The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Zhakir]

We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear." (16:103, Yusuf Ali translation
What its should say is "while this is Arabic pure and clear apart from the 270 odd foreign words" and Its interesting that its we instead of i.

So what if Noble Qur'an has an Arabic word of none-Arabic origin,They were used before the Qur'an and they became Part of Arabic.
Example: I'll send to you a message in English and only English"
"Don't drink alcohol for it's harmful"
"Don't drink alma'a-alnjesa for it's harmful"
Alcohol and alma'a-alnjesa are both Arabic.But you will accept "alcohol" as an English word though it's An Arabic loanword in English,and not "alma'a-alnjesa" because it isn't an English word it's only Arabic.
Similarly Allah send a book in Arabic only, and since Arabic has an Arabic word from none-Arabic origin understood by speakers and considered part of the language they also will be used.
Will Anyone in the World who wants to write a book in english aim to avoid the Arabic loanwords in English ?(passed in the Muslim rule of europe)
The list is found here List of Arabic loanwords in English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The answer is no,simply because these word became part of english and understood by the speakers.Syiran,Hebrew,parsian,Ethiopian,Arabic however are sister languages and share close genetic classification,Another thing that pointing nouns of books and people (None-Arab) that Allah sent is meaningless,Allah sent thousands of None- Arabic Messangers who have "none-Arabic names and books" and Allah told us about some of them and there names. Listen.. Point out a word in Qur'an that doesn't exist in Arabic, just like "alma'a-alnjesa" doesn't exist in English.
--
"Arabiun Mubeen" translated pure and clean Arabic,means exactly clearly understood Arabic.
Do you think we repeat the "We" thing again,it has nothing to do with our topic really,Getting off ^_^?

Islam is a strictly monotheistic religion. It believes in and adheres to uncompromising monotheism. It believes that God is one, and unique in His attributes. In the Qur’an, God often refers to Himself using the word ‘We’. But this does not mean that Islam believes in the existence of more than one God.
Two types of plural
In several languages, there are two types of plurals, one is a plural of numbers to refer to something that occurs in a quantity of more than one. The other plural is a plural of respect.
a. In the English language, the Queen of England refers to herself as ‘We’ instead of ‘I’. This is known as the ‘royal plural’.
b. Rajiv Gandhi, the ex-Prime Minister of India used to say in Hindi "Hum dekhna chahte hain". "We want to see." ‘Hum’ means ‘We’ which is again a royal plural in Hindi.
c. Similarly in Arabic, when Allah refers to Himself in the Qur’an, He often uses Arabic word 'Nahnu' meaning ‘We’. It does not indicate plural of number but plural of respect.
Tawheed or monotheism is one of the pillars of Islam. The existence and uniqueness of one and only one God is mentioned several times in the Qur’an. For instance in Surah Ikhlas, it says :
"Say He is Allah the One and Only."
[Al-Qur’an 112: 1]

 

[England my lionheart]

So what if Noble Qur'an has an Arabic word of none-Arabic origin,They were used before the Qur'an and they became Part of Arabic.
Example: I'll send to you a message in English and only English"
"Don't drink alcohol for it's harmful"
"Don't drink alma'a-alnjesa for it's harmful"
Alcohol and alma'a-alnjesa are both Arabic.But you will accept "alcohol" as an English word though it's An Arabic loanword in English,and not "alma'a-alnjesa" because it isn't an English word it's only Arabic.
Similarly Allah send a book in Arabic only, and since Arabic has an Arabic word from none-Arabic origin understood by speakers and considered part of the language they also will be used.
Will Anyone in the World who wants to write a book in english aim to avoid the Arabic loanwords in English ?(passed in the Muslim rule of europe)
The list is found here List of Arabic loanwords in English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The answer is no,simply because these word became part of english and understood by the speakers.Syiran,Hebrew,parsian,Ethiopian,Arabic however are sister languages and share close genetic classification,Another thing that pointing nouns of books and people (None-Arab) that Allah sent is meaningless,Allah sent thousands of None- Arabic Messangers who have "none-Arabic names and books" and Allah told us about some of them and there names. Listen.. Point out a word in Qur'an that doesn't exist in Arabic, just like "alma'a-alnjesa" doesn't exist in English.
--
"Arabiun Mubeen" translated pure and clean Arabic,means exactly clearly understood Arabic.
Do you think we repeat the "We" thing again,it has nothing to do with our topic really,Getting off ^_^?

