The fear of Atheism

[crystalonyx]

I know many CHristians (and people of other faiths) that equate athesim with immorality, socialism, terrorism, you name it. We're not dealing with open-minded people here.

 

[ravenstrike]

Well, let's not sterotype, or overgeneralize here.

 

[Captain Civic]

Well, let's not sterotype, or overgeneralize here.

What? I thought that's what all atheists do.:cover:

 

[turk179]

What? I thought that's what all atheists do.:cover:

Nope, not all. Just the one's that get their undies in a bunch over trivialities.

 

[Captain Civic]

Nope, not all. Just the one's that get their undies in a bunch over trivialities.

Heh heh. I was being smart. I overgeneralised.

 

[A Lurking Shadow]

I know many CHristians (and people of other faiths) that equate athesim with immorality, socialism, terrorism, you name it. We're not dealing with open-minded people here.

Funny how you threw "socialism" in the list of negatives there. The countries with the best standards of living in the world are left wing (albiet, ever so slightly).

 

[ravenstrike]

Heh heh. I was being smart. I overgeneralised.

I GET IT!!

 

[Smoke]

Funny how you threw "socialism" in the list of negatives there. The countries with the best standards of living in the world are left wing (albiet, ever so slightly).

Socialism in moderation is a very good thing. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be equated with atheism.

 

[crystalonyx]

Funny how you threw "socialism" in the list of negatives there. The countries with the best standards of living in the world are left wing (albiet, ever so slightly).

I agree, except the context in which they use the word "socialism" is a very negative one.

 

[Magic Man]

I agree, except the context in which they use the word "socialism" is a very negative one.

How so? And how does that make the difference?

 

[crystalonyx]

How so? And how does that make the difference?

Ever listen to Rush?

 

[Magic Man]

Ever listen to Rush?

a little. Please elaborate.

 

[s2a]

Hiya mball,

You said:

As you said, not within your estimations. Are you now the absolute authority on everything?

Hardly...but that is not a claim I have put forth for you to question, nor argue against. Is that your finest constructed scarecrow to place in the field?

If so, please tell me what I should do with my life, since you know all of the answers for sure.

Since you asked...I counsel that you either take a healthy sh!t, or get off the pot. No one likes the constipated guy that hogs the bathroom for hours on end. Agnostics are the unhappy fence-sitters of our days (and who wouldn't be, with those uncomfortable edges of noncommittal fence posts immediately pressing upon our most precious reproductive jewels); whom may profess grandiose self-awareness and derivative wisdoms that in fact, offer neither insights or nor revelations upon the human condition of any sort or measure at all...

Prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no God.

Why? What is the reasoned aspect of your doubt?

I don't deal in "shadows"; I consider all available facts within the crucibles of reason and skepticism. I need not "prove" that the Easter Bunny does not exist...simply because some advocate claims (or insists) "He" does. The BURDEN of PROOF is incumbent upon the claimant themselves...not upon the skeptic.

I (personally) do not claim that "gods" do not exist.

I only reasonably conclude that such claims are insubstantial bunk.

You can't, no matter what you think. Many people "know" that God exists. Somebody has to be wrong.

Indeed.

There is the possibility that it's you.

I give odds that the Easter Bunny does not--in fact--"exist"...as claimed. What sort of "Pascal's Wager" shall we now indulge as satisfactory resolution of this dilemma?

Up until a few years ago you, along with everyone else, "knew" that Pluto was a planet. Guess what? It's not.

Poor analogy on your part to thereupon premise such a comparison.

Pluto "exists" (as a cosmological body), but it's "classification" as a "planet" is merely a matter of scientific explanations and semantics; not of any/all other relevant facts.

Perhaps if we could measure or observe a (any) claimed "god" (like Pluto), we could [then] debate whether or not that "entity" conforms--within a consensus opinion--of whatever constitutes a "real" god; versus "something" that is "god-like".

Reasonable people will allow for the possibility of error.

Sure. I'll allow for the possibility that you are wrong.

I firmly believe that I'm right bout the question of God.

Which is what...exactly?

I can also admit that it's possible that I'm wrong.

Good.

The difference is that I don't feel the need to worry about the small possibility of his existence. Just like the Easter Bunny or whatever else, it's not worth considering.

Perhaps you're right. Some things aren't worth thinking about. After all, why bother?

In normal everday life, I think it's better to just dismiss the possibility of God, because it's not worth considering, if you're an atheist. On the other hand, when having a debate about the question, I can then say that I don't have absolute proof of God's nonexistence, otherwise no one would believe in Him. Therefore, my idea is a belief.

