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The Debate of God.

confused453

confused453

Active Member
Prophet said:
Yes, being's BODIES are made of elements but I am not talking about gravity's effect on a being's BODY when I say authority. Your reduction that a sentient being is merely a physical thing is the type of ignorance that makes beings irrationally fear that an authority can end their existence by ending their lives.
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What is a sentient being then, if it is not merely a physical thing?
What other thing there is, other than physical, anyway?
What about parental authority?

Without authority, humanity wouldn't have a direction. There's good authority and there's a bad one, or when one goes out of control and there's corruption. But I don't see what's wrong with authority in general.
 
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Prophet

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
confused453 said:
What is a sentient being then, if it is not merely a physical thing?
Click to expand...

Consciousness.

What other thing there is, other than physical, anyway?
Click to expand...

See above.

What about parental authority?
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Parental authority is rooted in the ignorance of their children. Good parents work to abolish this authority with proper education. Poor parents work to increase their power over their children by proliferation of ignorance.

Without authority, humanity wouldn't have a direction. There's good authority and there's a bad one, or when one goes out of control and there's corruption. But I don't see what's wrong with authority in general.
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I never said authority is inherently bad. I said authority is a shadow cast by ignorance. Good bearers of authority accept power cautiously and use it for the good of all, while bad authorities crave power to satisfy their selfish desires and will often proliferate ignorance to increase their power.
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
confused453 said:
So do you people (godnotgod and prophet) believe in god or not? A god as described in monotheistic religions, I mean.
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I can only speak for myself:

I neither believe, nor not-believe.

Think neither god, nor not-god.

The god of the monotheistic religions is anthropomorphic, created by man, and then projected outwards, in man's own image. Much of the Bible's references to God and his behavior do not reflect that of the true nature of Reality that is of a supreme intelligence. Deuteronomy 12-20 describes a jealous, angry, racist, and partisan God who may as well be a psychotic serial killer. Yaweh is the absolute authoritarian at his worst, a God who murders his own son for payment of a minor infraction by Adam & Eve as a means of assuaging his never-ending rage, an infraction that essentially was a sting operation on the part of the ruthless maniacal and psychotic-schizoid God. The God of the Old Testament is a prop set up by the ruthless temple priests as a means of controlling their congregations via fear and intimidation, in order to extract tribute from them to insure their passage into a fake heaven. The account of Genesis is a good example of a corrupted text, which actually achieves separation from God, while the original version acheives divine union with God. The priests wanted to push the idea of separation from an angry omnipotent God to further their own selfish ends.

The whole point of nurturing a spiritual life is to attain liberation from suffering and realize one's true potential, in other words, real happiness. As long as you are ruled and controlled by the God of the Bible, you will never be free. Now, having said that, I am NOT saying you can do anything you want. The authentic spiritual path is more demanding than that of the orthodox believer, but one crucial difference is that, while the other-directed othodox believer sees a God in some distant heaven, having power over all, the man of the inner spirit is inner-directed by a powerful intelligence that never exerts its authority via force. Because it does not do so, it is a true authority. The external authority of the believer is an egoic projection that is not real.
 
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confused453

confused453

Active Member
So you're saying that a king who's controlling his kingdom by constant fear and punishment, is not a true authority.
A king who's controlling his kingdom by reason and feedback from his nation is a true authority?
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
confused453 said:
So you're saying that a king who's controlling his kingdom by constant fear and punishment, is not a true authority.
A king who's controlling his kingdom by reason and feedback from his nation is a true authority?
Click to expand...

That there exists an anthropomorphic God is one thing; that he is the king in a monarchical, hierarchical system is another. Both are egoic projections and superimpositions onto the natural order and intelligence of the universe.
 
Prophet

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
confused453 said:
So you're saying that a king who's controlling his kingdom by constant fear and punishment, is not a true authority.
A king who's controlling his kingdom by reason and feedback from his nation is a true authority?
Click to expand...

Both are true authorities, but they have very different aims.
 
confused453

confused453

Active Member
godnotgod said:
That there exists an anthropomorphic God is one thing; that he is the king in a monarchical, hierarchical system is another. Both are egoic projections and superimpositions onto the natural order and intelligence of the universe.
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Intelligence of the universe; really? Have you even met anybody alive outside the planet earth?

