The EDL

[HiddenHijabi]

Thanks for this I don't know much about sharia. I only know about the hype that Muslims what sharia so they can cut people's hands off, and I know Muslims don't come to Britain because they want to be able to do that.

The word 'sharia' in many people's minds has become something of a bogeyman. The reality of it is that in the UK certainly, sharia is limited and is also optional. Those who wish to use traditional UK services such as lawyers or banking can do so of their own free will. Those who wish for shariah compliant services and products can access them. Most Muslims I know will use the UK banks, solicitors, police and accountants/financiers. It was only a few years ago that you could get Islamic banking outside of London, Birmingham or Bradford.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

The word 'sharia' in many people's minds has become something of a bogeyman. The reality of it is that in the UK certainly, sharia is limited and is also optional. Those who wish to use traditional UK services such as lawyers or banking can do so of their own free will. Those who wish for shariah compliant services and products can access them. Most Muslims I know will use the UK banks, solicitors, police and accountants/financiers. It was only a few years ago that you could get Islamic banking outside of London, Birmingham or Bradford.

Because as we know most Muslims in Britain are integrated and just as British as non Muslims. I am from London and know this.

 

[HiddenHijabi]

Because as we know most Muslims in Britain are integrated and just as British as non Muslims. I am from London and know this.

Most Muslims want to live in peace practicing their faith and couldn't give a toss for the implementation of a shariah-controlled Muslim state, regardless of how liberal/conservative they are. If people gave said Muslims a chance, the world would be a far better place.

 

[darkendless]

Most Muslims want to live in peace practicing their faith and couldn't give a toss for the implementation of a shariah-controlled Muslim state, regardless of how liberal/conservative they are. If people gave said Muslims a chance, the world would be a far better place.

They're not the idiots going on TV telling others how they should live their lives though.

 

[HiddenHijabi]

They're not the idiots going on TV telling others how they should live their lives though.

Said idiots are often self-appointed, self-titled and speak for no-one but a minority. Using them as an example of a general group is stupid. This goes for hate preachers, the EDL or any other group for that matter.

 

[darkendless]

Said idiots are often self-appointed, self-titled and speak for no-one but a minority. Using them as an example of a general group is stupid. This goes for hate preachers, the EDL or any other group for that matter.

Previously in the thread I suggested Muslims should make their presence felt a bit more to stop the haters only seeing the lunatics of Islam representing the religion.

If haters only see the negative, what other way are they meant to judge the rest of Islam if they do not see it? People with no idea about Islam should not be relied upon to self educate or to pro-actively seek education.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Previously in the thread I suggested Muslims should make their presence felt a bit more to stop the haters only seeing the lunatics of Islam representing the religion.

If haters only see the negative, what other way are they meant to judge the rest of Islam if they do not see it? People with no idea about Islam should not be relied upon to self educate or to pro-actively seek education.

speak for yourself! I hardly know anything about Islam and I'm not a hater and if I wanted to learn about Islam then it is my responsibility to help educate myself.
British people have always had issues with their views of immigrants, they also didn't like African Caribbean people, Rastas, Jews, Italians, French, south Asians including Hindus and Sikhs etc either
There are Orthodox Jews in London who like to keep themselves to themselves and prefer to only have other Jewish people for company and friendship and no one here is talking about how they should make more of an effort to integrate and be British so haters won't think they are stuck up and have sex with a hole in the sheet.
Educate yourself!

 

[HiddenHijabi]

Previously in the thread I suggested Muslims should make their presence felt a bit more to stop the haters only seeing the lunatics of Islam representing the religion.

If haters only see the negative, what other way are they meant to judge the rest of Islam if they do not see it? People with no idea about Islam should not be relied upon to self educate or to pro-actively seek education.