I accept your faith-based conclusion as such.

So, no, that sentiment is not sufficiently considered.

I appreciate your forthright candor in reply.

So, when you get an attitude with someone over something that wasn't even offensive in the first place, and in fact was absolutely right, I'll call you on it.

Good.

Welcome to the debate.

You can debate politely. I know it's a hard concept for someone who "knows" that they're always right, but try it sometime.

I have.

Again...welcome.

 

[kdrier]

So, what happens if something does not confirm your faith, but is, rather, opposing it?

Most christians, and anyone who believes strongly in anything for that matter, are probably not open minded to anything of the sort.

You blame it for all of the world's problems, and if that wasn't enough, you demonize it

Yea, I hate people that point fingers in directions because of this. I hate people that blame religion, or lack of religion, on something just for the sake of it.

But you will not accept that. Why? Because you are afraid. You are afraid of the idea of there being no God, of atheism, because your Bible tells you it's true, and your Pastor tells you it's true, and your "heart" tells you it's true.

I'm not sure if I can coin it to being afraid. Are most christians afraid that god might not exist? I don't think so. They call it faith for a reason, they have faith that god exists, just like you have faith that a god does not exist. Do you know for sure? Are you afraid that there is a god? I doubt it, but the door swings both ways. No one knows for sure what is going on. People like to believe in god, they like to go to church. Being christian is as much as a culture and a lifestyle as it is a belief system.

Overall I agree with you on some level. I do believe that there is many religious extremists, some of which I know, who will not even attempt to understand any beliefs or position other than their own. These same people often preach their propoganda on others, and often judge those around them. Most are extremely stubborn, and extremely sensitive to the subject. I mostly blame it on immaturity, or lack of life experience. Although... I also believe these people only make up a small porition of followers, of which probably won't be on these forums. Only recently have I been talking to christians that have suprised me, my pops being one of them.

Am I afraid of atheism? Not at all. Most intelligent people don't just believe in something for the sake of it, most people have arrived at their beliefs, of which could be everchanging. I was born and raised christian, turned into a atheist (just lost my faith, at the time I didn't consider myself as such), then Agnostic, and now just custom. I've never been religious, or even cared enough to say I was any certain religion if anyone asked.

I think atheists are generally too technical. They are very factual, and usually don't have much of an imagination for certain things. They rely completely on "facts" or lack of facts. Based on what I know about atheism, and what my atheist friends have told me, Atheism is an easy way out. Out of what? out of thinking about anything that isn't in their face, in their hands. Most of the atheist friends I have are not very deep thinkers as far as spirituality and religion goes, and all the parameters involved with them.

My atheist friends think all christians believe in the same "god", then same dude who lives up in the clouds, wears a white robe, and has a list of who is naughty and nice. I don't think atheists realize how many ways the bible can be interpreted, from a range of people with different mentalities and intelligences.

I believe in "god". I believe there is something greater than us, something beyond this physical reality we live in, of which human intelligence could never possibly comprehend. It's all around us, in the water we drink, to the dirt we walk on. I have a feeling when I die either nothing at all will happen at all, or it will be like waking up from an elaborate dream, and everything will make perfect sense. I believe the bible is a metaphor, a guide to living life. If you follow it your life will be "heaven", if you rape, murder, and steal, there is a good chance your life will be a living "hell". I believe in the concept of religion, and never preach my concepts onto others, I want people to believe in the bible. All I can do is live my life one day at a time attempting to make myself and all those around me as happy as possible.

What do you and other atheists believe in my friend?

 

[crystalonyx]

"Most of the atheist friends I have are not very deep thinkers, don't really seriously think about spirituality and religion, and all the parameters involved with them.

My atheist friends think all christians believe in the same "god", then same dude who lives up in the clouds, wears a white robe, and has a list of who is naughty and nice. I don't think atheists realize how many ways the bible can be interpreted, from a range of people with different mentalities and intelligences.
"

That's funny, I would tend to put theists more in this category than atheists. All the atheists I know are very open-minded, and generally know quite a bit about religion.

 

[Magic Man]

s2a: Basically, the point is that, in life, you have to take some things for granted. You can prove to yourself that you exist because you think, but I can't really prove to you that I think and therefore exist. For all you know, I could be a figment of your imagination. We assume that the sun will rise tomorrow because we've seen it do that for our entire lives. We have good reason to believe that will happen, but in the end, we don't know anything for sure. It's possible that the sun will not rise tomorrow for some unknown reason.