What are your thoughts on Humanism?
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
PolyHedral said:
The properties of components are not properties of the whole.
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Not seemingly so in their peculiar outward characteristics, but at their universal base, everything is the same, but that is not my point. Nothing is separate from the universe. The universe is the singular all. There is no 'other'. It is one and absolute. You and I and everything else emerges from the universe. It is both the source and the manifestation of the source, just as the 'snake' is actually the rope.

Actually, the 'components' you refer to are expressions of the universe, since everything is interconnected, so their properties are also 100% part and parcel of the universe. All such properties are produced by the universe, and fully contained within it at all times.

I cannot for the life of me understand why it is that so many of you who worship your science, insist and persist on the idea of wanting to be separated from the universe. Perhaps it is science itself that dissects and clinically examines everything in terms of its 'parts' that is to blame for such thinking. No matter how you slice it, everything continues to remain interconnected with everything else. Any idea of 'separation' is only in the mind.
 
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confused453

confused453

Active Member
godnotgod said:
Not in their peculiar outward characteristics, but at their universal base, everything is the same, but that is not my point. Nothing is separate from the universe. The universe is the singular all. There is no 'other'. It is one and absolute. You and I and everything else emerges from the universe. It is both the source and the manifestation from the source.
Click to expand...

A brain is nothing but a bubble with a collection of memories. The conciousness or a self, is the universe itself looking on itself from a point of view of that bubble, with a purpose of not getting bored to death (entertainment :dancer:).
That means that there is no right or wrong, true or false, but just the choices made by the universe, based on each memory bubble. That also means that there's no separate selves, but just one universe, playing with itself.

Try to disprove that.

You see, I can come up with believable stories too, but that doesn't make it true, until it can be examined, measured, re-created, maybe controlled, and so on... When somebody believes in something (without having empirical evidence), his/her imagination is having an absolute authority over that person, and so that person fails to see the truth.

Is it also very possible that our brains cannot yet comprehend the true reality, as it can't comprehend the light outside the optical range of spectrum. The true reality probably hurts, just like the radiation :D
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
PolyHedral said:
Sure there is. I can define an other to refer to. It makes the modelling easier.
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I am using the word 'universe' as the one, all-inclusive entity, to include even multi-verses. If there were a definable 'other' then the universe would no longer be a uni-verse. Any 'other' you can come up with is included within 'universe'. There is no 'other'. Thus, the universe is Absolute. In fact....

'The universe is the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'

in the same way that a rope is mistakeny seen as a snake through the filter of the conditioned mind.

But by all means, please proceed with your definition.
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
confused453 said:
A brain is nothing but a bubble with a collection of memories. The conciousness or a self, is the universe itself looking on itself from a point of view of that bubble, with a purpose of not getting bored to death (entertainment :dancer:).
That means that there is no right or wrong, true or false, but just the choices made by the universe, based on each memory bubble. That also means that there's no separate selves, but just one universe, playing with itself.

Try to disprove that.

You see, I can come up with believable stories too, but that doesn't make it true, until it can be examined, measured, re-created, maybe controlled, and so on... When somebody believes in something (without having empirical evidence), his/her imagination is having an absolute authority over that person, and so that person fails to see the truth.
Click to expand...

What does any of the above have to do with the topic you and i were discussing? This is your original comment:

Originally Posted by confused453
Intelligence of the universe; really? Have you even met anybody alive outside the planet earth?
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Does intelligence require form? And what is the origin of form, but formlessness? You are an intelligent form. Answer my question: What did you emerge from?

Sometimes we say: 'I came INTO the world'. You did no such thing; you came OUT of the world.
 
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confused453

confused453

Active Member
I guess I was trying to point out that we as humans should not make daily decisions based on our beliefs (religion or spirituality) because none of it is probably true, but make the decisions based on the real physical world.
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
confused453 said:
I guess I was trying to point out that we as humans should not make daily decisions based on our beliefs (religion or spirituality) because none of it is probably true, but make the decisions based on the real physical world.
Click to expand...

However, the 'real physical world' turns out to be not so 'real' or 'physical' after all, as demonstrated by Quantum Mechanics. Anything considered 'physical' turns out to be nothing but energy. E=mc2 demonstrates the conversion of one to the other and vice versa. But your response is besides the point, and does not answer my question:

You are an intelligent being. Where do you come from?
 
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