the CRIME of the western world

[Mr Spinkles]

I would still like to see some specific examples of the West stealing the natural resources of other countries.

I also don't see the connection between prosperity and natural resources in the first place. Many areas of the Middle East are rich in oil, yet much of the Middle East is poor, for example. Singapore has little in the way of natural resources, and yet its extremely prosperous. The natural resources of North and South Korea are identical as far as I know...and yet South Korea is prosperous while North Koreans starve. The real factor here seems to be differences in political/economic systems, not natural resources. It seems to me that the corrupt and wealthy political/business elite in many nations simply use "the West" as a scapegoat while they get rich of their country's natural resources.

 

[Aqualung]

Haven't been to the South East, huh. I've never seen so many trees in my life! I grew up in Utah, so I hardly knew what a tree looked like . Now I'm living in Virginia. You can't see the beautiful scenary for all of the trees.

Fine, fine. But about half the country is just plains, so I'm still sort of right.

I would still like to see some specific examples of the West stealing the natural resources of other countries.

I also don't see the connection between prosperity and natural resources in the first place. Many areas of the Middle East are rich in oil, yet much of the Middle East is poor, for example. Singapore has little in the way of natural resources, and yet its extremely prosperous. The natural resources of North and South Korea are identical as far as I know...and yet South Korea is prosperous while North Koreans starve. The real factor here seems to be differences in political/economic systems, not natural resources. It seems to me that the corrupt and wealthy political/business elite in many nations simply use "the West" as a scapegoat while they get rich of their country's natural resources.

Thank you spinks!:clap

 

[Radar]

I would still like to see some specific examples of the West stealing the natural resources of other countries.

I also don't see the connection between prosperity and natural resources in the first place. Many areas of the Middle East are rich in oil, yet much of the Middle East is poor, for example. Singapore has little in the way of natural resources, and yet its extremely prosperous. The natural resources of North and South Korea are identical as far as I know...and yet South Korea is prosperous while North Koreans starve. The real factor here seems to be differences in political/economic systems, not natural resources. It seems to me that the corrupt and wealthy political/business elite in many nations simply use "the West" as a scapegoat while they get rich of their country's natural resources.

Good post... It's easy to blame instead of taking some personal responsibility.

 

[SoyLeche]

I would still like to see some specific examples of the West stealing the natural resources of other countries.

I also don't see the connection between prosperity and natural resources in the first place. Many areas of the Middle East are rich in oil, yet much of the Middle East is poor, for example. Singapore has little in the way of natural resources, and yet its extremely prosperous. The natural resources of North and South Korea are identical as far as I know...and yet South Korea is prosperous while North Koreans starve. The real factor here seems to be differences in political/economic systems, not natural resources. It seems to me that the corrupt and wealthy political/business elite in many nations simply use "the West" as a scapegoat while they get rich of their country's natural resources.

I lived in Peru for a couple of years, and I heard it described as a begger sitting on a golden bench. That country has all sorts of natural resources, and many of the people are living in poverty. I would have to agree that political and economic systems have much more to do with quality of life than natural resources do.

 

[michel]

I lived in Peru for a couple of years, and I heard it described as a begger sitting on a golden bench. That country has all sorts of natural resources, and many of the people are living in poverty. I would have to agree that political and economic systems have much more to do with quality of life than natural resources do.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe that it is as easy as that. Sure, third world Countries have wealth that they have never tapped themselves.

Take the Congo, in Africa; uranium, diamonds, tin and other precious metals. Sure, the Belgians collonized the Country in the late 1800's, and set up mining companies. At the begining (until, say, the 1930's) the Natives saw little return for what the Colonials took. That changed, and Schools, hospitals were built, and employment given. After Independence in 1960, things ground to a standstill within a short time; the only thing the natives cared about was fighting between themselves, all the tribes, each determined to be No1........they are still at it now.

 

[Radar]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe that it is as easy as that. Sure, third world Countries have wealth that they have never tapped themselves.

Take the Congo, in Africa; uranium, diamonds, tin and other precious metals. Sure, the Belgians collonized the Country in the late 1800's, and set up mining companies. At the begining (until, say, the 1930's) the Natives saw little return for what the Colonials took. That changed, and Schools, hospitals were built, and employment given. After Independence in 1960, things ground to a standstill within a short time; the only thing the natives cared about was fighting between themselves, all the tribes, each determined to be No1........they are still at it now.

