The EDL

[Aquitaine]

The BBC does have more than just Choudary on TV; they like to choose from a variety of nutters; that way it looks (only looks) less like bias.

I have to admit, though, they absolutely love Choudary.

The British forms of Islam are frequently Deobandi and Wahhabi -- neither of which are exactly great movements IMO...

An article I read on the Independent yesterday argued that people like Choudary should not be banned from appearing in Media, but should instead be invited on as much as possible. The reasoning was that if you give them enough air-time they will be shown as the laughing stock of Britain, just like when Nick Griffin went on Question Time and got ridiculed and humiliated.

 

[Breathe]

An article I read on the Independent yesterday argued that people like Choudary should not be banned from appearing in Media, but should instead be invited on as much as possible. The reasoning was that if you give them enough air-time they will be shown as the laughing stock of Britain, just like when Nick Griffin went on Question Time and got ridiculed and humiliated.

Nick Griffin? More like Peter Griffin.

 

[Sakeenah]

York Mosque praised for offering EDL protesters tea

BBC News - York Mosque praised for offering EDL protesters tea

 

[HiddenHijabi]

I wonder to what extent peaceful Muslims are taking strong & proactive steps to report, rein
in, & otherwise vigorously oppose the violent crazies of their faith. After all, they're in the
best position to know of & stop the carnage. It would be great if the EDL didn't have compelling
reasons to exist.

It's a two-way process though- how many people out there in the British population would listen to Muslims telling them about Islam, even if every single word they were saying was true? It's a sad fact but althroughout the last millenia, constant bias against Islam and even outright hatred has spawned pretty much every rumour that even now are still common among the average non-Muslim population: Muhammad (saw) was a sexual pervert who married and then raped a 9 year old (it's not as clear-cut as this), he was a savage warlord who used religion to gain power, he used his revelations for short-term gain, that the Qur'an was an invention copied from Christian/Jewish sources, that his inspiration was Satan etc.

I'll paraphrase Karen Armstrong in saying that the Christian church, in failing to treat Islam and outside cultures as being of their own value, and treating non-Christians as second-class sub-humans, has failed a major test.

What amuses me is how racist they are portrayed.

A lot of what I see is national pride. You don't have to be white working class to have national pride. They are going the right way about things by incorporating every race and religion into their organisation. That way idiots who want to dismiss them as racists and white supremacists actually have to come up with a better argument.

Their hand was forced. It's like the BNP where it was only public pressure which guaranteed membership for non-Christians and minorities. The main body of the group is also still white, working-class Christian men.

Go on TV, get themselves around the community. It's not hard. Seems like they'd rather do nothing then complain about how racist everyone is for not understanding them

Read my statement to Revoltingest above. Also, many mosques do actually do outreach and dawah.

 

[HiddenHijabi]

York Mosque praised for offering EDL protesters tea

BBC News - York Mosque praised for offering EDL protesters tea

I was reading this on Reddit's Islam section. I personally think it's awesome.

 

[darkendless]

It's a two-way process though- how many people out there in the British population would listen to Muslims telling them about Islam, even if every single word they were saying was true? It's a sad fact but althroughout the last millenia, constant bias against Islam and even outright hatred has spawned pretty much every rumour that even now are still common among the average non-Muslim population: Muhammad (saw) was a sexual pervert who married and then raped a 9 year old (it's not as clear-cut as this), he was a savage warlord who used religion to gain power, he used his revelations for short-term gain, that the Qur'an was an invention copied from Christian/Jewish sources, that his inspiration was Satan etc.

If they are not interested in understanding Islam they shouldn't have to educate themselves to appease a new ideology being forced into their lives. They have problems because muslims radicals either move to Britain or are born there and become radicalised and start mocking the values they hold dear. They get angry because they feel like the values of Britain are being crushed and they feel like they are being forced to accept a culture.

What a lot of them seem to be annoyed about is that many immigrants that are muslims have made no attempts to adopt english culture and have instead attempted to live their own lives in Britain.

That's offensive to me as well.

That's my biggest criticism. Islam needs to do better to not only integrate but to respect the local culture.

Their hand was forced. It's like the BNP where it was only public pressure which guaranteed membership for non-Christians and minorities. The main body of the group is also still white, working-class Christian men.

Any change is positive though. It may assist the racist percentage to get over their fears.

 

[Assad91]

What a lot of them seem to be annoyed about is that many immigrants that are muslims have made no attempts to adopt english culture and have instead attempted to live their own lives in Britain.

That's offensive to me as well.

Hmp. Just like deem Mexicans. Commin here speakin spanish and celebrating Cinco de Mayo

 

[Assad91]

Or just like tnem Israelis speakin hebrew and celebrating hanuka. hmp

 

[darkendless]

Hmp. Just like deem Mexicans. Commin here speakin spanish and celebrating Cinco de Mayo

It is a problem.

