The Brutal Math Of Poverty

[rojse]

Why is that? Have you ever read the book, "In search of excellence"?

In a nut shell, it teaches that if your job is scrubbing toilets, make them the most shiny bowls in town. If you mop floors, make them shine. People who go beyond the call of duty get noticed, people who do the least possible do not.

It sounds like a book rich people read to justify the vast economic segregation that occurs in a variety of developed countries.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It sounds like a book rich people read to justify the vast economic segregation that occurs in a variety of developed countries.

Why don't you read the book first before forming an opinion.

Actually it is a motivating book to achieve your goals in life. That would be a young person's book who has not made it yet.

So let me ask you a question, do you believe capitalism needs to be justified?

 

[rojse]

Why don't you read the book first before forming an opinion.

Actually it is a motivating book to achieve your goals in life. That would be a young person's book who has not made it yet.

So let me ask you a question, do you believe capitalism needs to be justified?

Oh, I do believe capitalism works in some regards. But even America, bastion of capitalism, uses some of the more beneficial parts of socialism, and this seems to get missed quite often by advocates of pure capitalism... but this isn't a debate about socialism.

I think that "work hard, and you will go far" is far too simplistic for real life. Hard work helps, but you need assistance along the way to get there. If everyone were using this method, remember that for every manager, they have at least two (if not more) underlings. Only one toilet scrubber is going to make toilet scrubber supervisor.

 

[Alceste]

Why is that? Have you ever read the book, "In search of excellence"?

In a nut shell, it teaches that if your job is scrubbing toilets, make them the most shiny bowls in town. If you mop floors, make them shine. People who go beyond the call of duty get noticed, people who do the least possible do not.

Speaking as somebody who HAS had the job of scrubbing toilets, I find that statement ridiculous. If the family I worked for had told me my bowls were less shiny than the bowls next door, I'd have quit and let them scrub their own damn toilets. (I did eventually quit, but it was over another aspect of the job, which was hosting sessions - jams - in the pub in the evenings. I was of the opinion there should be a generous beer tab for the musicians who sat in, since they weren't being paid for their efforts. Their opinion differed. * shrug *. I left them to clean their own toilets, and to have the only Irish pub in an Irish tourist town with no live Irish music, which left it empty but for a handful of grumbling locals for the rest of the summer.)

The point of all this is, it's a two way street. Sure, it's worthwhile, as an employee, to do the job you're paid to do. That's a no-brainer. But it's also worthwhile as an employer to treat your employees with dignity and respect and cut them a fair deal, or you will end up with the type of employee who doesn't give a fiddler's fart about their job. THAT is how you get the most productivity out of someone, and why Denmark outperforms the US by 20 % despite the fact 80 % of its work force belongs to a trade union.

BTW, while you might "get noticed" for spit shining your toilet bowls, the fact remains that simply being tall is just as advantageous, if not more, so I'll stick with that. I have better things to do than try to get noticed by the managers of toilet cleaning companies. Employees might be expendable from your perspective, but jobs are expendable from mine. And let me tell you, you'd be lucky to have me on your team. I've never left a job without the management putting up a fight. Begging, even.

 

[Alceste]

Why don't you read the book first before forming an opinion.

I'd rather put my own eyes out than read a book with a title like "In Search of Excellence".

 

[Reverend Rick]

It has been my experience that one in three quits. One in three gets fired. The one left who worked hard and stuck things out gets an advancement. I will put a qualifier on this. Many people do not advance because management has formed some kind of negative opinion about them. There is a reason why some folks get passed over. These are the people who believe it is all about luck and not job performance.

 

[Alceste]

It has been my experience that one in three quits. One in three gets fired. The one left who worked hard and stuck things out gets an advancement. I will put a qualifier on this. Many people do not advance because management has formed some kind of negative opinion about them. There is a reason why some folks get passed over. These are the people who believe it is all about luck and not job performance.

So what? Not everybody cares about advancement. If two in three of your employees is quitting or being fired, your management skills are poor and it's hurting your productivity.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'd rather put my own eyes out than read a book with a title like "In Search of Excellence".