We decide to live our lives on the assumption that there is some sort of objective reality because it makes life easier. That assumption is based on faith, and so our views begin with faith-based claims, and anything built on those primary faith-based claims ends up also being based on faith itself.

 

[kdrier]

That's funny, I would tend to put theists more in this category than atheists. All the atheists I know are very open-minded, and generally know quite a bit about religion.

I know, the people I know who are atheist are deep thinkers, but not as far as religion goes. They read it, and know all the facts about it, but they don't really understand all the parameters involved with it. It's hard to explain

 

[Escéptico]

We decide to live our lives on the assumption that there is some sort of objective reality because it makes life easier. That assumption is based on faith, and so our views begin with faith-based claims, and anything built on those primary faith-based claims ends up also being based on faith itself.

No, the assumption that there is objective reality is based on the apparent universality of human experience of some sort of reality, and the consistency of models formulated to make predictions concerning this so-called reality.

Why is 'reality exists' a faith-based claim? Is there any reason to believe it doesn't exist?

 

[Magic Man]

Most christians, and anyone who believes strongly in anything for that matter, are probably not open minded to anything of the sort.



Yea, I hate people that point fingers in directions because of this. I hate people that blame religion, or lack of religion, on something just for the sake of it.



I'm not sure if I can coin it to being afraid. Are most christians afraid that god might not exist? I don't think so. They call it faith for a reason, they have faith that god exists, just like you have faith that a god does not exist. Do you know for sure? Are you afraid that there is a god? I doubt it, but the door swings both ways. No one knows for sure what is going on. People like to believe in god, they like to go to church. Being christian is as much as a culture and a lifestyle as it is a belief system.

Overall I agree with you on some level. I do believe that there is many religious extremists, some of which I know, who will not even attempt to understand any beliefs or position other than their own. These same people often preach their propoganda on others, and often judge those around them. Most are extremely stubborn, and extremely sensitive to the subject. I mostly blame it on immaturity, or lack of life experience. Although... I also believe these people only make up a small porition of followers, of which probably won't be on these forums. Only recently have I been talking to christians that have suprised me, my pops being one of them.

Am I afraid of atheism? Not at all. Most intelligent people don't just believe in something for the sake of it, most people have arrived at their beliefs, of which could be everchanging. I was born and raised christian, turned into a atheist (just lost my faith, at the time I didn't consider myself as such), then Agnostic, and now just custom. I've never been religious, or even cared enough to say I was any certain religion if anyone asked.

I think atheists are generally too technical. They are very factual, and usually don't have much of an imagination for certain things. They rely completely on "facts" or lack of facts. Based on what I know about atheism, and what my atheist friends have told me, Atheism is an easy way out. Out of what? out of thinking about anything that isn't in their face, in their hands. Most of the atheist friends I have are not very deep thinkers, don't really seriously think about spirituality and religion, and all the parameters involved with them.

My atheist friends think all christians believe in the same "god", then same dude who lives up in the clouds, wears a white robe, and has a list of who is naughty and nice. I don't think atheists realize how many ways the bible can be interpreted, from a range of people with different mentalities and intelligences.

I believe in "god". I believe there is something greater than us, something beyond this physical reality we live in, of which human intelligence could never possibly comprehend. It's all around us, in the water we drink, to the dirt we walk on. I have a feeling when I die either nothing at all will happen at all, or it will be like waking up from an elaborate dream, and everything will make perfect sense. I believe the bible is a metaphor, a guide to living life. If you follow it your life will be "heaven", if you rape, murder, and steal, there is a good chance your life will be a living "hell". I believe in the concept of religion, and never preach my concepts onto others, I want people to believe in the bible. All I can do is live my life one day at a time attempting to make myself and all those around me as happy as possible.

What do you and other atheists believe in my friend?

Actually religion tends to be the easy way out of things. It's the easy way out of explaining things. How did we get here? God made us. How did the universe start? God started it. That's why there is the term God of the gaps, because God is used to fill in the gaps of what we know. If there's something we don't know, we just attribute it to God, and don't have to think about it. That's why, in general, atheists need to think more about things, because we don't just have a fall-back explanation.

 

[Magic Man]

No, the assumption that there is objective reality is based on the apparent universality of human experience of some sort of reality, and the consistency of models formulated to make predictions concerning this so-called reality.

Why is 'reality exists' a faith-based claim? Is there any reason to believe it doesn't exist?

Yes, the fact that it could all be a dream.