The Cause without a Cause

[samtonga43]

Did Anselm say that?

He said that God is a being than which no greater can be conceived.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You are asking us to accept the possibility that life is no more than “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”. Of course that’s perfectly possible..

It depends what you mean by "possible"..
For me, the "odds" of life having no cosmic significance is so low, that I think it impossible.

 

[RestlessSoul]

God became incarnate in Christ. No need for a messenger.

I see it slightly differently. God is within us all, and we are all His children; Jesus of Nazareth was a man who realised his divine nature, and embodied it as the living Christ. Hence, ye shall know that I am in the Father, and ye in me; and I in you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If God is the uncaused cause, if literally nothing-at-all is responsible for God's existence, what then stops another God from arising from nothing-at-all?

God is not nothing, God is infinitely present. By definition nothing does not exist.

 

[Aupmanyav]

God is not nothing, God is infinitely present. By definition nothing does not exist.

Don't know about God, but will not make a categorical statement about 'a thing' or 'nothing' with Quantum Mechanics looking over my shoulder.

 

[Jimmy]

i think the son plays a vital role in existence.

 

[F1fan]

How about instead of the word 'intention' I use the word 'meaning'? I don't think there necessarily was a consciousness behind it all, at least not in a human way of consciousness, but certainly a meaning. Certainly there is a meaning to this order, why things behave the way that they do?

Again, meaning is something living brains create and assign. Why think the universe has a brain and assifns meaning?

Could it be that humans have a sort of anxiety about being on a planet and have to manage our own meaning in life, and we project this mortal meaning onto the whole of the universe? It's called anthropomorphism.

There is a 'why' behind it all and at some point there must be more to it than 'it is following the physical/mathematical law of X' because even that would need a 'why'. The Why at the beginning of Everything should be non-substantial and not mathematically or physically determined.

I susect you want there to be meaning and purpose beyond what we humans create and assign. The observatives we make do not support this. I asked about flesh eating bacteria and birth defects. Why?

Just because we don't understand doesn't mean they're meaningless.

Do you think humans are a special creature? If so, why are there genes that cause cancers in children? You have to include all the ugly about the wolrd if you are going to assess whether there is reasons and meaning in this universe. And it doesn't stop here. Ask yourself why you want to believe there is meaning in the universe. How do you feel about the likelihood that we humans are on our own on this planet? I'm not saying there isn't other life in the universe, just that a universal God that cares about humans on this remote planet on the outer arms of a galaxy, in a universe of billions of gallaxies seems absurd.

If there's a God then I see earth as being like a trailer park on the edge of town that the police seldom go to if called because there's nothing but trouble going on.

 

[F1fan]

God is not nothing, God is infinitely present. By definition nothing does not exist.

Is this religious belief that lacks evidence and credibility, or are you making a factual claim about reality?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

But why on earth (or as the case may be) would the ghost of Lincoln want to hang around the White House at all? I could understand the ghost of Donald Trump unable to wake from its dream of being President, but Abe?

It makes sense to me why President Lincoln's spirit would linger at the White House. I'm sure he was troubled by what he had to deal with in his personal life and as the president, not to mention worrying about the Civil War during his term in the White House. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if his spirit was deeply troubled and unable to crossover. I've read a few stories about his troubled life.

It is widely accepted in the paranormal field that there are human spirits who are either unable to cross over on their own or refuse to do so because they have unfinished business or died in violent or traumatic circumstances that have left them angry enough to seek vengeance. It is also commonly accepted in the paranormal field that if a person dies suddenly (such as in a car accident or from a fatal heart attack), their spirit may not always be aware that they have died. In these cases, the spirit may be scared and confused and in need of guidance from a psychic medium who can help them accept that they have died and persuade them to cross over into the spirit world. The spirits who are either unable to cross over on their own or who refuse to do so are called "earthbound spirits." I've shared a few of my experiences with these spirits in other threads (read here and read here), if you're interested in learning more.

I can remember times when (a lot younger than now) I've had the creeps (including one where I turned and ran) but that's not the same thing as seeing or hearing or otherwise detecting spooks via the senses.

If you've ever had goosebumps on your arms and the hair on your arms and neck stand up, or if you felt like you were being watched even though you knew you were alone, then you were in the presence of a spirit or spirits. The goosebumps on our arms and the hair on our arms and neck standing straight up, as well as being aware of an unseen presence (the "fight or flight" instinct), are how our bodies react to the disturbance in the electromagnetic fields, which is caused by the energy that emits from spirits. Electromagnetic fields are present everywhere in our surroundings, but we cannot see them. It is widely accepted in the paranormal field that spirits (human and non-human alike) emit electromagnetic energy, creating an area of high electromagnetic frequencies around them.