Islam is a strictly monotheistic religion. It believes in and adheres to uncompromising monotheism. It believes that God is one, and unique in His attributes. In the Qur’an, God often refers to Himself using the word ‘We’. But this does not mean that Islam believes in the existence of more than one God.
Two types of plural
In several languages, there are two types of plurals, one is a plural of numbers to refer to something that occurs in a quantity of more than one. The other plural is a plural of respect.
a. In the English language, the Queen of England refers to herself as ‘We’ instead of ‘I’. This is known as the ‘royal plural’.
b. Rajiv Gandhi, the ex-Prime Minister of India used to say in Hindi "Hum dekhna chahte hain". "We want to see." ‘Hum’ means ‘We’ which is again a royal plural in Hindi.
c. Similarly in Arabic, when Allah refers to Himself in the Qur’an, He often uses Arabic word 'Nahnu' meaning ‘We’. It does not indicate plural of number but plural of respect.
Tawheed or monotheism is one of the pillars of Islam. The existence and uniqueness of one and only one God is mentioned several times in the Qur’an. For instance in Surah Ikhlas, it says :
"Say He is Allah the One and Only."
[Al-Qur’an 112: 1]

So there is no such thing as pure Arabic,and of course the grammatical errors must be there for a reason as well.

 

[kai]

How does that work in Paradise then? were they speaking the same language before the Quran as After? and when would the Syriac,Hebrew,Persian words etc have entered the language of paradise?

 

[England my lionheart]

They must be multi lingual Kai

 

[kai]

They must be multi lingual Kai

Just wondered how it works up there , did everyone speak Quraish dialect Arabic before the prophet? Someone said it was the language of Ishmael.

 

[elisheba]

We won't need language ( spoken with the physical mouth ). It might be something like whale sounds or high pitched sounds... inaudible...or telepathic type communication. Some consider ancient Hebrew to be what '" a pure tongue will be restored " means. Paleo Hebrew is pictorial.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Hi. I still see no reason why the Book of Mormon doesn't pass the challenge. I'm not saying this means the Qur'an was made up, however. If the Book of Mormon passes the test, it would have some interesting implications. I would like to know on what grounds it is rejected by Muslims.

 

[kai]

Hi. I still see no reason why the Book of Mormon doesn't pass the challenge. I'm not saying this means the Qur'an was made up, however. If the Book of Mormon passes the test, it would have some interesting implications. I would like to know on what grounds it is rejected by Muslims.

It is rejected because they can do nothing other than reject it, their scripture forbids them to consider anything equal to the Quran.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

It is rejected because they can do nothing other than reject it, their scripture forbids them to consider anything equal to the Quran.

But what if it doesn't? Couldn't Allah send another messenger if he wanted? What if the world was so far astray from the right path that he decided to send another prophet to get them back on track? Couldn't he do this?

 

[kai]

But what if it doesn't? Couldn't Allah send another messenger if he wanted? What if the world was so far astray from the right path that he decided to send another prophet to get them back on track? Couldn't he do this?

I suppose he could in theory do as he pleases, but thats not Islamic doctrine is it. Mohammed (PBUH) is the last of the prophets and the Quran is the final revelation from GOD. and thats it really , if you want something else? then Islam is not for you.

 

[Zhakir]

So there is no such thing as pure Arabic,

"Mubeen"Quran used, means clearly understood.

and of course the grammatical errors must be there for a reason as well.

Noble Quran 3:66
Behold! you are they who disputed about that of which you had knowledge; why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge?
You prove your lack of knowledge about the history of the Arabic language.
Grammer rules have been taken from the Quran, so Quran can't have errors.
Arabic grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You now may understand why won't i ask you to show these claimed errors.

 

[Zhakir]

were they speaking the same language before the Quran as After?

Yes Quraish dialect was popular.

How does that work in Paradise then?

Just like how Arabic work on earth in 25 countries now.and amongst Muslims.

and when would the Syriac,Hebrew,Persian words etc have entered the language of paradise?

So what yet people of the paradise will understand it,just how you understand English words from Arabic,Yadisih,Spanish,Irish,Persian and Dutch origin. Or better.

 

[kai]

"Mubeen"Quran used, means clearly understood.

Noble Quran 3:66
Behold! you are they who disputed about that of which you had knowledge; why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge?
You prove your lack of knowledge about the history Arabic languages.
Grammer rules have been taken from the Quran, so Quran can't have errors.
Arabic grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You now may understand why won't i ask you to show these claimed errors.

