The earth is 13,000 years old and it is soon to be renewed when Christ comes

[FFH]

I posed 3 questions though. You half-way answered the first one - by specific I mean individual instances of scientists gaining power, position, or money due to some group of people thinking evolution is true.

Well if you get your theory published you're gonna get a nice monetary kick back from the publisher...is that not motivation enough to send people scrambling to crank out a theory that appeals to the public...

Charles Darwin published his thesis and benefitted from selling his thoeries. Guess he though he could make more money selling theories than facts...

Real life is dull, fantasy is exciting...or so we think...

I have experienced what it's like to be in the spirit realm, for a few seconds, where things are not dull, but extremely intense...

This life is dull, the afterlife is not....

I know an extremely popular LDS writer and he almost overnight became very wealthy, with his first publication... Is this not the same reason why Darwin and other evolution theorists work so hard at coming up with the best theory, which people will "buy" into?

It's no secret, money, power, position or recognition motivates most of us to do what we do.

How many of us say things just to get a few more frubals. So it's true that money does not always motivate us to do what we do, there are other reasons behind the propogation of misleading scientific theories.

 

[FFH]

Actualy he was forced to study that. He first studied medicine but was put off by the brutality of surgery. He expresed a great interest in natuaral history and did well inscience classes. He graduaed 10th out of a class of 178. So he was a man of some native inteligence. Just because you do not have a degree in somthing does not mean you are not qualified to talk about somthing or persue scholarship. I have a BA in philosophy with a minor in european history. What's your degree, since you seem to need one to be right. (Jesus never went to college. Aristotle did not have a phd)

Most people on this thread have pointed out that most creation scientists do not have credible science degrees, so apparently it's a prequalifier in order to invalidate any know thoery. Just pointing out the fact that Charles Darwin had no science degree either and yet many buy into his theories as basically fact.

I dropped out of the University of Utah, after taking a philosophy class, in which the T/A was so wired on whatever that I felt ripped off, having payed for a class I dispised, yet could not get an accounting degree unless I took verious philosophy courses. I was so floored I left the University of Utah at the end of that term...I was extremely disappointed with the quality of education I was receiving and could not afford better.

Decided to drop out and work full time and study my religion more fully. I felt compelled to study all there was to know about my religion. I feel I've accomplished that to the degree that all my questions have been answered, for now.

Just trying to share what I know is true...

 

[Prometheus]

It's no secret, money, power, position or recognition motivates most of us to do what we do.

Like writing a fictional book and making up a new religion.

 

[FFH]

FFH,
I may not necessarily agree with your methods, but that was very informative and helpful in understanding how you think and come to your conclusions.

Yeah, I hoped that helped. That's the best I can do..

 

[FFH]

And that's fine. If something helps you get through the day, it's not my place to say you're not allowed. I mean if you concede that your personal feelings of a spiritual presence and ability to discern good from evil are not testable and cannot be demonstrated in an objective manner, then I'm glad you still want to get along with others on the forum.

Oh no, I test these feelings with plenty of meditation and study on these matters.

I'm not done yet, with this evolution vs creation debate, just sitting back and taking it all in, will get back on it for sure, just taking a break. You will see I also have a sense of humor.

Will get back to Sunstone's thread or start my own concerning this debate.

I guess we just sort of mirgrated over here for now..

 

[FFH]

Wow this video is still going, didn't realize it was 2 and a half hours long.

Creationist Kent Hovind

http://video.google.com/url?docid=-...&hl=en&usg=AL29H20xF-2w31gxw39TFAhn-rHBblvfqA

 

[Papersock]

I know an extremely popular LDS writer and he almost overnight became very wealthy, with his first publication... Is this not the same reason why Darwin and other evolution theorists work so hard at coming up with the best theory, which people will "buy" into?

Maybe we should never believe anything anyone teaches. They're probably just making it up for money, power, or just for attention.

I'm almost pessimistic enough to think that way. But I think many (if not most) people actually believe what they say. I assume that for most everyone on this forum.

 

[FFH]

What would you say if I told you that I used the same maethod but came up with answers diffrent then you. Also this method is not logical. Could your anxiety not be the result of fear in the colapse of your world view. If you find that you are wrong you could find your whole way of thinking about the wordl in shambles. So it is possible that your anxious feelings are not caused by the holy spirit but because they do not fit into your preexisting conceptions of reality and truth. If you are feeling anxious right now could it be because I am right and you fear the implications? If you took anti anxiety medication and then reexamined some statements wouldn't the truth change. lastly you cannot judge scientific evidence using non-scientific methods. They are diffrent types of knowledge and neither one can critique the other.

I'm not talking about uncontrollable anxiety, but controlled feelings, which are designed to warn...

I am constantly warned or urged to do or not do certain things...

Interesting if you break that down, con/science, it becomes contrary to our understanding of science to know something before it is known...

I knew the earth was young before I was told it was old...

 

[FFH]

Maybe we should never believe anything anyone teaches. They're probably just making it up for money, power, or just for attention.

I'm almost pessimistic enough to think that way. But I think many (if not most) people actually believe what they say. I assume that for most everyone on this forum.

Yeah, true, good point...not all of us are posting here just to obtain more frubals I guess...

 

[Zeno]

Wow this video is still going, didn't realize it was 2 and a half hours long.

Creationist Kent Hovind

Did he just refer to National Geographic as "National Pornographic?"
I will have to excuse myself for momentarily taking a serious approach to this video.