The decision is yours. Reading that one book opened more doors than you could possibly imagine for me. People stumble past opportunities every day and insist they never got a break in life.

I would rather be the master of my own destiny than be bitter and complain about how I got the shaft in life. It all boils down to personal responsibility. As long as you realize that you are in control of your life, you will act accordingly. If life gives you lemons, it is time to sell lemonade.

 

[Alceste]

The decision is yours. Reading that one book opened more doors than you could possibly imagine for me. People stumble past opportunities every day and insist they never got a break in life.

I would rather be the master of my own destiny than be bitter and complain about how I got the shaft in life. It all boils down to personal responsibility. As long as you realize that you are in control of your life, you will act accordingly. If life gives you lemons, it is time to sell lemonade.

That's one of many possible philosophies to live by. It does nothing for me. I need a something more substantial and nuanced than bumper stickers and personal affirmations. (A person like me actually needs the opposite of personal affirmations, whatever that would be. Personal reminders to be humble, maybe.)

Can you clarify who is "bitter" and "complaining they got the shaft in life"? Are you able to grasp the idea that some people are perfectly content just to make ends meet, and don't desire your lifestyle? Or at least, don't desire it enough to surrender their liberty or dignity to attain it? Some people are born to sit alone under a tree and contemplate the meaning of life. Some people are born with a lust for wealth and the respect of the other bald monkeys. Contemplatives don't read books with titles like "In Search of Excellence" - books like that are for people who are unsatisfied. I don't know what materialists don't read, since I'm not one.

 

[Magic Man]

The thing is, we are not Denmark. Many of our citizens are substandard to them. When everyone does not pull their weight, it puts an undue burden on others. Something would have to give. We would have less quality health care or we would have to pay higher taxes than they do.

So, let's make everyone pull their weight like they do there. There, problem solved.

Denmark does not have state, county, and city tax. Sales tax, gas tax, liquor tax, cigarette tax, resturant tax........you get the picture. One day we will be taxed at 110% and all go to jail for tax evasion.

You're right, it doesn't. So? That just means we should get rid of the sales tax, gas tax, liquor tax, cigarette tax, restaurant tax.....you get the picture.

Yeah, that's not hyperbole at all that we'll get taxed 110%.

 

[Magic Man]

By having gainful employment and an education.

Yeah, crazy how having a good education provided for you means you have an education and having plenty of decent-paying employment means you have a job, huh? How could we possibly accomplish that? I know! Capitalism!...no, wait, that wouldn't work. Huh, well, I guess socialism might be a good way to achieve those things, but then our entire country would fall apart.

 

[Magic Man]

These are the people who believe it is all about luck and not job performance.

The decision is yours. Reading that one book opened more doors than you could possibly imagine for me. People stumble past opportunities every day and insist they never got a break in life.

I would rather be the master of my own destiny than be bitter and complain about how I got the shaft in life. It all boils down to personal responsibility. As long as you realize that you are in control of your life, you will act accordingly. If life gives you lemons, it is time to sell lemonade.

Again, keep telling yourself this crap. It won't make it true, but at least it'll make you feel better about yourself.

In reality (where the rest of us live), there is a huge element of luck involved in life. You can be that toilet-scrubber who makes the toilet bowls shine for 25 years and never get noticed. Or you can be a toilet-scrubber who makes them shine every day for a year and get noticed. Part of it is appearance, part is personality, part is the personality of the employer, part is just being in the right place at the right time, and, yes, part is doing a good job.

It's really simple. Success = Hard work+Luck.

 

[Ciscokid]

So, let's make everyone pull their weight like they do there. There, problem solved.

LOL, the one genius in the article [remember the topic of this thread] didn't have the motivation to mail a freaking LETTER!!!

 

[Ciscokid]

Again, keep telling yourself this crap. It won't make it true, but at least it'll make you feel better about yourself.

