The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

More denial.

At least you are consistent with it.

Response: Likewise.

 

[McBell]

Response: Likewise.

ah yes, your other infamous denial response.

Like I said, you are consistent with it.

 

[Princess Of Peace]

Response: I have proved it. A miracle is something which is humanly impossible. The only way to show something to be humanly impossible is by showing that that their is no logical evidence that it is possible. And since no one can show that it is possible or prove it to be possibly logically, than it is impossible.

The absence of proof for something doesn't make the opposite true.

Please explain how Muhammed conquering parts of Arabia was "humanly impossible" and prove it was a miracle?

 

[YmirGF]

Despite you all lengthy statement, I just want to show, your statement has no forever hopes as you explain:

Come now, Zindy, by your command of English, I am fairly confident that you don't actually appreciate what I am saying.

"The environment perceived directly after physical death is unique in that it conforms itself to the expectations of the beholder. Fortunately, this period does not last forever. You don't have to take my word for it, just wait and see."

Your point of view has no hopes and Quran gives everlasting hopes, if you are just comparing views Mr. Paul!

Oddly my version means that regardless of what you believe eventually you will see reality as it is. In your version the illusion continues indefinitely. I can't say your version is much to look forward to myself. Have you never considered how utterly boring Paradise would become?

You said, “You don't have to take my word for it, just wait and see”
Quran gives words on it, “a promise to be prayed for from thy Lord”

JUST WAIT AND SEE.

Another important difference is that in your version eternal life is something to pray for, something you have to earn. In my version you already have eternal life so praying for something you already have is just plain weird. Another difference is in your version of reality there is Paradise and Hellfire. In my version of reality neither exists. There is simply the nature of your own reality that you cannot hide from.

I hope now you are able to get my challenge. I was thinking you are enough intelligent that I don’t need to explain you too much statements like you always comes with a lot of paragraphing, yet nothing in…

I rather expect that the problem here is with the understanding of the reader.

Oh, even my shoe will not beg to you!

But you see, THAT is the point. Why on Earth ANYONE would want followers is a bit beyond me. Perhaps it is an ego thing.

You are taking it reasonable because you have no hopes in forever life, much pity on your just death or just a dust in grave.

Wrong. You cannot fathom me, Zindy. I do not hope for something I already have. There is no point in my praying for something I already possess. Just like you already posses what you pray for. The only difference is that for some weird reason you think you need to pray for eternal life because you have been taught to believe you must. That is a subtle, but very important difference.

You said, “IN MY POINT OF VIEW”….
You said, “MY EXPERIENCE”

No provable source you have to follow, how to disprove a person who is self follower?

You comprehension of English is very spotty, isn't it?

 

[Fatihah]

The absence of proof for something doesn't make the opposite true.

Please explain how Muhammed conquering parts of Arabia was "humanly impossible" and prove it was a miracle?

Response: Refer to post 779.

 

[McBell]

Response: Refer to post 779.

Yet that post does not answer the question of how it was "impossible" for Mohammad to do it.

Obviously it was not impossible, he did do it after all.
So that kinda means that it is not a miracle, right?
I mean, after all, he did do it.

Perhaps you mean that for some reason you have not yet explained, it had to be a miracle for Mohammad because perhaps he was unable to do so without Allah's help?

 

[Zhakir]

Yet that post does not answer the question of how it was "impossible" for Mohammad to do it.

Obviously it was not impossible, he did do it after all.
So that kinda means that it is not a miracle, right?
I mean, after all, he did do it.

Perhaps you mean that for some reason you have not yet explained, it had to be a miracle for Mohammad because perhaps he was to ****** to do so without Allah's help?

You will be reported.

So that kinda means that it is not a miracle, right?
I mean, after all, he did do it.

So whenever a miracle is done,do you think you can frustrate it by saying "it's not a miracle, it's done after all :cover:" ?
It's a miracle for a thousand to be defeated by only 313 Muslims .
Quran 3:123-125
“Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude.§ Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down?§ "Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught.§”

 

[McBell]

You will be reported.

For asking a question?
You are merely looking to be offended, aren't you?

So whenever a miracle is done,do you think you can frustrate it by saying "it's not a miracle, it's done after all :cover:" ?
It's a miracle for a thousand to be defeated by only 313 Muslims .

So it is a "miracle" every time the odds are beaten?

 

[kai]

Response: I commend you. I commend you for being the first to actually produce your own scripture. If I could send you all of my frubals or something else I would. But this is just the first step.

Now here is step 2. You take your scripture and go out into the world and tell everyone that you are a prophet from God and that he has revealed this scripture to you. If you yourself do this, and can use this scripture to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation and accept you as their prophet of that nation, I will throw away my kufi and denounce islam immediately. Now to you, this may just be a joke. I sincerely hope it's not and that you actually want to know the truth. If you do, then proceed with step 2. And again, if you succeed, I will denounce islam as a true religion and propogate it as such. That is my promise.

Fatihah what nation did the prophet conquer?

 

[Tiapan]

Response: I commend you. I commend you for being the first to actually produce your own scripture. If I could send you all of my frubals or something else I would. But this is just the first step.

Now here is step 2. You take your scripture and go out into the world and tell everyone that you are a prophet from God and that he has revealed this scripture to you. If you yourself do this, and can use this scripture to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation and accept you as their prophet of that nation, I will throw away my kufi and denounce islam immediately. Now to you, this may just be a joke. I sincerely hope it's not and that you actually want to know the truth. If you do, then proceed with step 2. And again, if you succeed, I will denounce islam as a true religion and propogate it as such. That is my promise.

