The "F word" for those who hate the word "feminist"

[MD]

I think Feminism is a beautiful concept, just like Marxism is a beautiful concept. But I don't think equality is possible at all for human beings, at least at our current state right now. There are always competing religions, nation states, ideas. In families there are power structures, in relationships there are power dynamics. Sometimes when ideas get big enough and compete, it gets ugly and wars begin, millions die. Everything about nature is about power and dominance.

Not saying that women can't hold positions of power, I often wonder how a female dominated world would look like and it might be a welcome change. War is very dirty and is a male concept I think. In such a world competition would still be there, but violence would be less. A few millennia ago most societies were matriarchal and relatively peaceful.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Oh really..... you know your way about this site. Plx dig up a Purple Femmie thread that has addressed this issue in depth.

If we are talking about FGM, I have started threads in the past that are dated well before the establishment of the Feminist Only section that dealt specifically with the topic. What is culturally and/or religiously supported edicts and the various forms of genital mutilation, from cliterodectomies, to removing just the clitoral hood, to removing the entire external clitoral anatomy and including the inner labia to be sewn almost completely shut only to allow a small stream of menstrual blood to pass through.

I'm unsure if you're trying to make a point about how frivolous feminist topics of discussion are about, but I assure you that a quick search through the purple forum will show quite a few topics that are pressing. In regards to reproductive rights, violence against women, sexual assault, etc.

It's a place that does offer feminists the opportunity to discuss such things along with other gender theory specifics. Representation, patrilineal customs of naming next of kin, wage gap, ****-shaming, and so on along with the more violent manifestations of sexism in institutionalized settings.

Shortly after the Elliot Roger shooting, any discussion that brought up the word "misogyny" about the massacre was met with a "Oh, COME ON, don't start THAT again" response and then talking about why feminism is so whiny and hateful. Even though in his many writings, he discussed what exactly he wanted to do to women and ONLY to women, because they are women who are inherently and biologically inferior and deserved to die out starving to death, but only to allow a few select to survive for breeding purposes.

So, some of us, said, "Hey, look. That's misogynistic."

And then suddenly it's met with, "Give me a ****ing break. Why do you have to see misogyny and patriarchy in everything? My god, just shut the **** up."

Or something of that nature.

But the thing is, if THAT isn't misogynistic, what IS, then? And is it honestly man-hating to point out that such writing is hateful of women? Writings that wished most of all women were dead? That women didn't exist in society?

Usually, the response is "Oh, that's just crazy talk. Nobody actually thinks that. Just drop the ideology."

.

.

.

So, these are issues that impact women on a daily basis. Catcalling, street harassment, rape threats, partner rape, domestic violence. Feminists bring them up time and time again, usually met with disdain from critics of feminism, saying that we're not taking responsibility for our actions.

And somebody brings up video games a few times, and critics have the audacity to say we should talk about the more serious issues? We bring them up constantly.

 

[freethinker44]

And please tell us what is ridiculous about it?

I think I've covered it pretty well in other threads. Patriarchy, privilege, rape culture, gendered violence, misogyny, misandry, sexism, etc..., I'm not going to go into too much detail because I've talked at length about many of these subjects in other threads. I think the feminist ideology concerning these topics and more tends to be very dogmatic, exaggerated, and sometimes patently false.

Even this conversation is just another part of feminist dogma. Just like a religion you are trying to get me to believe it's just some simple philosophy that no good person would disagree with. Like Islam is just about peace and Christianity is just about treating people like you want to be treated, feminism is just about equality. Riiight :sarcastic.

 

[freethinker44]

I think Feminism is a beautiful concept, just like Marxism is a beautiful concept. But I don't think equality is possible at all for human beings, at least at our current state right now. There are always competing religions, nation states, ideas. In families there are power structures, in relationships there are power dynamics. Sometimes when ideas get big enough and compete, it gets ugly and wars begin, millions die. Everything about nature is about power and dominance.

Not saying that women can't hold positions of power, I often wonder how a female dominated world would look like and it might be a welcome change. War is very dirty and is a male concept I think. In such a world competition would still be there, but violence would be less. A few millennia ago most societies were matriarchal and relatively peaceful.

It is so sexist to say that war is a male concept. As if women don't have the capacity for violence.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To express your loathing with language comparable to (or worse than) her offense
sort'a defeats your purpose. Should she be hated cuz she's old or short on vaginal fluids?
Some day, when you're "old" (if you're lucky), you won't see that as an insulting trait.

Anyway, she's a professional insult comic (like Don Rickles). Best leave that to the pros.

No, she should be disliked because she's a ***** who makes bigoted remakes and feels that she should get a pass. She's just an entitled old rich white/Jewish woman who thinks she should say anything she wants without any criticism, as if we're too uptight and should laugh about it.

Also, I've lived in the inner city my entire life. From that, I've learned that you get what you give. You say something nasty about me or my people and I say something nasty about you. You don't like it? Well, don't be a bigoted *** in the first place. Go whine to someone who cares and ignores your hypocrisy.

