The Debate of God.

[Willamena]

God is a magician, who creates everything out of nothing?

He [is and he] isn't?

 

[KidatHeart]

God is a magician, who creates everything out of nothing?

Out of the energy of imagination. Energy and mass can sometimes be interchangeable.

 

[godnotgod]

Out of the energy of imagination. Energy and mass can sometimes be interchangeable.

Imagination is a feature of consciousness.

Consciousness is energy?

 

[Looncall]

Out of the energy of imagination. Energy and mass can sometimes be interchangeable.

Watch out for this kind of new-agey equivocation.

These two kinds of energy are not equivalent. One is merely metaphorical.

 

[Ouroboros]

God is a magician, who creates everything out of nothing?

He has a top hat called nothing.

 

[Ouroboros]

Watch out for this kind of new-agey equivocation.

These two kinds of energy are not equivalent. One is merely metaphorical.

E=mc^2

 

[Ouroboros]

Imagination is a feature of consciousness.

Consciousness is energy?

Quantum consciousness is a curious topic, especially to itself.

 

[godnotgod]

He [is and he] isn't?

Just following the logic here.

From the classic scientific and religious views, something cannot come from nothing, but that is assuming that the 'something' in question is 'real'.

If the universe is only a grand illusion, a manifestation rather than a creation, then there is no original material that must be accounted for. In this case, everything comes out of nothing.

However, many religionists do indeed claim that God created a real universe out of sheer nothing.

And now cutting edge science is practically saying the same thing.

 

[godnotgod]

He has a top hat called nothing.

'He' IS no-thing itself. That is how 'He' can be every-thing.

Something can only be defined against a background of nothingness.

Solid can only be understood against a background of Space.

 

[godnotgod]

Quantum consciousness is a curious topic, especially to itself.

In terms of the idea that consciousness is a local phenomena, perhaps, but when consciousness is seen as non-local, as that which is behind the behavior observed in Quantum Mechanics, then no.

 

[Ouroboros]

'He' IS no-thing itself. That is how 'He' can be every-thing.

Something can only be defined against a background of nothingness.

Solid can only be understood against a background of Space.

Reminds me of the old joke:

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

 

[Ouroboros]

In terms of the idea that consciousness is a local phenomena, perhaps, but when consciousness is seen as non-local, as that which is behind the behavior observed in Quantum Mechanics, then no.

My statement wasn't all too serious, just so you know.

Anyway, it's obvious that consciousness is very dependent on space, time , matter, energy, processes, etc. But at the same time, it has a continuation of existence even though we constantly change matter in ourselves. It's the Jason and the argonauts and the identity of the boat. One philosopher said that both dualism and monism are wrong, so reality is more of a ba-stard monism.

 

[Thief]

You are saying that the Absolute is relative. 'Alone' here means that there is no 'other'. That is why it can be called the Absolute. It does not mean something separate from something else; there is no 'something else'.

The Absolute did not 'make' anything; it already IS everything. If you don't understand this, then your mind thinks some 'other' had to be 'created'. You are not seeing correctly.

So now your leaning to the notion that substance....just happens.

The spirit that you are is chemical bound.
And the grave is the end of your hope and life.

 

[Halcyon]

But at the same time, it has a continuation of existence even though we constantly change matter in ourselves.

Does it?

If you observe the mind you'll notice that it isn't a continuous, interrupted flow. Rather, it's more like a series of separate yet interrelated snapshots, built around a basic feedback loop. One thought/experience filters back to the brain which induces another.
In addition, modern analysis suggests that the conscious mind is actually just a phenotypic expression of a host of underlying, unthinking neurological processes. Much like the graphics of a computer program or game are a basic representation of the far more complex underlying code. The conscious mind simply acts as an interface, allowing the brain to better interact with and process data harvested by the sense organs. You believe you are having spontaneous thoughts and emotions, when actually they are the end product of biochemical interactions, their nature determined by the brain long (relatively speaking) before they are given mental or verbal expression.
We aren't what we think we are.

