Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Well, if there's a differentiation-
Maybe there is no creation, then. Maybe that's just a fib, and the God who claims it is fibbing to sound more powerful.
What if it's really 'Manipulatism'?
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The Debate of God.
- Thread starter Daviso452
- Start date
Maybe there is no creation, then. Maybe that's just a fib, and the God who claims it is fibbing to sound more powerful.
What if it's really 'Manipulatism'?
godnotgod
Thou art That
Thief
Rogue Theologian
All this 'stuff' has been created.
It could be the process does continue...elsewhere.
Otherwise it's manipulation.
And if you have the ability to do things without your hands?.....
Creation is yours?
Could be.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Except, you really don't know that. You simply assume it's different because you've been trained to think of your God in superlatives that don't necessarily have to be born out by any facts whatsoever.
See, you KNOW Manipulatism happens. You DON'T know if creation happens.
confused453
Active Member
Why debate, and not ask the God instead? How hard would it be for The God to post in this forum?
godnotgod
Thou art That
We're all already doing that, in disguise, of course! Just look at you, God pretending to be confused453. Nice gettup!
waitasec
Veteran Member
this may seem weird, especially coming from me, but "god" can be found in the discourses people have...
god = gaining a new perspective.
confused453
Active Member
We're all already doing that, in disguise, of course! Just look at you, God pretending to be confused453. Nice gettup!
That's cool, but I don't feel being a God. I was really talking about God/Allah/Jehovah god. I don't wish to pretend, I only want the ultimate truth.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
Genesis...Chapter One...creation.
Genesis...Chapter Two...manipulation.
God in terms of superlatives?...of course.
Almighty is a term...self explanatory.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Except when it stops making sense. Which might be everywhere.
(For instance, God cannot be infinitely intelligent.)
godnotgod
Thou art That
I just gave it to you, but you failed to recognize it because you are still seeking, and in the state of Identification, in which you imagine yourself a separate ego from God called "I".
That which you are seeking is causing you to seek.
You are also the God of Allah/Jehovah, which you project as some 'other', separate from your 'self', when in reality, there is no 'self or other'.
The wave is never separate from the sea from which it emerges, and you have never, ever been separated from the One Source you call God. 'Separation' is your delusion.
You are 'IT", as we and everything else is also "IT". Realizing that fact is called Enlightenment.
But do not become entrapped by the notion of you being God. Think of it as God playing all the parts of his 'creation', all at once, and having become identified with it so thoroughly that it forgets who and what it is. Right now, God is playing the part of confused453, for one, pretending not to know he is doing so.
Is it conceivable to you that the God you seek is a playful God, who loves a good game of Cosmic Hide and Seek? Now, just look into the face of this world. What do you see? You see infinite variety. The mind responsible for the manifestation of this infinitely varied world is a mind that loves variety, and variety comes about through the activity of play. Did you suppose the 'creation' to be a serious matter? If you do, then you see the God of Jehovah/Allah as meaning what they say, and fail to see past their poker-faced masks. Do you suppose that God was serious when he told Adam and Eve NOT to eat of the 'Forbidden Fruit', knowing full well that they would?
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
I just gave it to you, but you failed to recognize it because you are still seeking, and in the state of Identification, in which you imagine yourself a separate ego from God called "I".
That which you are seeking is causing you to seek.
You are also the God of Allah/Jehovah, which you project as some 'other', separate from your 'self', when in reality, there is no 'self or other'.
The wave is never separate from the sea from which it emerges, and you have never, ever been separated from the One Source you call God. 'Separation' is your delusion.
You are 'IT", as we and everything else is also "IT". Realizing that fact is called Enlightenment.
But do not become entrapped by the notion of you being God. Think of it as God playing all the parts of his 'creation', all at once, and having become identified with it so thoroughly that it forgets who and what it is. Right now, God is playing the part of confused453, for one, pretending not to know he is doing so.
Is it conceivable to you that the God you seek is a playful God, who loves a good game of Cosmic Hide and Seek? Now, just look into the face of this world. What do you see? You see infinite variety. The mind responsible for the manifestation of this infinitely varied world is a mind that loves variety, and variety comes about through the activity of play. Did you suppose the 'creation' to be a serious matter? If you do, then you see the God of Jehovah/Allah as meaning what they say, and fail to see past their poker-faced masks. Do you suppose that God was serious when he told Adam and Eve NOT to eat of the 'Forbidden Fruit', knowing full well that they would?
So you would have the listener abandon his sense of.... 'I'....
all the while calling him....'you'.
'You' do realize 'you' speak with forked tongue?
That 'you' refer to anyone else as 'you'....clearing indicates 'you' recognize them as a separate ego.
Of course, dropping the practice of using such pronouns is virtually impossible.
Especially when 'you and I' really do exist.
godnotgod
Thou art That
My use of both 'you' and 'I' is purely a matter of convention. In reality, there is no 'you' or 'I' that exists, just as there is no such 'thing' or entity as 'river'. There is only flowing water. There is no thinker of thoughts; there is only thinking itself. Otherwise, if you can show me the exact and precise location of the agent of thinking you refer to as "I", 'twould be most appreciated.
Here:
[youtube]OAVM_Xk_o9E[/youtube]
Alan Watts - "I" - YouTube
Thief
Rogue Theologian
'You' are sitting at your keyboard looking at your screen.
godnotgod
Thou art That
No, there is no "I" doing any such thing: there is only the event of 'screen-looking', without a 'screen-looker'. What you think of as "I" or "you" is nothing other than the universe looking at itself through 'your' eyes.
There is no 'river' that flows; there is only flowing water.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
godnotgod
Thou art That
It's like God: you are the one advancing the proposition, not I. Therefore, the burden of proof is incumbent upon you. Likewise, you claim an "I" exists. Show it to me. You can't because there is no such animal. You just entertain the delusion because your ego loves being stroked, and does everything in its power to perpetuate the illusion that it is real.
There is no "I" that keeps responding; there is only response itself, without an agent of response. Get it?
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
godnotgod
Thou art That
It can be shown to you that there is no 'self and other'. That 'self and other' are One is the default position. If they were not, there would necessarily be division between them. Where does this division, this 'separation', occur?
Now, will you demonstrate the exact and precise location of this "I", that you (who is none other than the fictional "I") claim exists.
Now you have two tasks to attend to: show us the loci of the "I" entity, and, show us that it is separate from God.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
And God is in there...with 'you'?
That fact that you have thoughts indicates you're on you're own.
Unless of course you think you're part of something like the Borg in Star Trek fame.