As an aside, I notice Joan Rivers gets a hell of a lot more flack than Don Rickles. For her appearance mostly.

It's her body.

I'm not familiar with Don Rickles. Does he say insulting things about minorities?

No, it's not her body. It's her being a rude *****.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, she should be disliked because she's a ***** who makes bigoted remakes and feels that she should get a pass. She's just an entitled old rich white/Jewish woman who thinks she should say anything she wants without any criticism, as if we're too uptight and should laugh about it.
Also, I've lived in the inner city my entire life. From that, I've learned that you get what you give. You say something nasty about me or my people and I say something nasty about you. You don't like it? Well, don't be a bigoted *** in the first place. Go whine to someone who cares and ignores your hypocrisy.

Do you hate her because of what she said or because she's a rich white Jew?
Or does the latter just make the former worse?

I'm not familiar with Don Rickles. Does he say insulting things about minorities?
No, it's not her body. It's her being a rude *****.

Is insulting minorities what's fundamentally wrong here?

But I think she's in hot water for insulting a powerful black political figure & his wife.
Joan has said many similarly insulting things about celebrities before, & nary a word
of protest was uttered.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you hate her because of what she said or because she's a rich white Jew?
Or does the latter just make the former worse?

I never liked her because she's a snob who feels entitled due to her privilege. What she's been saying lately just makes her worse.

Is insulting minorities what's wrong?

There's a saying in comedy - you don't punch down, you punch up. Saying rude things about a misunderstood small minority just shows that you're mean-spirited, ignorant and a bigot.

Anyway, I'm sick of talking about Joan Rivers. I'm a bit ticked that people just ignored pretty much my entire post and its point and, instead, chose to get uppity because I said something mean about a celebrity who will never know or care about what people like us on a message board say. This is problematic, to say the least. It says to me that poor, non-white and queer people like me should always be polite to those who don't give a damn about us and contribute to our oppression and ignorance of us. This isn't the first time I've noticed this from some white cis people.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's a saying in comedy - you don't punch down, you punch up. Saying rude things about a misunderstood small minority just shows that you're mean-spirited, ignorant and a bigot.

Punch down? Obama is arguably the most powerful man in the world. His wife can order schools around about what food they serve. They both profess to belong to the most populous & powerful religion in the world. He's just some poor misunderstood minority? Nah....he can't play the victimhood card.

Anyway, I'm sick of talking about Joan Rivers. I'm a bit ticked that people just ignored pretty much my entire post and its point and, instead, chose to get uppity because I said something mean about a celebrity who will never know or care about what people like us on a message board say. This is problematic, to say the least. It says to me that poor, non-white and queer people like me should always be polite to those who don't give a damn about us and contribute to our oppression and ignorance of us. This isn't the first time I've noticed this from some white cis people.

We're a pretty uppity bunch here.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Punch down? Obama is arguably the most powerful man in the world. His wife can order schools around about what food they serve. They both profess to belong to the most populous & powerful religion in the world. He's just some poor misunderstood minority? Nah....he can't play the victimhood card.

I'm not talking about Obama, although what she said about him and Michelle was uncalled for and bigoted, just as Ted Nugent calling him a "mongrel" is racist.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not talking about Obama, although what she said about him and Michelle was uncalled for and bigoted, just as Ted Nugent calling him a "mongrel" is racist.

Notice that you employ the very same kind of barbs which Rivers uses.
Is it really so bad then?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Notice that you employ the very same kind of barbs which Rivers uses.
Is it really so bad then?

I don't know what you're talking about, and I'm sick of talking about her anyway. Bye.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

But I think she's in hot water for insulting a powerful black political figure & his wife.
Joan has said many similarly insulting things about celebrities before, & nary a word
of protest was uttered.

This is, it wasn't even funny, it was nonsensical. Trannie should not be used as an insult, there is nothing insulting about being transgendered.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is, it wasn't even funny, it was nonsensical. Trannie should not be used as an insult, there is nothing insulting about being transgendered.

You'd have to take that up with Rivers.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

You'd have to take that up with Rivers.

So you don't think the prejudice and discrimination that transmen go through is a men's issue?

 

[Revoltingest]

So you don't think the prejudice and discrimination that transmen go through is a men's issue?

You inferred that from my post?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

You inferred that from my post?

It's obvious you don't want to talk about it. So is it a men's issue or not?

 

[freethinker44]

So you don't think the prejudice and discrimination that transmen go through is a men's issue?

Why does there need to be a division of the sexes, why can't we just say it is a human issue?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Why does there need to be a division of the sexes, why can't we just say it is a human issue?

Because it is also gender issue, it involves gender. So is the discrimination that transmen endure a men's issue or not? It is a rather simple question.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Why does there need to be a division of the sexes, why can't we just say it is a human issue?

And since it should be considered a human issue, maybe I should say the same thing about that Men's Issues subforum. Why can't we just rename it Human Issues?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's obvious you don't want to talk about it. So is it a men's issue or not?

I don't think our discussing it would be productive.