the devil speeks at UN

[retrorich]

He makes me want to wear an American flag and run through the streets of Caracas.

George W. Bush makes me want HIM to wear a bull's-eye target and run through the steets of Iraq.

 

[lilithu]

Ha! Lilithu my wounds from our last lterary duel have almost healed after you retreated from the fray, and these clowns do not annoy me , it amuses me to see how some people look up to these thugs and their Anti america gang.

Yeah, all that American power that you look up to and yet these guys can still come to the UN and criticize its abuses and the only thing that you can do is vent on RF.

and you wouldnt be buying it if they didnt grow it unless you agree that cocaine is the real thing

I don't buy coke. But if I did, I wouldn't be blaming the supplier for my addiction.

Did you google Iran Contra cocaine? Or maybe CIA cocaine. It is more than hypocritical for the U.S. to be trying to shut them down.

 

[kai]

Yeah, all that American power that you look up to and yet these guys can still come to the UN and criticize its abuses and the only thing that you can do is vent on RF.

well to tell you the truth power doesnt impress me much, the likes of chavez and mugabe are certainly not worth looking up to thats for sure and yes i do look up to America in a way i have traveled extensively in my life and one of the places i was most welcomed was America and i for one will not stand by and watch the uncalled for critisism from jumped up dictators or petty presidents who terrorise and murder thier own people or for that matter religious maniacs who want us all to return to the middle ages

I don't buy coke. But if I did, I wouldn't be blaming the supplier for my addiction. well we have a problem with it here,i thought the US had one too

Did you google Iran Contra cocaine? Or maybe CIA cocaine. It is more than hypocritical for the U.S. to be trying to shut them down.

yes i remember it , but looked it up , cant see the relevance to anything thats happening in 2006 though?

 

[lilithu]

don't buy coke. But if I did, I wouldn't be blaming the supplier for my addiction.
well we have a problem with it here,i thought the US had one too

Yes, the U.S. has a problem with it. That is my point. We are creating the demand, and then we go around blaming others. Why should it be that the suppliers are to blame here and not the consumers? And it's especially hypocritical since we have at times been the suppliers.

Did you google Iran Contra cocaine? Or maybe CIA cocaine. It is more than hypocritical for the U.S. to be trying to shut them down.
yes i remember it , but looked it up , cant see the relevance to anything thats happening in 2006 though?

What a selective view of history! How far back does "relevance" go for you? Is it just a measure of time? Do you not also take into account when our "changes in policy" mirror what's expedient for us? No one can "stand on principle" if their own principles change to suit their whims.

 

[kai]

Yes, the U.S. has a problem with it. That is my point. We are creating the demand, and then we go around blaming others. Why should it be that the suppliers are to blame here and not the consumers? And it's especially hypocritical since we have at times been the suppliers.

What a selective view of history! How far back does "relevance" go for you? Is it just a measure of time? Do you not also take into account when our "changes in policy" mirror what's expedient for us? No one can "stand on principle" if their own principles change to suit their whims.

so we are blaming bush for the reagan years now
olivia's President, Evo Morales, also had a prop. A former coca grower, he held up a coca leaf during his speech and castigated the United States for what he called its neo-colonialist efforts to eliminate coca production.

and you agree with him because of the contra affair in the eighties
.

 

[lilithu]

so we are blaming bush for the reagan years now
olivia's President, Evo Morales, also had a prop. A former coca grower, he held up a coca leaf during his speech and castigated the United States for what he called its neo-colonialist efforts to eliminate coca production.

and you agree with him because of the contra affair in the eighties
.

Oh I see, so every time the U.S. elects a new president anything that was done before no longer counts. I'll be glad of that when we finally get Bush out of office.

And are you actually ceding that what Reagan did was wrong and suggesting that Bush is better? How amusing on both fronts.

I've stated my argument several times. If we provide a market for the stuff then it's hypocritical to at the same time blame them for production. Whether that's neo-colonialist or not, I don't know. But it is hypocritical. The fact that we used to be suppliers as well when it suited our needs is just gravy.