Sounds pretty political to me.

 

[SoyLeche]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe that it is as easy as that. Sure, third world Countries have wealth that they have never tapped themselves.

Take the Congo, in Africa; uranium, diamonds, tin and other precious metals. Sure, the Belgians collonized the Country in the late 1800's, and set up mining companies. At the begining (until, say, the 1930's) the Natives saw little return for what the Colonials took. That changed, and Schools, hospitals were built, and employment given. After Independence in 1960, things ground to a standstill within a short time; the only thing the natives cared about was fighting between themselves, all the tribes, each determined to be No1........they are still at it now.

I'm not saying that there aren't other problems, just that you don't have to look to "the West" for the causes, you can look a lot closer to home.

As an aside, in one of the mining centers in Peru, I know of a lot of people that wish that American Corporations still owned the mines. They say that the working conditions, living quarters, and other benefits were much better before the Americans were forced to leave. (I don't really know much about the history, just what I heard from talking to people.)

 

[michel]

Sounds pretty political to me.

I wasn't a matter of politics. It was (and is) a matter of dog eat dog; every potential dictator in the country will bribe his way to some sort of power until he disappears quietly, making room for the next one.

 

[Darkdale]

I wasn't a matter of politics. It was (and is) a matter of dog eat dog; every potential dictator in the country will bribe his way to some sort of power until he disappears quietly, making room for the next one.

Dog Eat Dog is the inevitable result of an absence of civil liberties. I may be a pessimist, but I don't believe either the Middle East or Africa are ready for liberty, for civil rights or democracy. I don't know when they will be, but they are going to continue to be screwed over by oil barrens, dictators and clerics until they are ready for civil order. When Government, Religion or Corporations become the foundation of a society, the society will suffer at the hands of those institutions. If the foundation isn't the people, if it isn't liberty and civil rights, the people will suffer. The people have a responsibility to maintain that for themselves.

 

[michel]

Dog Eat Dog is the inevitable result of an absence of civil liberties. I may be a pessimist, but I don't believe either the Middle East or Africa are ready for liberty, for civil rights or democracy. I don't know when they will be, but they are going to continue to be screwed over by oil barrens, dictators and clerics until they are ready for civil order. When Government, Religion or Corporations become the foundation of a society, the society will suffer at the hands of those institutions. If the foundation isn't the people, if it isn't liberty and civil rights, the people will suffer. The people have a responsibility to maintain that for themselves.

And unfortunately, I think I may know one reason why. You cannot 'bring a country' up to speed by introducing cultutal and technical evolution that has taken 150 years to develop in the west, in 50 years in third world countries. It just doesn't work.

 

[Mujahid]

Its Geography my friend, the futher North you go
, the more water you have, and rivers, forests, etc. That's got nothing it do with justice. Just the way the Earth spins around the Sun.

Cheers

K

no reply

 

[Mujahid]

You come hang out in the Everglades with me; with the crocodiles, alligators, pythons, water-moccasins, and where people have been exsanguinated by mosquitos and then tell me about "easy to use".

only a small portion of forests in north america

So would you like to compare population densities? How abotu Europe vs. Siberia?

europe is full of honey and cream man while siberia is ICE

Hunger? How about central America vs Singapore?

why didn't you take "central america" inside your "political borders"?

How is "the west" taking the rights of India or China?

taking the rights of ALL other people

Pick your area and I'll tell you how their situation is their own fault.

you're right that there are unjust leaders and governors,ignorance in every part of the world,but i'm not talking about that,i'm talking about the all-just distribution of everything in earth between EVERYONE

 

[Darkdale]

you're right that there are unjust leaders and governors,ignorance in every part of the world,but i'm not talking about that,i'm talking about the all-just distribution of everything in earth between EVERYONE

Sorry pal, communism lost. Even socialism has adapted to relatively free markets. You've got no right to anything from our soil and I have no right to anything in your soil. You know how it is that stuff gets from there to here? We buy it. We fund the Middle East. The money just doesn't make it to the people and that isn't our fault. We pay for our goods.

 

[JerryL]

Dog Eat Dog is the inevitable result of an absence of civil liberties. I may be a pessimist, but I don't believe either the Middle East or Africa are ready for liberty, for civil rights or democracy. I don't know when they will be, but they are going to continue to be screwed over by oil barrens, dictators and clerics until they are ready for civil order.

