The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Tiapan]

OP seems similar to a version of the semantic debates, as the Christian /Hebrew interpretations of Mary the virgin(?).

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1627247-post5.html

If a culture is literalist then the wording is legally binding and therefore very important. eg The Taliban, Orthodox Jews, The Brethren.

If, as in many different existing cultures, commonsense is introduced (excluded above) then the essence of the written law is used as a guide incorporating local events and circumstance, allowing appropriate flexibility in the legal process. (Mitigating Circumstances)

We all have the same goal which we would all benefit from, the harmonious society, but is it achievable.

Given most conflict today is focused around fundamental religious groups. (overwhelmingly Islamic)
What are the differences that must be resolved to allow our transition to Peace?

Burning girls schools down in the Swat Valley, does not seem, to me, to be appropriate behavior in pursuit of this goal.
And what gets me most is the DEAFENING SILENCE of all Islamic nations on these issues. Are we that different that we must deny half our human population an education?

Sorry started to let my frustration show.

Back to the OP a circular argument has deliberately no logical conculsion, the solution is ignore it. I can not read or write Sanskrit, but I was the first in the world to write the postscript version of it back in 1985. Does that count?

 

[England my lionheart]

actually, its told me quite a lot about the way Muslims think. well worth it :yes:

I agree,it has been enlightening on the way Muslims think,or rather the way they are confined in their thinking and it is not suprise that it fell into the vortex just as scientific miracles in the Quran and other associated threads but yes well worth it.

 

[kai]

whoooopss there it goes! Lol

 

[England my lionheart]

Lol...........

 

[England my lionheart]

This makes interesting reading Crisis in the Muslim Mind

 

[England my lionheart]

I've got to go to a 4 hour meeting,will i stay awake

 

[Sahar]

I had my suspicions! but even though the topic was hit by the vortex, it gave me some valuable insights into how the Vortex is produced and sustained and i dont dig on swine.

whoooopss there it goes! Lol

You are very funny!!

 

[Zindagee Rahmaan]

Okay! Now me here to experience with you, I would like to try my luck….um!

here is verse from holy Quran:

لَّهُمْ فِيهَا مَا يَشَآءُونَ خَالِدِينَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ وَعْداً مَّسْئُولاً

25: 16. "For them there will be therein all that they wish for: they will dwell (there) for aye: a promise to be prayed for from thy Lord."


Paradise is defined with its full characteristics in a proper short statement. I claim that none is here to win in comparative to this statement. I also claim if anyone succeeds to win this race, I will….um…. accept his/her religion and will follow him/her blindly. I think YmirGF would be the first one because he needs followers for his own created ideas.

Come and try for brain storming about “defining Paradise FULLY in a single short statement” without cheating form Quran words.

 

[Fatihah]

In post 727 you were asked:

Response: And of what standard did you accomplish the challenge? Also, another very simple question which can easily be answered with a yes or no:

Have you created a religion and used it's teachings to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation? Yes or no? A very simple question.

So you responded in post 737 with:

A true Muslim will never doubt the Quran. they will never question its perfection in language or content. When an infidel asks (would a Muslim dare to ask ?) Muslims questions like: do you believe the Quran is a miracle? The answer will certainly be ‘yes’ and they will claim honesty in describing their real feelings.


I claim honesty in my feelings too, and thats my standard.



I didnt create the scriptures they were already here, and the answer is yes many times over.

Look at how the denial pours out of you. You couldn't give a direct answer could you? A simple yes or no question and you completely dodge it and do everything but answer the question. You haven't answered the question at all. You were asked whether you have created a religion and used your religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. What happened to a simple yes or no? Instead of a simple "yes" or "no", you produce a paragraph of irrelevance that has absolutely nothing to do with the question. A complete dodge of the question. Simply amazing. You see, despite you and others consistancy to down play the challenge and portray it as if it's not proof of the qur'an as the true word of Allah, with responses of clear denial like yours, all you are actually doing is continuing to add more smiles to the faces of both muslims and non-muslims to the fact that the qur'an is proven to be the true word of Allah(swt) and an even bigger smile on mine. With a response like yours to a simple, direct, "yes" or "no" question, you are actually helping to draw more people to the religion of truth, which is islam, if you only knew. Subhan Allah. Another person's denial is confirmed. Thanks for the confirmation.

