The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE YmirGF]What you fail to grasp is that it is clearly impossible because Muslims would have to judge the results.(End quote)

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? Prove that muslims have to judge the results.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? Prove that muslims have to judge the results.

*Starts singing*

"Here we go 'round the Mulberry bush, the Mulberry bush, the Mulberry bush..."

 

[Fatihah]

*Starts singing*

"....Here we go 'round the Mulberry bush, the Mulberry bush, the Mulberry bush..."

Response: *Finish singing*

"Here we go 'round the Mulberry bush so early in the morning".

 

[kai]

This simple game involves holding hands in a circle and moving around to the first verse, which is alternated with the specific verse, where the players break up to imitate various appropriate actions.


so all together now ---Here we go round the Mulberry bush----the Mulberry bush--- come on England!---

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: *Finish singing*

"Here we go 'round the Mulberry bush so early in the morning".

Actually its " cold and frosty morning" but it was perhaps subject to some editing

 

[Fatihah]

Actually its " cold and frosty morning" but it was perhaps subject to some editing

Response: I thought I remember Barney and friends saying it that way. Guess I'll just stick to Sesame Street as usual.

 

[England my lionheart]

Just to restart the merry go round again it is said that there are 275 foreign words in the Quran which i list below
[FONT=Arial,Bold]

"[/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Tafaq'a [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Romanian word means" intended to do", as in The Heights chapter
(Surat Al-A'raf) 22
- "[/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-toar [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]"is a Syrian word means "the mountain", as in the Cow chapter (Surat Al-
Baqarah) 63
- "[/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-Raq'im [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Romanian word means "the tablet" as in The Cave chapter (Surat Al-
Kahf) 9
- "[/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Ta-Ha [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Hebrew word as in Ta-Ha chapter
-" [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Senin [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]"is a Hebrew word means "beautiful"
-"[/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]As-Sijjîl [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Persian word means "the book" as in the Prophets chapter (Surat Al-
Anbiya') 104
- "[/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-Istabrek [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]"is a Persian word means "the thick" as in The Smoke chapter (Surat Ad-
Dukhan) 53
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-Soundos [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is an Indian word means" the thin curtain" as in The Smoke chapter
(Surat Ad-Dukhan) 53
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Sariah[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Greek word means " a small river" as in Mary chapter (Surat Maryam) 24
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Meshkat [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is an Ethiopian word means " a niche in the wall" as in the light
chapter(Surat An-Nur)
- "[/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Jouhan'm [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Hebrew word means " the hell" as in the Spoils of War(Surat Al-
Anfal) 36
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-Zakât [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Hebrew word means " the tax from money"
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Sajjîl [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Persian word means "the stony mud"
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Ad-Durie [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is an Ethiopian word means " a shinning planet"
-" [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Nashet-Al lail [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is an Ethiopian word means " wake up by night" as in The One
wrapped in Garments chapter (Surat Al-Muzzammil) 6
- ' [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]keflain [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is an Ethiopian word means " two folds" as the iron chapter (Surat Al-Hadid)
28
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-Q'swara [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is an Ethiopian word means " the lion" as in The One Enveloped
chapter (Surat Al-Muddathir) 51
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-Melah Al-Okhra [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Coptic word means "the first religion" as in Saad chapter
( Surat saad) 7
- ' [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Wara'hom [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Coptic word means "behind them " as in The Cave chapter (Surat Al-
Kahf)
-' [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Bata'nha [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Coptic word means " its external look" as in The Most Gracious
chapter(Surat Ar-Rahman) 54
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Uho'd [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Hebrew word means " one "
-" [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]As-Sam'd [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Hebrew word means" inclusive of all characters"
-" [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Abareeq' [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Persian word means "vessels" as in The Event chapter (Surat Al-
Waqi'ah) 18​

-' [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Injeel [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Greek words means " annunciation[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]

Injeel​

​

[/FONT]​

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Greek words means " annunciation"
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Tabout [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]' is a Coptic word means " a box "
-" [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Saradeq' [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Persian word means " a tent"
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Surah [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Syrian word means " a book chapter "
- " [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Al-Ferdous [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Persian word means " the garden"
- ' [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]At-Taghout [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is an Ethiopian word means " the opposites"​

-' [/FONT][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic][FONT=Arial,BoldItalic]Mao'un [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]" is a Hebrew word means " the pot"
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold]these are just some examples,the Quran is supposed to be in pure Arabic,in fact there are i believe 9 verses saying that,so how does this affect the challenge.
[/FONT]

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: I thought I remember Barney and friends saying it that way. Guess I'll just stick to Sesame Street as usual.