Oh no, I test these feelings with plenty of meditation and study on these matters.

Meditation is still a subjective test. What I was referring to in my post was objective, empirical tests.

 

[FFH]

The oldest living plant should fit within the 7,000 year creation model and within my 13,000 year old proposed age of the earth.

According to the Biblical time frame, that I've layed out, the first plants and trees were created, and started to grow, baginning in the year 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago...

The King Clone creosote bush is 11,700 years old, according to Jim Cormett, curator of the Palm Springs Desert Museum and is possibly the oldest living thing on earth, discovered in the Mojave desert, Palm Springs, California.

First 1,000 year period of creation starts 11,000 BC/13,000 years ago
Earth was without form and void
Water was upon the whole face of the earth
Light created

Second 1,000 year period starts 10,000 BC/12,000 years ago
Firmament/heavens/skies created
Waters divided between earth and the firmament/heavens/skies

Third 1,000 year period starts 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago
Land and waters divided
Dry land appears and seas form
Plants and trees of all kinds created

The World's Oldest Living Thing
King Clone Creosote Bush 9,700 BC/11,700 years old

The Oldest Germinated Seed approximately 10,000 years old

Fourth 1,000 year period starts 8,000 BC/10,000 years ago
Sun, moon and stars created
Day and night begins

Fifth 1,000 year period starts 7,000 BC/9,000 years ago
All creatures of the sea and skies created

Sixth 1,000 year period starts 6,000 BC/8,000 years ago
All creatures of the land created
Adam and Eve created

Seventh 1,000 year period starts 5,000 BC/7,000 years ago
God rested from all his labors
Adam and Eve commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

4,004 BC/6,000 years ago
Time of the fall

2,800 BC/ 4,800 years old
Oldest Living Tree (Bristlecone Pine)
The oldest Bristlecones are found at elevations of 10,000 or 11,000 feet

2,304 BC/ 4,300 years ago
Time of flood

See this page: Date of the flood

 

[yossarian22]

Peh.
An old tree does not support your claim in the slightest.
We have radioactive dating, which can go back a helluvalot further then organics ever could.
You doubt that radioactive dating works? Go spend some time next to some uranium and your position will change.

 

[Tiberius]

Aw, not this rubbish again.

Is this the "Let the thread rest until everyone's forgotten your old arguments and then post the same old crap again" style of debate?

besides, if the oldest living thing is in California, was the garden of Eden there as well?

 

[FFH]

Aw, not this rubbish again.

Is this the "Let the thread rest until everyone's forgotten your old arguments and then post the same old crap again" style of debate?

besides, if the oldest living thing is in California, was the garden of Eden there as well?

The Location of the Garden of Eden

 

[yossarian22]

The Location of the Garden of Eden (

1 2 3)
FFH

Uh, wrong continent. If it was anywhere, it would be in Africa, the birthplace of homo sapiens

 

[FFH]

Uh, wrong continent. If it was anywhere, it would be in Africa, the birthplace of homo sapiens

The Garden of Eden could have spanned over all areas of the earth, when the continents were one...

Most likely the Garden of Eden was contained within North Americam but here's another theory I drew up in that thread....

Terms in parenthesis added by FFH

Genesis 2: 10-14

10- And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11- The name of the first is Pison that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah (America), where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia (Africa).

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel (Tigris) that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria (Asia). And the fourth river is Euphrates (Europe)

Location of the Garden of Eden

 

[yossarian22]

The Garden of Eden could have spanned over all areas of the earth, when the continents were one...http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/48763-location-garden-eden-3.html

Great.
You believe in Pangaea. Continents take hundreds of thousands of years to move, hence, you just admitted that the earth is much older then what you claim.

 

[FFH]

Great.
You believe in Pangaea. Continents take hundreds of thousands of years to move, hence, you just admitted that the earth is much older then what you claim.

You have absolutely no proof of the continents taking a gazillion years to move...

During the flood, the earth tilted on it's axis, the continents broke apart and were flooded by "the fountains of the deep" (the waters beneath the surface of the continents), due to the shifting of the earth's axis...

The continents drifted apart during the time of the flood, when the earth shifted/tilted on it's axis..

The Arc drifted from North America to the Mountains of Ararat

Sounds ridiculous ?????

Well that's just how evolution theories sound to me.

To each his own...

 

[Seneca]

I love when Creationsists roll out that small percentage of scientific 'evidence' they have gleaned from their pro-Creation websites to backup their claims about the world's age. These views seem to propagate unchanging and are latched onto by new generations of fundies and creationists who don't bother to even read about the alternative views or the dissections of those arguments they support and hold onto them with blind ignorance. Nothing like balanced reading! If they did, they might realise that the 'reasons' expressed here are all either based on dubious application of science and reasoning or else easily explained.

I work in minerals and anyone who has done ANY longterm reading around coal can tell you that the 'coal' argument within young earth theory and it's polystrata fossils can tell you it is a pile of rubbish. Polystrata fossils for example (the term itself is a creationist 'glorification' name to describe a very common and explainable phenomenon) have been known since the 1800s and are well understood and explained by geologists today without rethinking the whole history of the Earth and the length of time taken to produce coal.

I suggest some further reading of things other than just Creationist websites to get a balanced view.

 

[Fluffy]

Sorry, can't offer any proof, just faith/assurance in/of the truths written in scripture....

Okay so in place of proof, what lead you to this belief as opposed to another? Is it a feeling of rightness (Can't think of how else to put it) or is there something else?