The fall of man; Free will

[it's_sam]

I apologize if I offended you, I dont know you, this is true, but I also assumed your christian, and the teachings of christian is from a little black book is all I meant

No worries we all have our days in the sun

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

How did you come to your belief then?

*merely out of curiosity.*

 

[it's_sam]

I have found the only purpose necessary is to find a higher purpose other then yourself. If you keep other needs before that of yours, you will find peace in your whole state of being and usualy a new purpose as well. I see failure as a point when someone is learning, after this is done the person themselves is better and this can grow repeating that cycle. I also think this growth REQUIRES the people around them to stay in their lines safety and sanity. Our mind can attack in bad ways sometimes. If you grow by yourself you will die the same way. Ofcourse this includes every religion and person seeking faith, because this to me means they have started clearing their path, and that is good.

 

[budha3]

God only gives us free will while we are here on earth. In heaven God rules. The reason why he rules in heaven is because HIs/her presence is so compelling that you have no choice but to respect His/her rule
Entrapment occurred on earth just like it does now. Have you ever gone from one room to another to get something, but you get so caught up in walking that you forget what you were going to get in the first place. Original sin is a forgetting. We got so caught up in the physical that we began to believe that we were physical beings. We began to believe that we were different races, and we forgot or original connection to God; are we not His/Her children?

 

[waitasec]

I'm not understanding why you think God is sexist or prejudice. The bible was written by men under the inspiration of God. They can make mistakes, because humans do. God doesn't. The bible is still here today because overall what it says is what He wanted to say.

But sexist, I don't get where you come to that idea. In the book of Judges, chapter 4 is a story about Deborah. She was a judge, thus men and women went to her for guidance. Her general would not go to war without her presence. She was revered.

The story of Ruth, a story about loyalty and morality in which the women persevere.

Also, the women mentioned in the New Testament. Lazarus' sisters Mary and Martha, Mary, Mary Magdalene - these were prominent figures, not just women.

I will, however, humor your sexism remark. In the old testament, when something bad happened in which a woman was involved, it was generally her fault. Eve - of course we know that story. Sarah - she laughed when she heard she would bear children at her age & didn't trust in God to fulfill the promise and just "forced" her maid onto Abraham to produce Ishmael.... and when Sodom was destroyed, Lot was "seduced" by his daughters & his wife was turned into a pillar of salt for disobeying.

My point to this is, God gave His message to men, and men are fallible. Some of these messages may have lost a little bit of their way during the process - I don't know, I wasn't there, and God does not tell me everything. What I do know, regardless of how the message came to us, if you read the actual story - leaving out your/my own prejudice - it is a meaningful message.

For Eve, the message I read is Trust in God, when in doubt of others- pray!
For Sarah, the message I read is Have Faith in God, when I try to fix stuff it's like saying I can do better than God.
For Lot's wife, the message I read is Do Not Love the Things of This World above God, and be submissive to your husband if he's living his life for God - (being submissive does not mean placed in a corner and not speaking until spoken to, etc, etc. - for me it means trust in the one God gave you.)
For Lot's sisters, the message - well, I really get no message from that, it's just gross!!!!

I can go on, but I don't see where you can make an argument that God is sexist.

i don't believe the god in your bible exists that is why a sxist image of a god is found in book written by sexist men...for all the reason you said and for Gen 3:16...women are to be ruled my men...even in rape women rights were not considered... the difference between a rapist's death penalty and owing the girls father 50 pieces of silver is if she BELONGED to another man...your god is sexist...like it or not

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

I believe that we are. You can be a follower, but I dunno, I just dont like the statement "God is our father."

 

[it's_sam]

:clap

God only gives us free will while we are here on earth. In heaven God rules. The reason why he rules in heaven is because HIs/her presence is so compelling that you have no choice but to respect His/her rule
Entrapment occurred on earth just like it does now. Have you ever gone from one room to another to get something, but you get so caught up in walking that you forget what you were going to get in the first place. Original sin is a forgetting. We got so caught up in the physical that we began to believe that we were physical beings. We began to believe that we were different races, and we forgot or original connection to God; are we not His/Her children?

:clap

 

[waitasec]

How do you know God isnt standing with the "finsihed you" in heaven right now working to show you the next step to help you reach that potentiel? Lets say regardless of what they did to show you, you insisted on not listening and would hit anyone who disagreed? We are saying the same fate awaits you in death. It would be to learn your mistake but it would still be commin, its just a warning. Choose right and do not fear, if your mind is for others more then yourself their mind is what will be waiting for you to offer gifts of thanks, and friendship. You didnt disarm this thinking, you just still havnt made your connection of known to unknown. Wich unfortunately takes ALOT of time for all of us. I consider myself lucky knowing what i know at the age of 30, but the amount I have gone through in this life is more then some see in 60 years. Perhaps i should of stayed at home rather then "go out into the world" but it happened, and now it has turned out to be a gift of knowledge.