 

[apophenia]

Hmp. Just like deem Mexicans. Commin here speakin spanish and celebrating Cinco de Mayo

Or the British coming here to Australia, pronouncing it Terra Nullius ("land belonging to no-one"), and declaring the local inhabitants to be 'native fauna' - which was not repealed until 1968 !

Did I mention the Stolen Generations, the infected blankets and marching whole tribes off cliffs ?

 

[Assad91]

It is a problem.

And that is xenophobia at its best

 

[Assad91]

Or the British coming here to Australia, pronouncing it Terra Nullius ("land belonging to no-one"), and declaring the local inhabitants to be 'native fauna' - which was not repealed until 1968 !

Did I mention the Stolen Generations, the infected blankets and marching whole tribes off cliffs ?

Ironic, no??

 

[darkendless]

And that is xenophobia at its best

That is not irrational fear of something strange.

It's fear of having sub-nations inside western cities because new "dwellers" in a nation keep to themselves which is a terrible way to run things. If anything it brings up more hatred and fear.

I am significantly reliant on "new" Australians for work. Why would I hate them or be fearful of them when it is they who allow me to live my chosen lifestyle?

 

[Assad91]

It's fear of having sub-nations inside western cities because new "dwellers" in a nation keep to themselves which is a terrible way to run things. If anything it brings up more hatred and fear.

Yeah, because Mexicans speaking spanish amongst themselves, and celebrating their heritage, is like having a sub-nation. That is not intolerance.

 

[darkendless]

Yeah, because Mexicans speaking spanish amongst themselves, and celebrating their heritage, is like having a sub-nation. That is not intolerance.

Perhaps you should become better at paraphrasing

What they do privately isn't the problem. What I was getting at is the 'mexicans' sealing themselves off from non-mexicans. They create 'ghetto's' inside large cities. Paris comes to mind. Stockholm has had recent problems with immigrant ghettos.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yeah, because Mexicans speaking spanish amongst themselves, and celebrating their heritage, is like having a sub-nation. That is not intolerance.

To be fair Assad, you're not one to lecture others on intolerance when you believe individuals who leave your religion publicly are liable for the death penalty.

At least darkendless isn't saying: "those who reject Australian culture and publicly criticize the country should be viable for capital punishment."

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Huuuuummmmm I'm in serious doubt. Maybe this is a wild guess but I don't think most Muslims come to BRITAIN because they WANT Sharia!?
They come because they want more opportunities and freedom which I'm guessing is the main reasons refugees come here in the first place.

I went to school with ALOT of Muslim girls they were just like everyone else! And they were all integrated as are most Muslims I meet in my line of work, and it's my job to talk to a lot of people.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

What I think needs to happen, is more social support services specifically for Muslim women and gay Muslims, as I knew a Muslim girl who's parents forced her to marry someone she didn't know or love, even though she was dating a Muslim boy for years whom she wanted to marry.

 

[HiddenHijabi]

Huuuuummmmm I'm in serious doubt. Maybe this is a wild guess but I don't think most Muslims come to BRITAIN because they WANT Sharia!?
They come because they want more opportunities and freedom which I'm guessing is the main reasons refugees come here in the first place.

I went to school with ALOT of Muslim girls they were just like everyone else! And they were all integrated as are most Muslims I meet in my line of work, and it's my job to talk to a lot of people.

I've lived in the UK all my life and sharia law (in terms of its use as a code of criminal law) wasn't even something that was mentioned even by Muslims until more recently. Even those companies and Islamic businesses which offer sharia banking/legal services/other services do so under the guidance of what is permissible in British law.

Plus it must be pointed out that sharia isn't just about capital/corporal punishment of crimes, but it for the most part is used to govern religious matters, such as how to pray, how the pilgrimage is performed, the building of mosques, how to deal with non-Muslims, Qur'anic interpretation, Islamic business practice etc. Most people who access sharia services in this country are likely seeking religious counsel, not trying someone for murder,

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I've lived in the UK all my life and sharia law (in terms of its use as a code of criminal law) wasn't even something that was mentioned even by Muslims until more recently. Even those companies and Islamic businesses which offer sharia banking/legal services/other services do so under the guidance of what is permissible in British law.

Plus it must be pointed out that sharia isn't just about capital/corporal punishment of crimes, but it for the most part is used to govern religious matters, such as how to pray, how the pilgrimage is performed, the building of mosques, how to deal with non-Muslims, Qur'anic interpretation, Islamic business practice etc. Most people who access sharia services in this country are likely seeking religious counsel, not trying someone for murder,

Thanks for this I don't know much about sharia. I only know about the hype that Muslims what sharia so they can cut people's hands off, and I know Muslims don't come to Britain because they want to be able to do that.