It's a two-way process though: there has been for the better part of a millenia massive anti-Muslim bias within the Western culture, in part motivated by the Church who denounced Islam as heretical and inferior and Muhammad (pbuh) as a liar, madman, fraud and warmonger. Many of the rumours of Muhammad (pbuh) as warlord, paedophile or a liar who used religion to gain power have their origins in the 11th century Crusades where such attitudes were common. There is still, despite a more liberal, open attitude towards religion in the West, still this Crusader attitude of Islam as 'the enemy'. Until this attitude of superiority is addressed, the actions of Muslims, even if the utmost was done to improve the image of Islam, would go ignored or at best, dismissed as being not good enough.

 

[darkendless]

speak for yourself! I hardly know anything about Islam and I'm not a hater and if I wanted to learn about Islam then it is my responsibility to help educate myself.
British people have always had issues with their views of immigrants, they also didn't like African Caribbean people, Rastas, Jews, Italians, French, south Asians including Hindus and Sikhs etc either
There are Orthodox Jews in London who like to keep themselves to themselves and prefer to only have other Jewish people for company and friendship and no one here is talking about how they should make more of an effort to integrate and be British so haters won't think they are stuck up and have sex with a hole in the sheet.
Educate yourself!

Get the sand out of your panties precious

When did I say all uneducated people on Islam hated it? Look at some of the EDL; they know nothing about it but hate on it anyway without knowing what they're hating. Thats the prominent issue of this thread.

The obvious reason that Islam is a problem and they are being suggested to integrate more is that they are more prominent in the public view. Especially given recent events in Woolwich.

Everyone should integrate to a degree. Integrate in that they do not create 'ghetto's' within a particular city. That doesn't mean they should completely give up their culture.

Educate myself? Darling please, if you're going to boast perhaps you should make sure you know what you're talking about?

 

[darkendless]

It's a two-way process though: there has been for the better part of a millenia massive anti-Muslim bias within the Western culture, in part motivated by the Church who denounced Islam as heretical and inferior and Muhammad (pbuh) as a liar, madman, fraud and warmonger. Many of the rumours of Muhammad (pbuh) as warlord, paedophile or a liar who used religion to gain power have their origins in the 11th century Crusades where such attitudes were common. There is still, despite a more liberal, open attitude towards religion in the West, still this Crusader attitude of Islam as 'the enemy'. Until this attitude of superiority is addressed, the actions of Muslims, even if the utmost was done to improve the image of Islam, would go ignored or at best, dismissed as being not good enough.

Likewise I think the attitude is reciprocal. At least where i'm from a lot of people get annoyed because they feel like many muslims want to live here yet live the same way they lived in their former country of residence.

I think both 'cultures' have a sense of superiority which stems as you say from the crusades. I'd never really considered it but I agree with what you say.

 

[Assad91]

Everyone should integrate to a degree. Integrate in that they do not create 'ghetto's' within a particular city..

A great example of 'white privilege' right there.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Get the sand out of your panties precious

When did I say all uneducated people on Islam hated it? Look at some of the EDL; they know nothing about it but hate on it anyway without knowing what they're hating. Thats the prominent issue of this thread.

The obvious reason that Islam is a problem and they are being suggested to integrate more is that they are more prominent in the public view. Especially given recent events in Woolwich.

Everyone should integrate to a degree. Integrate in that they do not create 'ghetto's' within a particular city. That doesn't mean they should completely give up their culture.

Educate myself? Darling please, if you're going to boast perhaps you should make sure you know what you're talking about?

First of all let me just say that when I said educate yourself I meant people in general have a responsibility to educate themselves not you personally.

How do Muslims create Ghettos???

And like I said before as someone who is British, most Muslims are integrated heck maybe even more so then Orthodox Jews in terms of actually being friends with non Muslims.
(Not that I'm personally saying Orthodox Jews should be more integrated)

 

[Assad91]

To simplify something that is so complex as are the socio-economic disadvantages of minorities by saying 'dont make ghettos', is a horrible show of white privilege. Maybe one should rethink such through

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

...........BUT.....
Just don't make ghettos

 

[apophenia]

It's a two-way process though: there has been for the better part of a millenia massive anti-Muslim bias within the Western culture, in part motivated by the Church who denounced Islam as heretical and inferior and Muhammad (pbuh) as a liar, madman, fraud and warmonger.