Its a kind of Linguistic back engineering the Quran once complied became the yardstick, anything that deviated from the Quran was considered in error.

Modern Standard Arabic derives from Classical Arabic, the only surviving member of the Old North Arabian dialect group, attested in Pre-Islamic Arabic inscriptions dating back to the 4th century.[5] Classical Arabic has also been a literary language and the liturgical language of Islam since its inception in the 7th century.


Arabic language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kai]

Yes Quraish dialect was popular.

Just like how Arabic work on earth in 25 countries now.and amongs Muslims.

By learning it?

So what yet people of the paradise will understand it,just how you understand Engkish words from Arabic,Yadisih,Spanish,Irish,Persian and Dutch origin. Or better.

Again by learning it? i understand English because i was taught it at school.


Are you saying that when you get to Paradise you must learn Arabic?

 

[Zhakir]

Hi. I still see no reason why the Book of Mormon doesn't pass the challenge. I'm not saying this means the Qur'an was made up, however. If the Book of Mormon passes the test, it would have some interesting implications. I would like to know on what grounds it is rejected by Muslims.

Sorrt then this challenge is for those who claim that quran is made up,to prduce a sura like by humans,Not what you claim is God's this would mean you're saying Quran is God's Which i hope you do.
First that Book fails to pass the test due its errors that show that joe smith didn't receive from god but rather wrote himself.
Muhammad (saws) is the Final messanger,as Allah said in the Quran (and said in the Injeel sent to jesus (pbuh) that Ahmed will be sent.And we consider Bahu'allah and joe smith (this doesn't even believe in the Quran) liers and will be sent to Hell and are this is what happend when they died.
Quran 6:93
Who is guilty of more wrong than he who forgeth a lie against Allah, or saith: I am inspired, when he is not inspired in aught; and whosaith: I will reveal the like of that which Allah hath revealed? If thoucouldst see, when the wrong-doers reach the pangs of death and the angels stretch their hands out (saying): Deliver up your souls. This day ye are awarded doom of degradation for that ye spake concerning Allah other than the truth, and used to scorn His portents.

 

[Zhakir]

Again by learning it? i understand English because i was taught it at school.
Are you saying that when you get to Paradise you must learn Arabic?

No don't worry about that,Allah (swt) will make us speak it and understand it,it's easy.
There will be time only for Torment in Hell fire or living in Paradise.

Its a kind of Linguistic back engineering the Quran once complied became the yardstick, anything that deviated from the Quran was considered in error.

This is clear,the dialect of the Quran became the standerd Arabic.
Grammer rules have been taken from the Quran, so Quran can't have errors.
Arabic grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[England my lionheart]

So in a nutshell we have a book that isn't in pure Arabic,grammatical errors that cannot be pointed out and contradictions which pointed out but then the goalposts are moved.
Then we have totally unrealistic claims that Muhammed is in the song of Solomon and the Spirit in Deutronomy and John and a challenge that cannot be completed because nobodt knows the criteria or who the Judge is.

 

[Zhakir]

Just by saying "grammatical errors that cannot be pointed out " you prove nothing.
Again understand why won't i ask you to show these claimed errors.
Grammer rules have been taken from the Quran, so Quran "can't have" grammatical errors.

contradictions which pointed out but then the goalposts are moved.

No,they just have been proven not to be so,probably even you are sick of repeating these proofs.
Quran 17:81
And say: "Truth has now arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is by its nature bound to perish."

 

[England my lionheart]

So the Quran can only be Judged by its own proclaimed standard and is so clear in its message that millions of Muslims world wide apart from Quranites cannot read the book without the Ahadith.
I think it summed it up for me when a poster said "without the ahadith how could we perform Salat" thankfully there are Muslims who can see the ahadith for what they are and leave them tucked away 1400 years in the past,sadly there are many more who cannot see past the end of their noses.
This thread has proved something,that the challenge is a modern sham that has be taken out of its context and offered up as a bluff,i mean do Muslims think we are stupid and we would just accept the Quran without scrutiny and IMHO through looking at it has failed to convince me that it is anything other than a book.

 

[kai]

No don't worry about that,Allah (swt) will make us speak it and understand it,it's easy.
There will be time only for Torment in Hell fire or living in Paradise.

Thats good :)

This is clear,the dialect of the Quran became the standerd Arabic.
Grammer rules have been taken from the Quran, so Quran can't have errors.
Arabic grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yes thats exactly what happened , grammer rules were taken from Quran and anything else is wrong. the Quran is the benchmark.