They will be ready the day that they pull themselves from their own morass and take it.

 

[Mujahid]

Sorry pal, communism lost. Even socialism has adapted to relatively free markets. You've got no right to anything from our soil and I have no right to anything in your soil. You know how it is that stuff gets from there to here? We buy it. We fund the Middle East. The money just doesn't make it to the people and that isn't our fault. We pay for our goods.

it's not my soil or your soil,it's the earth of God

 

[Mujahid]

ahhhh,i read my reply to jerryL now and i've noticed it has been EDITED,i don't know WHO did that,but i'm sure his/her intentions are not AT ALL clean

 

[greatcalgarian]

ahhhh,i read my reply to jerryL now and i've noticed it has been EDITED,i don't know WHO did that,but i'm sure his/her intentions are not AT ALL clean

There are only 17 moderators for this. So you can PM each one of them to express your appreciation on their editing

Or you can repost your original post and ask for the reason of editing:149:

 

[greatcalgarian]

Evidence floating right in front of your eyes, that many on this thread close their eyes to, like the ostrich burrying the head under the sand:
For example:
(1) The Wealth of the West Was Built on Africa's Exploitation Britain Has Never Faced Up to the Dark Side of its Imperial History
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=2&ItemID=8934
Dr Richard Drayton is a senior lecturer in imperial and extra-European history since 1500 at Cambridge University. His book The Caribbean and the Making of the Modern World will be published in 2006.

(2) A more general discussion on Imperialism on Wikipedia and other online encyclopedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/i/im/imperialism.htm

(3)

In this section, I will argue that the European expansion of modern history has its source in a particular synthesis of sedentary Christianity and nomadism on its frontier. Exploiting nature, which entails organising for protection against its vagaries, from the start involves a human group in the relationship with other human groups.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Units/CGPE/events/conferences/BISA_Conference_2003/conference_papers/Van_der_Pijl_BISA_2003.doc

(4) A short write up on British Empire:
http://pages.britishlibrary.net/empirehist/history.htm

Commercial interests, rather than territorial ambition, dictated the growth of the early Empire: England in the 16th century was a poor country, lacking the wealth of Portugal and Spain and so unlike the Spaniards and Portuguese, the English were neither missionaries nor colonists. When the English put to sea it was to seek immediate profits. This pattern began to change in the 17th century as the English realized the huge commercial potential of overseas acquisitions, starting with the lucrative exploitation of produce from the West Indies.

(5) A good bedtime story to read and reflect by Noam Chomsky
[font=Arial, Helvetica]The Prosperous Few and the [font=Arial, Helvetica]Restless Many
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/pfrm/pfrm-contents.html
[/font][/font]

 

[greatcalgarian]

Among these theories, our focus will be on the dependency theory, which describes the situation of the third world from a number of angles. The early Marxist view held that the rise of modern capitalism was due in large part to the exploitation of the once colonial third world. The industrial revolution could never have been so successful without the resources available in the third world. This leads to the next phase of the dependency theory. With the colonial powers becoming increasing economic giants, multinational corporations find the colonies as being captive markets. These companies use their capital and buying power to help refresh their impoverished economies, making them dependent on the developed nations. The third phase of the dependency theory focuses with the development of the "core" versus the "periphery" nations. The "core" states are the producers of finished goods and technology, comprising mainly of highly developed nations, the once imperialist colonial countries. The "periphery" is made up of those countries that have been unable to develop their own markets, economy, and industry. The core develops a strong interest in the economy of the periphery, giving them great control and influence not only on the economies, but also the politics of the periphery.

This is a good article to read from the perspective of a Muslim(?):
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/6453/politics.html

 

[greatcalgarian]

ahhhh,i read my reply to jerryL now and i've noticed it has been EDITED,i don't know WHO did that,but i'm sure his/her intentions are not AT ALL clean

I might have found the answer for you:bounce
Read this:

If I may, if there are any of those among us that don't have English as their first language, I would love to act as an emissary, since I think a good deal of our misunderstanding is due to how we phrase things. (For example, things might sound aggressive when people are simply trying to learn about something.)

I would be more than happy to find other ways of phrasing things so that people's posts are not seen as accusatory. Please PM me, and I can suggest ways to re-word it, if you'd like. You can then run it by your friends to make sure I have not changed what you are trying to say, because I wouldn't want to be doing that.

Let us be forever gentle to each other, and work toward furthering understanding between all faiths.