To be fair, it is implicit in the teaching of Mohammed that Christianity is a fraud, isn't it ? That the claim of Jesus as being more than a mere messenger or prophet is a lie and a heresy ? That is necessarily a dismissal of the fundamental validity of christianity.

This is, as you say, a two-way process.

I am reasonably tolerant so I can see the merits and failures of both views

 

[darkendless]

First of all let me just say that when I said educate yourself I meant people in general have a responsibility to educate themselves not you personally.

How do Muslims create Ghettos???

And like I said before as someone who is British, most Muslims are integrated heck maybe even more so then Orthodox Jews in terms of actually being friends with non Muslims.
(Not that I'm personally saying Orthodox Jews should be more integrated)

Never been to Sainsburys near Holborn underground station then I see

Studies have found that when they live in large numbers or as a 'community' they assimilate a lot slower. U.K.: Asian Muslim Ghettos Keep Growing, Hindering Integration

I did some work in the black country on the A45 between Birmingham and Coventry as a contractor. There are certain spots where you just simply don't go.

London was to a lesser degree. Most born and bred Brits tended to live outside the inner city. Too many of us damn tourists everywhere

 

[darkendless]

A great example of 'white privilege' right there.

I am white am I? How would you know? You can take your patronising attitude elsewhere

 

[mycorrhiza]

Everyone should integrate to a degree. Integrate in that they do not create 'ghetto's' within a particular city. That doesn't mean they should completely give up their culture.

Do you really believe that immigrants like to live in poor segregated areas? Many people who flee from poor countries are, no surprise, poor and thus can't afford to live in the areas with the best schools or the best houses.

The segregation is the result of rich white men and women with no connection to the real world ruling our countries. The housing policies are along the lines of "let them eat cake". Can't everyone afford to pay $400,000 for a flat? The kids in the poor areas have nowhere to go, because there is no money allocated to improving these areas with actual activities. Racism on the job market results in many immigrants being out of work. Doctors generally don't want to drive cabs and engineers generally don't want to make pizza.

The hatred towards immigrants is not the immigrants' fault, but is rather the work of fear and racism combined with sensationalist media and really lousy education. People here don't get taught much at all about what anyone but Christians believe in, so what do we expect?

 

[darkendless]

Do you really believe that immigrants like to live in poor segregated areas? Many people who flee from poor countries are, no surprise, poor and thus can't afford to live in the areas with the best schools or the best houses.

The segregation is the result of rich white men and women with no connection to the real world ruling our countries. The housing policies are along the lines of "let them eat cake". Can't everyone afford to pay $400,000 for a flat? The kids in the poor areas have nowhere to go, because there is no money allocated to improving these areas with actual activities. Racism on the job market results in many immigrants being out of work. Doctors generally don't want to drive cabs and engineers generally don't want to make pizza.

The hatred towards immigrants is not the immigrants' fault, but is rather the work of fear and racism combined with sensationalist media and really lousy education. People here don't get taught much at all about what anyone but Christians believe in, so what do we expect?

You could have made all of your points without using the word racism.

My only "racism" (since you love the word) towards immigrants is that when I have to call them I can't understand a word they're saying usually. Praise the lord for emails.

But I can assure you that Australia loves it's immigrant engineers and council supervisors. Dealing with them regularly the language barrier is problematic. I find it hilarious that you think engineers have to make pizza. Seriously, there are more non-anglos who are engineers than anglos in this country. There is absolutely no problem with that at all, we have a high demand. Like I said though, language barriers make life difficult.

 

[Assad91]

I am white am I? How would you know? You can take your patronising attitude elsewhere

Well I doubt a minority here, like a black man would tell other blacks and minorities to "not make ghettos" lol. Like they choose to be poor.

And your rant on language barriers is more evident. I doubt an Indian man chooses to have an accent. Oh wait, maybe we don't tell them immigrants to "not have an accent" enough, right?