LOL you can't go wrong with Sesame street

 

[kai]

The proof of Mohammed's revelation is that the Arabic of the Qur'an is perfect and pure Arabic, free of foreign influences and lacking in errors which would suggest an imperfect human source. But i thought it was wrote in Qurayshi-dialect ? that would mean that they spoke the Quraish dialect in Paradise.

 

[Zhakir]

So what if Noble Qur'an has an Arabic word of none-Arabic origin,They were used before the Qur'an and they became Part of Arabic.
Example: I'll send to you a message in English and only English"
"Don't drink alcohol for it's harmful"
"Don't drink alma'a-alnjesa for it's harmful"
Alcohol and alma'a-alnjesa are both Arabic.But you will accept "alcohol" as an English word though it's An Arabic loanword in English,and not "alma'a-alnjesa" because it isn't an English word it's only Arabic.
Similarly Allah send a book in Arabic only, and since Arabic has an Arabic word from none-Arabic origin understood by speakers and considered part of the language they also will be used.
Will Anyone in the World who wants to write a book in english aim to avoid the Arabic loanwords in English ?(passed in the Muslims rule of europe)
The list is found here List of Arabic loanwords in English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The answer is no,simply because these word became part of english and understood by the speakers.Syiran,Hebrew,parsian,Ethiopian,Arabic however are sister languages and share close genetic classification,Another thing that pointing nouns of books and people (None-Arab) that Allah sent is meaningless,Allah sent thousands of None- Arabic Messangers who have "none-Arabic names and books" and Allah told us about some of them and there names. Listen.. Point out a word in Qur'an that doesn't exist in Arabic, just like "alma'a-alnjesa" doesn't exist in English.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Could I offer something as possibly passing the challenge? Why does/doesn't this pass the said challenge:

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Could I offer something as possibly passing the challenge? Why does/doesn't this pass the said challenge:

I suppose I should explain. This is the Book of Mormon in Arabic. If inimitability is a sign of divinity, than certainly the Book of Mormon passes this challenge. I doubt anyone could create a similar text. And it passes all of Fatihah's conditions. Joseph Smith is a messenger from God. He received it from an angel. It's words have inspired millions of people to improve their lives. And I am sure 12-13 million people is enough people to conquer a country (Tuvalu for instance with a population of less than 12,000).

 

[Zhakir]

Could I offer something as possibly passing the challenge? Why does/doesn't this pass the said challenge:

First. The Noble Quran says if you doubt this Quran is God's the produce a sura like it,if you think Quran is human made, then show us a human that can produce a Quran like not what you claim is a messanger, by showing us any book that you believe to be from God and claim it's like Quran to meet the challenge,then you mean that Quran is also from God .

Most important:Your Book of Marmon is nothing like the Holy Quran I'll give one reason
It "has" great errors that can't be god's

في عام 600 قبل الميلاد هاجر مجموعة من أسباط إسرائيل من القدس تحت قيادة الرسول لحي إلى القارة الأمريكية، وهذه المجموعة انقسمت بعد وصولها إلى قسمين الأول: واسمهم لامانيين نسوا تعاليم ديانتهم وعقائدهم مع الزمن، وصاروا في النهاية ما يعرف باسم الهنود الحمر. والقسم الثاني: واسمهم نافييس وهؤلاء احتفظوا بعقائدهم وأقاموا مدنًا وحضارة كبيرة، لكن الفريق الأول قام بتدمير حضارة القسم الثاني وإبادتها حوالي عام 400 قبل الميلاد. لكن القسم الثاني استطاع أن يكتب ويسجل عقائده وحضارته على ألواح ذهبية وقام بإخفائها؛ وذلك بمعرفة رسول يُسمى مورمون، ثم قام ابنه وروني بدفن هذه الألواح حوالي 1400 عام حتى أسلمها لجوزيف سميث، وهذه القصة وإن كان بعض المورمون لا يوافقون عليها ويعتقدون أن جوزيف سميث هو كاتب الكتاب المقدس بنفسه وليس نقلاً عن ألواح، لكن الأمر في النهاية لا يعني إلا أن هذا الكتاب عندهم مقدس ومكمل للتوراة.