 

[kai]

Oh I see, so every time the U.S. elects a new president anything that was done before no longer counts. I'll be glad of that when we finally get Bush out of office. i suppose you will

And are you actually ceding that what Reagan did was wrong and suggesting that Bush is better? How amusing on both fronts. i am not ceding or suggesting anything you brought it up

I've stated my argument several times. If we provide a market for the stuff then it's hypocritical to at the same time blame them for production. Whether that's neo-colonialist or not, I don't know. But it is hypocritical. The fact that we used to be suppliers as well when it suited our needs is just gravy.

have you ever met a crack addict Lilith?because thats the market your talking about.theres a human factor in this equasion of yours and i dont care what some people in the administration did 20 years ago if the current one is trying to get rid of class A drugs then i am all for it wherever that is.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

now come on do we loan them or did we build them
sorry man wrong again
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmdfence/835/835.pdf

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/slbm/d-5.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_navigation

Dude I dont care IF I am wrong about the exact details and posting a few links means nothing.
The USA leases a part of our own nuclear deterrent to us and also allows us to use their sattelites to target and deploy them (if need be)

Just looking at the sites briefly reveals no information on ownership, you are just posting a few random related threads to support your weak arguements, I hate debating with ppl like that.
You need quotes dear chap...grrr.

You may try to cloud it up with your point scoring pointlessness but the fact remains, we do not have full independant control over our own weapons, this may not matter to your kind but sooner or later there wil not be many 'people' like you left in the UK and we may actually get rid of these Yanks once and for all...

You Kai are an example of what needs to change, why don't you go live in America?
Go live with your friends...never come back.

I have nothing against the people of the USA but anyone who kow tows to the US govenment is not my friend...nor any friend of the people of the UK.

 

[darkpenguin]

the sooner the uk parts company with the great ol us the better im sick of us being americas lapdog, were like the playground bullys henchman its rediculous! if a world war were ever to break out again in the future i can seriously see it being against america, a very scary but potentialy real scenario indeed.

 

[spacemonkey]

Dude I dont care IF I am wrong about the exact details and posting a few links means nothing.
The USA leases a part of our own nuclear deterrent to us and also allows us to use their sattelites to target and deploy them (if need be)

You may try to cloud it up with your point scoring pointlessness but the fact remains, we do not have full independant control over our own weapons, this may not matter to your kind but sooner or later there wil not be many 'people' like you left in the UK and we may actually get rid of these Yanks once and for all...

You Kai are an example of what needs to change, why don't you go live in America?
Go live with your friends...never come back.

I have nothing against the people of the USA but anyone who kow tows to the US govenment is not my friend...nor any friend of the people of the UK.

Hmmmm....if you didn't invent, build, maintain, or have the means to control said weapons, how exactly are they "your own weapons"?

Seeing that link to the INS brings me back....
The INS boxes in F/A-18's are colored gold, we were told that was to remind us that they are worth their weight in gold, literally (and they're pretty heavy).

 

[Simon Gnosis]

the sooner the uk parts company with the great ol us the better im sick of us being americas lapdog, were like the playground bullys henchman its rediculous! if a world war were ever to break out again in the future i can seriously see it being against america, a very scary but potentialy real scenario indeed.

You said it brother...

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Hmmmm....if you didn't invent, build, maintain, or have the means to control said weapons, how exactly are they "your own weapons"?

Exactly...

We can build our own nukes, we process Uranium into fissile Plutonium ourselves with our fast breeder reactors, its just cheaper to use the system the US offered us.
France builds her own bombs, I am sure we could too, if we had to.

Edit
I just KNOW the French would be delighted to show us the way and perhaps flog us some designs or form a new nuclear defence system in conjunction with France and other European powers.
In fact a militarily strong Europe would be a bonus to the USA, at last a potential ally with some real teeth.
If America loses its current unholistic legislative executive and returns to the ideals that made it great then there is no reason the EU and USA cannot be true partners and strong allies.

 

[spacemonkey]

Exactly...

We can build our own nukes, we process Uranium into fissile Plutonium ourselves with our fast breeder reactors, its just cheaper to use the system the US offered us.
France builds her own bombs, I am sure we could too, if we had to.