ok, what? were is the freedom of will if destiny is calling?
freedom of will is the opposite of gods will...the image of the god in your bible doesn't want me to have freedom of will because it takes away the power of the idea of the god in your bible....fear will control the masses by the powerful few

if i had an ant farm and i controlled the ant community, unbeknownst to them they are living in their world, so they think, but at any moment their lives could be over or changed forever without them ever knowing why all of a sudden these rollypollys are invading their space...is their destiny within my powers? YES does your god have control over the choices i make in life NO ...i don't even believe in such a thing as destiny

maybe people are afraid to die because they are afraid to not have accomplished what they wanted in life...
anyone can go at any moment, for me i don't want to have regrets when the lights go out, isn't that all we have? how we feel about ourselves? are we happy with ourselves? i know i'm not happy when i've wronged someone else and i'm sure you are the same way...everyone is like that, except of course if one is a sociopath

 

[heaven_sent]

hello im new here so im just getting the hang of this. My truth is that punishment is a primitive way to educate. It is not the way of love and it is certainly not he way of God. (im not saying u dont love ur kids in fact if u say u hate punishing its cos u do love ur kids). THere are far better ways to educate our children and as we evolve and become closer to God then these ways wil cometo the fore

 

[waitasec]

Why dont you take the rules of the bible literally?
The bible is the bible, it says what it means, if you change them they become redundant. It doesnt matter what YOU make of them your twisiting them, they are no longer true.

Makes the bible void, because you might as well make your own rules.

YES!!
there are passages in the bible that claim to be the eternal word of god
so much for that

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

YES!!
there are passages in the bible that claim to be the eternal word of god
so much for that

I know.
I'm so miffed when people are like THATS NOT WHAT IT MEANS.
When it says stuff like that.

 

[TEXASBULL]

I know.
I'm so miffed when people are like THATS NOT WHAT IT MEANS.
When it says stuff like that.

I find people spend a lot of time making excuses for God and the Bible when they read something that they don't like.

Murder, rape, slavery, divorce, etc.

 

[waitasec]

Look at the times man things were WAY different back then. Some women were revered but most held affirm to the man being alpha. Christianity was fighting this AT THE TIME. It was dilluded because it wasnt set yet, the leaders enforced it, and the law protected it.

are you saying we are worse off now than then?

who ordained rape and genocide ...who told moses to murder all the little boys/men and women but keep the virgin girls alive for raping
read NUMBERS 31...

"but the Midianites were evil", of course they were evil, they were the enemy of the god in your bible...even though they were his creation and can you really find justification for these acts even for then?

i know you don't think we are worse off now...but thanks to who?
US and the evolution of our morality

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

I find people spend a lot of time making excuses for God and the Bible when they read something that they don't like.

Murder, rape, slavery, divorce, etc.

Its just a book of horror and contridiction. =/ That is how I feel.

 

[waitasec]

I know.
I'm so miffed when people are like THATS NOT WHAT IT MEANS.
When it says stuff like that.

I find people spend a lot of time making excuses for God and the Bible when they read something that they don't like.

Murder, rape, slavery, divorce, etc.

it's hard to hear these things because their faith is being tested and they are afraid to go there...you know what i mean? (that's how it was for me)
it is a very personal thing...but we are on a forum to debate these things

my mom is VERY much into the bible and says things that really make me upset we fight but, hey she's 74 set in her ways,
the bible should be used as a devotional tool rather than a logical argument explaining god existence...

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

it's hard to hear these things because their faith is being tested and they are afraid to go there...you know what i mean? (that's how it was for me)
it is a very personal thing...but we are on a forum to debate these things

my mom is VERY much into the bible and says things that really make me upset we fight but, hey she's 74 set in her ways,
the bible should be used as a devotional tool rather than a logical argument explaining god existence...

My mom is the same way, except she is 43 and she is kicking me out for being me.

Religon has brought me nothing good, and i cant bring myself to believe in it. Its just as bad as saying greek mythology is real.

 

[waitasec]

My mom is the same way, except she is 43 and she is kicking me out for being me.

Religon has brought me nothing good, and i cant bring myself to believe in it. Its just as bad as saying greek mythology is real.

i'm sorry it's that way for you.
if you can relate to her on another level w/out this BS try to hold on to that
if you can

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

Cant.
she went far enough to say
"If gods not real than what would i live for?"
She's way past relating to me on anything else.

 

[waitasec]

Cant.
she went far enough to say
"If gods not real than what would i live for?"
She's way past relating to me on anything else.

i don't know what to say except to lean on your close friends, they are there for you

 

[jml03]

Why dont you take the rules of the bible literally?
The bible is the bible, it says what it means, if you change them they become redundant. It doesnt matter what YOU make of them your twisiting them, they are no longer true.

Makes the bible void, because you might as well make your own rules.

I don't worship the bible, I worship God. God opened a doorway for a personal relationship with Him, whereby we do not have to seek a written word for confirmation in our actions. I love the bible, but He left it open to a world of meanings and interpretations. Rather than trust in the written word only, I choose to seek Him for guidance in my daily life. My spiritual walk is much better for it. It is easy for you to make assumptions as to how I should live my life, but when I consider that it is not coming from someone who even believes one iota in God, then it makes your opinion void to me.