In reality (where the rest of us live), there is a huge element of luck involved in life. You can be that toilet-scrubber who makes the toilet bowls shine for 25 years and never get noticed. Or you can be a toilet-scrubber who makes them shine every day for a year and get noticed. Part of it is appearance, part is personality, part is the personality of the employer, part is just being in the right place at the right time, and, yes, part is doing a good job.

It's really simple. Success = Hard work+Luck.

Let me explain something to you. I've been in the work force for over 20 years. I've worked plenty of jobs where I was the lowest on the totem pole. I now sit in a comfortable position in a global company after working very hard in the IT field for 15 years.

My company manages warehouses. In my office building you have people who make at least 35 - 40K up to half a million a year. I get to visit our warehouses throughout the year and I run into all kinds of people.

There are times when I've been in the operations office and I have to listen to a manager ask a GROWN man why he didn't show up to work the other day [no not because his kid was ill, often times they have no answer] or why he was late again etc etc.

There are all kinds of folks who start at the bottom in the warehouse. What I found is that many/most of the supervisors and managers were ONCE entry level warehouse people who worked hard and got noticed.

You can wait for luck all you want, meanwhile succeeding people around you will be saying "pardon me" as they pass you by. Welcome to mediocrity.

 

[Ciscokid]

Some people are born to sit alone under a tree and contemplate the meaning of life.

Yeah the same people who are asking that a government gives them what they have....so they can spend all day under a tree.

 

[Alceste]

Yeah the same people who are asking that a government gives them what they have....so they can spend all day under a tree.

I've paid more taxes than I've received in benefits by a long stretch. Welfare is not much better than working for someone who can't tolerate being told what to do and when to do it.

 

[Zephyr]

If you aren't rich it's because you aren't working hard enough and you believe that it's luck and you're damned to mediocrity.

 

[Alceste]

LOL, the one genius in the article [remember the topic of this thread] didn't have the motivation to mail a freaking LETTER!!!

That's one interpretation of "didn't have time to mail a payment". Another is "didn't have five days to wait for my payment to be received through the mail because my electricity is getting cut off tomorrow if I don't pay this bill today."

You go with the former out of ignorance, and I'll go with the latter out of experience (because it's more likely), while allowing a little leeway for the remote possibility it all has something to do with "motivation" or IQ.

 

[Alceste]

There are times when I've been in the operations office and I have to listen to a manager ask a GROWN man why he didn't show up to work the other day [no not because his kid was ill, often times they have no answer] or why he was late again etc etc. .

Again, so what? I show up late all the time. I mean, like, every day. If I show up on time it's a fluke. I don't own a watch, and I don't like alarm clocks. When I feel like a day off, I call and say "I can't make it in today". If they want to know why, if I don't feel like telling them, I say it's personal. What business is it of theirs why I can't make it in?

Nevertheless, every manager I've ever worked for has been more than satisfied with my work, because I happen to be an extremely fast and accurate data analyst, due to having an unusually high IQ. That isjust luck. I'm on a contract now that was meant to be three days. It's been three months now, and they're making noises about wanting to keep me forever. Just like the last manager, and the manager before that, and the one before that. You get the picture. I'm a crappy employee by your standards, and I still get noticed, get promoted, regularly get pay hikes in the neighbourhood of 20 to 30 % after being in an office for under 6 months, get elevated to management positions, yada yada yada, all without having to kiss any management *** or act like a slave.

Some managers have balked at my attitude, but there is no force on earth that will convince me there is any qualitative difference between 8:30 and 8:35, or that I should worry about showing up every day when I am naturally able to do the work of three normal employees. If a manager puts too much pressure on, I quit, and they beg me to stay.

* Shrug *. I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything, since this stuff is all pretty meaningless to me, just saying there's more than one way to skin a cat. Different strokes for different folks. You go ahead, pucker up and pass me by. I'm totally fine with that.

 

[Magic Man]

LOL, the one genius in the article [remember the topic of this thread] didn't have the motivation to mail a freaking LETTER!!!

OK, and?