There is alot more that goes into producing ICBM's and high precision guided munitions then just producing the uranium. I would have to say our weapons are propbably the most reliable and accurate, considering 90% of taxpayers money in the US goes to defense contracters

 

[Simon Gnosis]

There is alot more that goes into producing ICBM's and high precision guided munitions then just producing the uranium. I would have to say our weapons are propbably the most reliable and accurate, considering 90% of taxpayers money in the US goes to defense contracters

Iam sure, but remember its not like we intend to use an ICBM system...we could use a submarine based system as we do now, easily within our technological grasp.
Besides if we can make mars landers (albiet crap ones) jump jets and nuclear reactors, we can make missles, have no doubt.:yes:
We just require deployment systems...
Or we could simply drop em out of an aircraft...any fool can build a simple nuclear
device.
Edit
Regarding costs..
Incidently we would not need the many thousands you lot have stockpiled, after all a single low yield weapon say 50 Kt is more than enough to totally destroy a city the size of New York or London...

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Iam sure, but remember its not like we intend to use an ICBM system...we could use a submarine based system as we do now, easily within our technological grasp.
Besides if we can make mars landers (albiet crap ones) jump jets and nuclear reactors, we can make missles, have no doubt.:yes:
We just require deployment systems...
Or we could simply drop em out of an aircraft...any fool can build a simple nuclear device.

But yeah the point I was making to ol Kai is that we don't have soverign control over our nuclear deterrent it is the hands of no offence..aliens..that is unacceptably dangerous and undemocratic.
I mean if we wanted to nuke YOU how could we?
Using your systems?
Not saying we should or would, but suppose the USA did something so bad we had to nuke you (or be in a position to threaten nuclear deployment)..or nuke someone the US didnt want nuked...what then?

I ******* hate nuclear weapons...

 

[kai]

Dude I dont care IF I am wrong about the exact details and posting a few links means nothing.
The USA leases a part of our own nuclear deterrent to us and also allows us to use their sattelites to target and deploy them (if need be)
for some reason you wont accept that britain has a independant nuclear arsenal, well you must have your reasons.
Just looking at the sites briefly reveals no information on ownership, you are just posting a few random related threads to support your weak arguements, I hate debating with ppl like that.
You need quotes dear chap...grrr.

"Ha Ha Ha I proved each childish argument totally wrong" theres your quote dear chap

You may try to cloud it up with your point scoring pointlessness but the fact remains, we do not have full independant control over our own weapons, this may not matter to your kind but sooner or later there wil not be many 'people' like you left in the UK and we may actually get rid of these Yanks once and for all...which yanks?

You Kai are an example of what needs to change, why don't you go live in America?
Go live with your friends...never come back.What an odd thing to say you really must learn to admit when you are wrong its a sign of being a man

I have nothing against the people of the USA but anyone who kow tows to the US govenment is not my friend...nor any friend of the people of the UK.

a purile statement based on a fiargo of twisted fact

 

[kai]

But yeah the point I was making to ol Kai is that we don't have soverign control over our nuclear deterrent it is the hands of no offence..aliens..that is unacceptably dangerous and undemocratic.
I mean if we wanted to nuke YOU how could we?
Using your systems?
Not saying we should or would, but suppose the USA did something so bad we had to nuke you (or be in a position to threaten nuclear deployment)..or nuke someone the US didnt want nuked...what then?

I ******* hate nuclear weapons...

right for once and for all show me some evidence that we do not have soveriegn control over our nuclear deterent

THE EXPECTED LIFE OF THE TRIDENT SYSTEM
1. The UK’s current nuclear deterrent capability comprises several elements: first, the nuclear warheads,
which were designed and manufactured in the UK by the Atomic Weapons Establishment; second, the
Trident D5 missiles, which were procured from the United States under the Polaris Sales Agreement (as
amended for Trident); third, four Vanguard-class nuclear powered submarines, built at Barrow-in-Furness
by what was then Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering Limited, who also designed the bulk of the
submarine; and finally a range of logistic infrastructure—at the naval facilities at Coulport (weapons
handling and storage), Faslane (submarine basing) and Devonport (submarine refit and maintenance).​

source house of commons defence comitee report, link given to you in previous post