To say that Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated in 600 B.C is a great error

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerindian#History

See also: Models of migration to the New World, Classification of indigenous peoples of the Americas, Solutrean hypothesis, Kennewick Man, and Pre-Siberian American Aborigines

Scholars who follow the Bering Strait theory agree that most indigenous peoples of the Americas descended from people who probably migrated from Siberia across the Bering Strait, anywhere between 9,000 and 50,000 years ago. The time frame and exact routes are still matters of debate, and the model faces continuous challenges. A 2006 study (to be published in Journal of California and Great Basin Anthropology[when?]) reports new DNA-based research that links DNA retrieved from a 10,000-year-old fossilized tooth from an Alaskan island with specific coastal tribes in Tierra del Fuego, Ecuador, Mexico, and California.[4] Unique DNA markers found in the fossilized tooth were found only in these specific coastal tribes, and were not comparable to markers found in any other indigenous peoples in the Americas. This finding lends substantial credence to a migration theory that at least one set of early peoples moved south along the west coast of the Americas in boats. However, these results may be ambiguous, as there are other issues with DNA research and biological and cultural affiliation.[5]

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

First. The Noble Quran says if you doubt this Quran is God's the produce a sura like it,if you think Quran is human made, then show us a human that can produce a Quran like not what you claim is a messanger, by showing us any book that you believe to be from God and claim it's like Quran to meet the challenge,then you mean that Quran is also from God .

Most important:Your Book of Marmon is nothing like the Holy Quran I'll give one reason
It "has" great errors that can't be god's

To say that Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated in 600 B.C is a great error

Indigenous peoples of the Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think it can be shrugged off this easily. Sure, we don't have any hard proof that people migrated to somewhere in the Americas around 600 B.C. But it is near impossible to prove that they didn't.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

P.S. Notice the words like "most" and "probably". I think the most you will find is that it is unlikely that the events documented in the Book of Mormon are factual. I don't think anyone can completely rule out the possibility that two new families arrived on the scene around 594 B.C.

 

[kai]

are we talking proof here ? if we can accept that Solomon talked to Ants and the prophet split the moon, what's the problem with people migrating to America 600 BC?

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Sorry to burden you all with yet another post. I just had another thought however that I wanted to share. If part of the proof of the work comparable to the Qu'ran is its worldwide influence and its effect on history, does that mean we have to wait a thousand years to determine its veracity?

 

[Zhakir]

I don't think it can be shrugged off this easily. Sure, we don't have any hard proof that people migrated to somewhere in the Americas around 600 B.C. But it is near impossible to prove that they didn't.

:biglaugh::biglaugh:,What are you talking about 600 B.C ?! :biglaugh:now that's impossible
Saying that it is near impossible to prove that they didn't.is totally wrong and proved 100% wrong.
1.Scholars who follow the Bering Strait theory agree that most indigenous peoples of the Americas descended from people who probably migrated from Siberia across the Bering Strait, anywhere between 9,000 and 50,000 years ago.
2.A 2006 study reports new DNA-based research that links DNA retrieved from a 10,000-year-old fossilized tooth from an Alaskan island with specific coastal tribes in Tierra del Fuego, Ecuador, Mexico, and California.[4]
3.Remnants of a human settlement in Monte Verde, Chile dated to 12,500 years B.P. (another layer at Monte Verde has been tentatively dated to 33,000–35,000 years B.P.)
4.The traditional view of a relatively recent migration has also been challenged by older findings of human remains in South America; some dating to perhaps even 30,000 years old or more.

 

[England my lionheart]

So what if Noble Qur'an has an Arabic word of none-Arabic origin,They were used before the Qur'an and they became Part of Arabic.
Example: I'll send to you a message in English and only English"
"Don't drink alcohol for it's harmful"
"Don't drink alma'a-alnjesa for it's harmful"
Alcohol and alma'a-alnjesa are both Arabic.But you will accept "alcohol" as an English word though it's An Arabic loanword in English,and not "alma'a-alnjesa" because it isn't an English word it's only Arabic.
Similarly Allah send a book in Arabic only, and since Arabic has an Arabic word from none-Arabic origin understood by speakers and considered part of the language they also will be used.
Will Anyone in the World who wants to write a book in english aim to avoid the Arabic loanwords in English ?(passed in the Muslims rule of europe)
The list is found here List of Arabic loanwords in English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The answer is no,simply because these word became part of english and understood by the speakers.Syiran,Hebrew,parsian,Ethiopian,Arabic however are sister languages and share close genetic classification,Another thing that pointing nouns of books and people (None-Arab) that Allah sent is meaningless,Allah sent thousands of None- Arabic Messangers who have "none-Arabic names and books" and Allah told us about some of them and there names. Listen.. Point out a word in Qur'an that doesn't exist in Arabic, just like "alma'a-alnjesa" doesn't exist in English.

We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear." (16:103, Yusuf Ali translation
What its should say is "while this is Arabic pure and clear apart from the 270 odd foreign words" and Its interesting that its we instead of i.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

:biglaugh::biglaugh:,What are you talking about 600 B.C ?! :biglaugh:now that's impossible
Saying that it is near impossible to prove that they didn't.is totally wrong and proved 100% wrong.

But why is it impossible? I'm not arguing with the scientific info you posted. I don't see how what the scholars believe and what I believe can't both be true.