Bismillar rahmanir raheem

 

[kai]

In post 727 you were asked:



So you responded in post 737 with:



Look at how the denial pours out of you. You couldn't give a direct answer could you? A simple yes or no question and you completely dodge it and do everything but answer the question. You haven't answered the question at all. You were asked whether you have created a religion and used your religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. What happened to a simple yes or no? Instead of a simple "yes" or "no", you produce a paragraph of irrelevance that has absolutely nothing to do with the question. A complete dodge of the question. Simply amazing. You see, despite you and others consistancy to down play the challenge and portray it as if it's not proof of the qur'an as the true word of Allah, with responses of clear denial like yours, all you are actually doing is continuing to add more smiles to the faces of both muslims and non-muslims to the fact that the qur'an is proven to be the true word of Allah(swt) and an even bigger smile on mine. With a response like yours to a simple, direct, "yes" or "no" question, you are actually helping to draw more people to the religion of truth, which is islam, if you only knew. Subhan Allah. Another person's denial is confirmed. Thanks for the confirmation.

Bismillar rahmanir raheem

can you read english ,if so read my post again !

 

[Fatihah]

can you read english ,if so read my post again !

Response: No need. Post 745 makes it more clearer.

 

[kai]

Response: No need. Post 745 makes it more clearer.

thats not my post, and again what is it with you and conquering nations? maybe you were Alexander in a previous life/

 

[Fatihah]

thats not my post, and again what is it with you and conquering nations? maybe you were Alexander in a previous life/

Response: Simple. I'm answering your request concerning the challenge. It's an amazing thing. How does a person ask for an answer to a question and then question why the person gave them an answer? If you didn't want an answer, you shouldn't ask the question.

 

[kai]

Response: Simple. I'm answering your request concerning the challenge. It's an amazing thing. How does a person ask for an answer to a question and then question why the person gave them an answer? If you didn't want an answer, you shouldn't ask the question.

right back at you

 

[YmirGF]

here is verse from holey Quran:

لَّهُمْ فِيهَا مَا يَشَآءُونَ خَالِدِينَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ وَعْداً مَّسْئُولاً

25: 16. "For them there will be therein all that they wish for: they will dwell (there) for aye: a promise to be prayed for from thy Lord."


Paradise is defined with its full characteristics in a proper short statement.

But Zindy, this is simply an assertion on your part. You have no personal knowledge of the subject and so your opinion on the matter is of little consequence. You THINK it is an accurate description because it is written in your little book and you believe that little book contains no errors.

In my view, your version of Paradise simply does not exist. In this regard, why on Earth would you expect me to rephrase the sentence in a way that conforms to your expectations? Doesn't that strike you as being a bit absurd?

I claim that none is here to win in comparative to this statement. I also claim if anyone succeeds to win this race, I will….um…. accept his/her religion and will follow him/her blindly.

Zingy, why on Earth would you do such a thing? I have no wish for you to give up your faith.

I think YmirGF would be the first one because he needs followers for his own created ideas.

LOL. What you don't realize is that I don't want and am not looking for "followers". Even if you wanted to "follow" me and begged me to accept you I would gently, but firmly, turn you away.

Come and try for brain storming about “defining Paradise FULLY in a single short statement” without cheating form Quran words.

IT is amazing that you think that this poorly rendered collection of words reflects Paradise FULLY. You don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about and yet you claim that you will give up your cherished religion if someone can produce a statement that REFLECTS YOUR UNDERSTANDING better. Like the so-called "challenge", is this supposed to be reasonable?

That aside, I am on record as saying something similar to the following. Based on my personal experience with various states of consciousness this is what I can tell you.

"The environment perceived directly after physical death is unique in that it conforms itself to the expectations of the beholder. Fortunately, this period does not last forever. You don't have to take my word for it, just wait and see."

I am sorry if that does not meet with your preconceived notions of what may be in store for us. But... before you write it off as just so much drivel, try to understand the multi-layered implications of what I am suggesting. In return, I challenge you to PROVE me wrong.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: Simple. I'm answering your request concerning the challenge. It's an amazing thing. How does a person ask for an answer to a question and then question why the person gave them an answer? If you didn't want an answer, you shouldn't ask the question.

Perhaps you should not endeavor to answer questions you are not qualified to answer, my precious.

 

[Fatihah]

Perhaps you should not endeavor to answer questions you are not qualified to answer, my precious.

Response: And perhaps you should not tackle a challenge you know you can't accomplish.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: And perhaps you should not tackle a challenge you know you can't accomplish.

I have no plans to attempt a rigged challenge that no one can succeed at. What IS the point? Again, the so-called "challenge" is not a realistic challenge and I don't understand how anyone with any credibility would think it is.

 

[kai]

I have no plans to attempt a rigged challenge that no one can succeed at. What IS the point? Again, the so-called "challenge" is not a realistic challenge and I don't understand how anyone with any credibility would think it is.

maybe its an obstacle not a challenge! its an obstacle to Muslims from looking at "other" writings.

 

[Fatihah]

I have no plans to attempt a rigged challenge that no one can succeed at. What IS the point? Again, the so-called "challenge" is not a realistic challenge and I don't understand how anyone with any credibility would think it is.

Response: Post 555 of page 56 proves to the contrary.