 

[Simon Gnosis]

right for once and for all show me some evidence that we do not have soveriegn control over our nuclear deterent

THE EXPECTED LIFE OF THE TRIDENT SYSTEM​

1. The UK’s current nuclear deterrent capability comprises several elements: first, the nuclear warheads,
which were designed and manufactured in the UK by the Atomic Weapons Establishment; second, the
Trident D5 missiles, which were procured from the United States under the Polaris Sales Agreement (as
amended for Trident); third, four Vanguard-class nuclear powered submarines, built at Barrow-in-Furness
by what was then Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering Limited, who also designed the bulk of the
submarine; and finally a range of logistic infrastructure—at the naval facilities at Coulport (weapons
handling and storage), Faslane (submarine basing) and Devonport (submarine refit and maintenance).​

source house of commons defence comitee report, link given to you in previous post

Kai your a pain do you know that?

I provided proof earlier.
I am tired of debating this with you, ask a senior member of the British army, thats whom told me originally.
But anway Kai you talk a load of rubbish, I KNOW I am right, the website I quoted earlier is right, YOU are wrong.
'Our' nukes are guided by US sattelites ANYWAY so it is academic who owns them (even if I am wrong which I am definately not) as they are guided/permitted by the US itself
You are a disinformer and a bad one.

I showed your posts to some colleagues btw and they laughed out loud.
We were discussing this subject earlier in the week..we decided you were CIA lol

 

[kai]

Kai your a pain do you know that?

I provided proof earlier.
I am tired of debating this with you, ask a senior member of the British army, thats whom told me originally.
But anway Kai you talk a load of rubbish, I KNOW I am right, the website I quoted earlier is right, YOU are wrong.
'Our' nukes are guided by US sattelites ANYWAY so it is academic who owns them (even if I am wrong which I am definately not) as they are guided/permitted by the US itself
You are a disinformer and a bad one.

I showed your posts to some colleagues btw and they laughed out loud.
We were discussing this subject earlier in the week..we decided you were CIA lol

I am glad i am a pain if that gets you to admit your wrong i will ask the senior officer if i could, are you sure he wasnt a frenchman? Oh you know your right, now listen carefully the trident has an inertial guidance system i have shown you the links and you have ignored them who are your colleagues? the popular front for the liberation of tooting, because he who laughs last laughs loudest.

evidence my friend is stacked against you admit it now and spare yourself the terrible embarrassment, listen carefully simon you can hear me laughing all the way from langley

 

[Simon Gnosis]

I am glad i am a pain if that gets you to admit your wrong i will ask the senior officer if i could, are you sure he wasnt a frenchman? Oh you know your right, now listen carefully the trident has an inertial guidance system i have shown you the links and you have ignored them who are your colleagues? the popular front for the liberation of tooting, because he who laughs last laughs loudest.

evidence my friend is stacked against you admit it now and spare yourself the terrible embarrassment, listen carefully simon you can hear me laughing all the way from langley

As my quote from the Association of Arms Control states.

"The United Kingdom leases its Tridents from the US Navy"

Enuff said.

Now why don't you explain all those CIA flights from British soil that apparently our government knew nothing about?

Then I will bring up something else...again and again until you realise that the US is not our friend..never was...never will be.
I put it to you that your sympathy and admiration for the US is unfounded and actually quite dangerous.

Where is your loyalty to Britain and to our European allies?

You can spout as many websites as you like but you are still wrong.

So laughing boy, keep laughing....he who laughs last laughs longest.

Incidently you have consistently tried to antagonise me..but failed.
I am not a petty debate point scorer..who's only concern is being SEEN as right about something.
I dont care what anyone on this forum thinks of me, good or ill, as long as my posts are empirical, thats all that matters...you can jibber jabber away if you like but I was bored of listening to your toadying ages ago.

Go live in america man, if it is so great...if you want I will pay for your one way plane ticket (1st class) on the promise you will never return for more than a week or so to see family and friends (assuming you have any).