 

[F1fan]

If God was part of the realm where space and time were not connected, he could move in space without the constraint in time, and/or move in time without the constraint of space. The former is classically called omnipresence, while the latter is classically called omniscience, which are classic attributes of God. The old timers had a good sense of space-time and separated space and time.

It is from the human imagination that all innovation arises, were humans invent and conjure ideas that are not yet part of space-time. In this realm where space and time are not connected, cause and affect do not apply, since connected cause and affect is connected to space-time. Where space and time can both be independent of each other, the first can become the last, and the last can become the first. Monotheism came after polytheism based on human history, yet is was also the first. It is a very esoteric place where the laws of physics are invented and exceeded.

As time goes on the idea of God is less neccessary. It's not used in science at all any more. God has retreated to the churches and minds of believers.

 

[F1fan]

By sending a Messenger?

Think that may have been done.

A lazy God. Or mortal charlatan.

How can you tell the difference?

 

[AlexanderG]

Consciousness of God did not arise naturally, God has always been and has always been conscious and so no cause was needed.
We humans do evil and many say that God should step in and stop that and force us to do only good and that would take away our will and so stop us from being human. God is good naturally and does not been to be forced to do good.

I mean, cool assertions and definitions. I could just assert other things in the same way. For example:

"All the humans that exist are always conscious and no cause is needed." "Everything I do is good, so no one can force me not to do good." "I could stop that man in front of me from molesting that kid, but that would take away his free will and stop him from being human."

Do you see how ridiculous this sounds, when applied to anything that isn't a core emotional part of your self-identity due to your indoctrination? What you said about your god sounds just as ridiculous to non-Christians.

 

[AlexanderG]

I think it is easier to explain it as "something Willed existence to exist (including its own existence)" because Will seems to be the ultimate originator. Do you know what I mean?

Human will is determined by exterior events, just like all things in the universe, but in the end the Great Everything should boil down to something that "just happened without a reason", and the only notable thing for that is "The reason itself is the reason The Great Everything exists"

No, I don't know what you mean. I think it's easier to explain it as energy has always existed. We can see energy, and see that it can't be created or destroyed. We don't see any gods or disembodied wizard minds that can will themselves into existence.

 

[George-ananda]

But why on earth (or as the case may be) would the ghost of Lincoln want to hang around the White House at all? I could understand the ghost of Donald Trump unable to wake from its dream of being President, but Abe?

I think most of us believers are not suggesting Lincoln spends 24/7 still as a ghost loitering in the White House. Most would think he has an active intelligence and shows himself in a familiar place and appearance at some rare times.

 

[George-ananda]

If God is the uncaused cause, if literally nothing-at-all is responsible for God's existence, what then stops another God from arising from nothing-at-all?

That type of speculation cannot be addressed through thought and reason.

My best beliefs are based on those saints/sages/mystic that have stilled the outer waves of their consciousness and experienced their consciousness at a deeper level than I have experienced. And they tell us of a single Source Consciousness that is the basis of all experience.

That is the best belief that I have. But until I experience it myself, I can only hold this to be the most believable theory I've heard.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think most of us believers are not suggesting Lincoln spends 24/7 still as a ghost loitering in the White House. Most would think he has an active intelligence and shows himself in a familiar place and appearance at some rare times.

^ This. I should have mentioned what you said or something similar to it in my post. I didn't think about it at the time. My bad.

 

[George-ananda]

My bad.

No, you 'good'.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If God is the uncaused cause, if literally nothing-at-all is responsible for God's existence, what then stops another God from arising from nothing-at-all?

Um. . God never "arose" from nothing, he always was. So the only way you could have two would be if they had always existed.

 

[F1fan]

Um. . God never "arose" from nothing, he always was.

Assuming God is a boy. And assuming God exists at all. And assuming it exists as you believe, which we have no credible evidence for.

So the only way you could have two would be if they had always existed.

Well some Christians believe Jesus is also God, so that means God could create a lessor (supposedly equal) God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Assuming God is a boy. And assuming God exists at all. And assuming it exists as you believe, which we have no credible evidence for.


Well some Christians believe Jesus is also God, so that means God could create a lessor (supposedly equal) God.

Jesus was not created, he was always part of the one God.
Of course God is not inherently any gender, although he appeared in the flesh as a man.