As you mention part 2 "The take over the nation bit."

Well, Mulga Bill actually achieved that on the way back from Ayers Rock. Here in Australia we have a nice little place called Hut River Province. (see Official Home Site of the Principality of Hutt River )
Which claims to be a nation separate to Australia, has its own passport, stamps and has applied to the UN for membership etc. Well Mulga Bill saw H.R.H. Prince Leonard, and told him of the Lubras words, but being a humble man, he certainly did not declare himself a Prophet. Seeing the strength of truth in these words Prince Leonard was immediately converted and wrote them up and put them on the wall for all to see. Now all his subjects live by these rules. Conquered without a single shot, the words were enough.

So Step 2 would appear to have been achieved, as the literal conditions have been met.

Now about that camel...

Thats right gotta translate it to sanskrit. Any more hurdles? Step 3?

Cheers

 

[Tiapan]

Response: I commend you. I commend you for being the first to actually produce your own scripture. If I could send you all of my frubals or something else I would. But this is just the first step.

Now here is step 2. You take your scripture and go out into the world and tell everyone that you are a prophet from God and that he has revealed this scripture to you. If you yourself do this, and can use this scripture to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation and accept you as their prophet of that nation, I will throw away my kufi and denounce islam immediately. Now to you, this may just be a joke. I sincerely hope it's not and that you actually want to know the truth. If you do, then proceed with step 2. And again, if you succeed, I will denounce islam as a true religion and propogate it as such. That is my promise.

Lets not get carried away here, I feel privileged you offer your services as my first disciple, however I prefer you keep to your current customs and just accept that new ideas can be added.
We'll be even better off if I can secure the rights, we could bring it out as a feature film titled say "Quaran 2 - Return of the Lubra Prophet".

Cheers

PS I always seek the truth because the misguided often come amiss.
PPS Any word on that camel...

 

[England my lionheart]

Quran 3:123-125
“Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude.§ Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down?§ "Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught.§”

Does this mean Henry V should be regarded as a Prophet as he was heavily outnumbered at the Battle of Agincourt or perhaps Lt John Chard at Rorkes Drift,139 British Soldiers against 4,500 Zulus.
To say these battles would were miracleswould be wrong just the same as saying the Battle of Badr was a miracle.

 

[Fatihah]

Quran 3:123-125
“Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah; thus May ye show your gratitude.§ Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down?§ "Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught.§”

Does this mean Henry V should be regarded as a Prophet as he was heavily outnumbered at the Battle of Agincourt or perhaps Lt John Chard at Rorkes Drift,139 British Soldiers against 4,500 Zulus.
To say these battles would be wrong just the same as saying the Battle of Badr was a miracle.

Response: Well, you've found the verse in the qur'an that explains how Muhammad(pbuh) was victorious in work. Frubals for doing your homework. But don't break up the argument. I specifically mentioned what the miracle was, which is not what you've just stated regarding Henry V. For Henry V did not create his own man made religion and use it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. I never said a nation can't conquer a nation or an army can't conquer a larger one. I specifically said that it's humanly impossible to create your own religion and use it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. That is the criteria. Henry V did know such thing.

 

[kai]

Response: Well, you've found the verse in the qur'an that explains how Muhammad(pbuh) was victorious in work. Frubals for doing your homework. But don't break up the argument. I specifically mentioned what the miracle was, which is not what you've just stated regarding Henry V. For Henry V did not create his own man made religion and use it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. I never said a nation can't conquer a nation or an army can't conquer a larger one. I specifically said that it's humanly impossible to create your own religion and use it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. That is the criteria. Henry V did know such thing.

But Fatihah! which nation did Mohammed (pbuh) conquer ?

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah what nation did the prophet conquer?

Response: All of Arabia.

 

[kai]

Response: All of Arabia.

then what was Abu Bakrs battle of Tabuk all about? and if the Prophet had conquered all of Arabia how come Abu Bakr was fighting Arab Christians (such as the Banu Kalb and the Ghassanids ) on the Arabian Peninsular after the death of the Prophet?

 

[Fatihah]

then what was Abu Bakrs battle of Tabuk all about? and if the Prophet had conquered all of Arabia how come Abu Bakr was fighting Arab Christians (such as the Banu Kalb and the Ghassanids ) on the Arabian Peninsular after the death of the Prophet?

Response: Because ufortunately, after the prophet's death, the arab christians and other tribes began to break their treaties and attack the muslims. They refused to pay taxes and broke many of the stipulations in the treaty. After all, the prophet is no longer here. So they felt that they could finally conquer the muslims in his absence. Because of this, an immediate inner struggle emerged between the muslims and those who lived among them, and since Abu Bakr was the caliph at the time, he was forced to war in an effort to defend the muslims and islam.

 

[kai]

Response: Because ufortunately, after the prophet's death, the arab christians and other tribes began to break their treaties and attack the muslims. They refused to pay taxes and broke many of the stipulations in the treaty. After all, the prophet is no longer here. So they felt that they could finally conquer the muslims in his absence. Because of this, an immediate inner struggle emerged between the muslims and those who lived among them, and since Abu Bakr was the caliph at the time, he was forced to war in an effort to defend the muslims and islam.

Ok so he didnt actually conquer the Christian Ghassanids?

 

[Fatihah]

Ok so he didnt actually conquer the Christian Ghassanids?

Response: Not all of them.

 

[Tiapan]

I am still waiting for my camel.....