 

[Thief]

My statement wasn't all too serious, just so you know.

Anyway, it's obvious that consciousness is very dependent on space, time , matter, energy, processes, etc. But at the same time, it has a continuation of existence even though we constantly change matter in ourselves. It's the Jason and the argonauts and the identity of the boat. One philosopher said that both dualism and monism are wrong, so reality is more of a ba-stard monism.

As monism.... a blend of spirit and body?

 

[Thief]

Does it?

If you observe the mind you'll notice that it isn't a continuous, interrupted flow. Rather, it's more like a series of separate yet interrelated snapshots, built around a basic feedback loop. One thought/experience filters back to the brain which induces another.
In addition, modern analysis suggests that the conscious mind is actually just a phenotypic expression of a host of underlying, unthinking neurological processes. Much like the graphics of a computer program or game are a basic representation of the far more complex underlying code. The conscious mind simply acts as an interface, allowing the brain to better interact with and process data harvested by the sense organs. You believe you are having spontaneous thoughts and emotions, when actually they are the end product of biochemical interactions, their nature determined by the brain long (relatively speaking) before they are given mental or verbal expression.
We aren't what we think we are.

The portion in red...yeah.
What you really are stands from the dust after your last breath.

 

[Halcyon]

What you really are stands from the dust after your last breath.

Believe what you desire to.

 

[Thief]

Believe what you desire to.

well of course....

But I believe for cause and reason.....not because it makes me feel good.

On the contrary...most people....when they hear the things I hold true....
wander off.

My greatest hope is to say as it is.
That way...when my Maker comes around to see what came of the dust....
He won't wander off.

 

[atanu]

Does it?

If you observe the mind you'll notice that it isn't a continuous, interrupted flow. Rather, it's more like a series of separate yet interrelated snapshots, built around a basic feedback loop. One thought/experience filters back to the brain which induces another.
In addition, modern analysis suggests that the conscious mind is actually just a phenotypic expression of a host of underlying, unthinking neurological processes. Much like the graphics of a computer program or game are a basic representation of the far more complex underlying code. The conscious mind simply acts as an interface, allowing the brain to better interact with and process data harvested by the sense organs. You believe you are having spontaneous thoughts and emotions, when actually they are the end product of biochemical interactions, their nature determined by the brain long (relatively speaking) before they are given mental or verbal expression.
We aren't what we think we are.

Thief is correct, however. As per you, conscious mind is actually just unthinking neurological processes.

But you still seem to possess the ability to know and assert "We aren't what we think we are".



As per your understanding,

 

[Ouroboros]

Does it?

If you observe the mind you'll notice that it isn't a continuous, interrupted flow. Rather, it's more like a series of separate yet interrelated snapshots, built around a basic feedback loop. One thought/experience filters back to the brain which induces another.

Except that you still think of you being you after you have changed. The continuation of your identity isn't broken. Your experience might be, but will you suddenly feel that you're not you anymore or that your memories aren't your either?

In addition, modern analysis suggests that the conscious mind is actually just a phenotypic expression of a host of underlying, unthinking neurological processes. Much like the graphics of a computer program or game are a basic representation of the far more complex underlying code. The conscious mind simply acts as an interface, allowing the brain to better interact with and process data harvested by the sense organs. You believe you are having spontaneous thoughts and emotions, when actually they are the end product of biochemical interactions, their nature determined by the brain long (relatively speaking) before they are given mental or verbal expression.
We aren't what we think we are.

Agree that we aren't what we think we are, but we are something that we are. Just because we aren't what we think we are, doesn't mean that we are nothing at all. We do feel, interpret, consider, think, and in a progressive manner that is riding upon the wave of those snapshots of existence.

Besides, consciousness must be a potential of reality or it wouldn't exist, not even as an illusion. It being an illusion doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, only that it's something else than we think it is. And as such, it's integral to reality and nature.