned these tenets BEFORE I was able to see just how applicable they are to life.

But I've also been around long enough to realize the limitations of my human understanding and perspective, and that's when my faith steps in and comforts and supports me emotionally and spiritually.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some organizations tell people that some things which clearly aren't sins are. For instance, some organizations tell their adherents that eating red meat on Friday is wrong. Some organizations tell their adherents that not recycling is wrong. Some organizations tell their adherents that fracking is wrong. Some organizations tell their adherents that racial mixing is wrong.

My religious organization teaches that I am to treat my neighbor as I want to be treated. It teaches to forgive others if I expect to be forgiven. Of course, if these tenets are applied, it becomes clear pretty quickly that I shouldn't commit adultery, or be filled with jealousy (jealousy has some pretty nasty ramifications often enough for it to be a destructive thought pattern), or commit murder, or drive drunk, etc.

Generally speaking, I avoid sin because I realize it's destructive nature - to me and to others. Now, like you, that 's not to say I don't "make an oopsie," ie, "sin," - but my moral standard, which my religious beliefs help form (my life and experiences also form, and continue to form, my moral standard) affirms to me that sin is generally very destructive to myself and/or others, so it's a good thing to avoid. Now - do I WORRY about it? Well, worrying isn't really a big part of my natural personality - I'm just not wired to worry, I guess. But I do take precautions when it comes to sin. I installed a security system and I lock my doors at night - because I know that some people sin. I try to eat a healthy diet because I know that the sin of gluttony or the act of disregarding my body's health has destructive ramifications. I married a person of good moral character because I know that some people are more prone to, and some people are less prone to, committing adultery, which is unacceptable to me when it comes to my marriage. And it's unacceptable to me because of it's destructive nature and the hurt it can cause other people - not simply because "God said don't do it." But God DID say "Don't do it," and I can see why.

In other words, my faith is mature and has grown into the understanding of WHY "the ten commandments" are relevant. I don't blindly follow them - I follow them because I believe they are relevant and make good sense. And I'm grateful for an upbringing in which I learned these tenets BEFORE I was able to see just how applicable they are to life.

But I've also been around long enough to realize the limitations of my human understanding and perspective, and that's when my faith steps in and comforts and supports me emotionally and spiritually.

You're just not giving me any ammunition for argument.
So I'll just ask.....why there were so many heroes at the Alamo?
It didn't have a back door!

 

[Kathryn]

You're just not giving me any ammunition for argument.
So I'll just ask.....why there were so many heroes at the Alamo?
It didn't have a back door!

A POX UPON YOU! Them's fightin' words, buster.

 

[Revoltingest]

A POX UPON YOU! Them's fightin' words, buster.

We's good at fight'n.
Remember the war with Ohio?
We won! Proof you want.
Look where Toledo is!

 

[Alceste]

"Sin" variously would include:
- Eating bacon, shellfish & cheeseburgers
- Not keeping Sunday holy
- Using light switches on Saturday
- Not honoring my father, that ******** ******** rat ********
- Coveting
I commit those, & really really like some of them.
But sometimes oopsies & sins have commonality, eg, gluttony.
I really like gluttony, but I sometimes regret it.

Hey, I should get some recognition for my hard work at disagreeing
with you about something where we're in fundamental agreement.
It doesn't rise the level of a frubie, but an "Atta boy!" would suffice.

You left out all forms of sexual activity that cannot result in conception, like being gay or wanking.

 

[Kathryn]

You left out all forms of sexual activity that cannot result in conception, like being gay or wanking.

And if we're talking about what various organizations dictate as "wrong" or a "sin," you can also include:

Interracial marriage
Drinking tap water
Hunting
Fracking
Wearing fur
Eating meat
Voting Republican
Voting Democratic
Union membership
Not joining a union

Oh wait...those aren't necessarily religious mandates so they don't count, I guess. I mean, other organizations can mandate what's "right" or "wrong," and their constituents may lose their membership in such organizations due to their personal practices or choices, or feel guilty for disobeying or compromising these mandates, or they but that's not the same sort of guilt, I guess...or maybe it's a superior form of guilt...or maybe disobeying these mandates or rules or guidelines is more easily justified...

 

[Looncall]

"Sin" means "missing the mark." Do atheists ever "miss the mark?" Do they make poor choices which hurt themselves and others? Are they sometimes selfish? Is it possible for an atheist to be a bitter person, or a jealous person, or be unreasonably hateful? Can an atheist be a glutton, a thief, an adulterer, a murderer, a con artist, etc? Can an atheist say hurtful, unnecessary things to their loved ones and parents?

If they can do these things, does whether or not there's a god make any difference as to whether or not these things are hurtful or destructive?

Now I understand that most atheists (or at least most atheists I've met) say something along the lines of "Well, no god dictates my moral code - I've figured it out for myself," and that seems fine - or at least they seem fine with that. However, does that mean that there can be different moral codes for everyone? Or is there some sort of universal moral code along the lines of "It's all ok as long as you don't hurt yourself or others?"

I mean by "sin" some arbitrary taboo, usually prescribed by religion, that is not based on reason and evidence.

I am fine with the notion of crime. Ie, harming people, or extended to, say, the environment.