The fear of Atheism

[Storm]

Thank you for your substantial response.

By 'facile superstition,' I was talking about explanations having to do with 'synchronicity' or such vague paranormal speculation. I wasn't talking about God or religious belief in general.

But really, your civility demonstrates your sincere dedication to enlightened dialogue.

I'm being no less civil than you are. You're doing the exact same thing you whine about kdrier doing to you. That's called hypocrisy where I'm from, and I've learned, through much trial and error, not to hope for enlightened dialogue from hypocrites.

 

[kdrier]

No, just sick of seeing nonbelief characterized as some sort of emotional retardation, like you did in your post about how atheists have a 'lack of imagination' and aren't into 'deep thinking.' I love how you act so surprised that someone could take offense to such bigotry.

Lack of imagination and deep thinking as far as spirituality and religion goes, of which you've kind of already admitted, I didn't mean to offend. I get the impression atheists just claim they believe in nothing, and the main argument most of them have is there is no proof god exists, which is fine, I just think it's pointless saying that to followers because people that believe in god have faith he exists, based on thinking about things outside the box a little (proof is not required for faith)

looking objectively at our experiences, and trying to come to meaningful explanations for phenomena instead of just accepting facile superstition.

Most of our life experiences can be explained with logic, I agree. I think religion moreso explains things like who created us and the universe we live in.

 

[Magic Man]

Lack of imagation and deep thinking as far as spiritality and religion goes, of which you've kind of already admitted. I get the impression atheists just claim they believe in nothing, and the only thing they ever say is there is no proof god exists, which is fine, I just think it's pointless because people that believe in god have faith he exists, based on thinking about things outside the box a little (proof is not required for faith)



Most of our life experiences can be explained with logic, I agree. I think religion moreso explains things like who created us and the universe we live in.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by the claim of believing in nothing?

 

[kdrier]

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by the claim of believing in nothing?

mball, you gave me a good response to your stance on religion, of which I see where you're coming from. I have not spoke with many atheists, but the handful that I have spoke with just say they don't believe in anything at all. I'm guessing there is grey areas in atheism, I'm still unsure about it's system, but I'm learning. You're ideals just aren't the same as the other atheists I've spoken to.

 

[Magic Man]

mball, you gave me a good response to your stance on religion, of which I see where you're coming from. I have not spoke with many atheists, but the handful that I have spoke with just say they don't believe in anything at all. I'm guessing there is grey areas in atheism, I'm still unsure about it's system, but I'm learning. You're ideals just aren't the same as the other atheists I've spoken to.

My question, though, is what do you mean by nothing? I take that to mean that they don't believe in any "religion". Is that what you're getting at?

 

[kdrier]

That's exactly my point, I fail to see how some atheists believe in nothing, Maybe I just have not talked to proper atheists.

 

[Magic Man]

That's exactly my point, I fail to see how some atheists believe in nothing, Maybe I just have not talked to proper atheists.

And by nothing do you mean "no religion"? That's all I want to know.

 

[kdrier]

edit: I'll have to talk to them a bit more about it later, but I know they don't believe in religion or anything that involves religion, or any religious concepts. As far as believing religion shouldn't exist for other people I'm not sure what they think on the topic

Personally I don't believe in any higher power that would be considered a god because I have no good proof of it.

So as an atheist, you don't believe in a higher level of power? You don't believe something or a force created us? What do you think happened then?

We still have our world, planets, galaxies, the universe.

And where do you think they came from? I have no idea where they came from, but I can't help but imagine they didn't just appear one day, I think an uncomprehendable force caused them to be there.

 

[Magic Man]

edit: I'll have to talk to them a bit more about it later, but I know they don't believe in religion or anything that involves religion, or any religious concepts. As far as believing religion shouldn't exist for other people I'm not sure what they think on the topic



So as an atheist, you don't believe in a higher level of power? You don't believe something or a force created us? What do you think happened then?



And where do you think they came from? I have no idea where they came from, but I can't help but imagine they didn't just appear one day, I think an uncomprehendable force caused them to be there.

It's just that you imply that they believe in absolutely nothing which would include science and everything else. It would be clearer to say that they don't believe in any religion they know of, rather than nothing. I believe in things, just not of the religious sort.

Let me amend my statement by saying that I believe there is no higher intelligent power. There are forces of the universe including things like gravity and nuclear fusion and such, but I don't believe there is any such power that purposefully and knowingly creates things, as we humans do. Obvioulsy there was some force or forces at work to create the universe, but I don't think it or they were anything more than what science has found so far.

 

[Willamena]

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by the claim of believing in nothing?

You've learned to ask the good questions. :rainbow1:

 

[Magic Man]

You've learned to ask the good questions. :rainbow1:

I had a good teacher.

 

[Michel07]

Fear of atheism for me is an illusion. What's to fear? I just haven't been able to see the logic in a philosophy whose mantra is deny deny deny and whose only defense is another mantra purporting the need for proof that God exists in order for God to exist. It's not really logical. The Big Bang theory has been used against theism but what then was the catalyst for the Big Bang if the Big Bang is true? Nothing comes out of nothing. That's science. A Christian might look at all of that and say "hmm.. sounds a little bit like ' LET THERE BE LIGHT ' What if the Big Bang is quite simply the ramification of the Word of God, the catalyst for all creation. Sounds a lot like the Biblical account and theism in general. Nothwithstanding opinions there is nothing logical to the contrary of that view. That's where the buck stops. One does not need to understand the nature of God for God to be there.

" Religion without science is blind, science without religion is lame" Albert Einstein

 

[logician]

Fear of atheism for me is an illusion. What's to fear? I just haven't been able to see the logic in a philosophy whose mantra is deny deny deny and whose only defense is another mantra purporting the need for proof that God exists in order for God to exist. It's not really logical. The Big Bang theory has been used against theism but what then was the catalyst for the Big Bang if the Big Bang is true? Nothing comes out of nothing. That's science. A Christian might look at all of that and say "hmm.. sounds a little bit like ' LET THERE BE LIGHT ' What if the Big Bang is quite simply the ramification of the Word of God, the catalyst for all creation. Sounds a lot like the Biblical account and theism in general. Nothwithstanding opinions there is nothing logical to the contrary of that view. That's where the buck stops. One does not need to understand the nature of God for God to be there.

" Religion without science is blind, science without religion is lame" Albert Einstein

Quite the opposite is true, to neglect the history of religious myths and philosphy that was pre-existent to Christianity, and apply them to the evolution of Christianity, is quite illogical.

 

[Michel07]

Quite the opposite is true, to neglect the history of religious myths and philosphy that was pre-existent to Christianity, and apply them to the evolution of Christianity, is quite logical.

Deny deny deny. Its consistent like I said. Thanks.

 

[logician]

Deny deny deny. Its consistent like I said. Thanks.

And what is the problem with consistency?

 

[Michel07]

And what is the problem with consistency?

Consistently illogician?

 

[Fluffy]

and whose only defense is another mantra purporting the need for proof that God exists in order for God to exist. It's not really logical.

It is not the claim of atheism that proof of God's existence is needed in order for God to exist. God can exist regardless of whether we have proof of that. Rather, the claim of atheism (although not just atheism, theism quite commonly agrees on this as well) is that proof of God's existence is needed for us to be justified in believing in God's existence.

 

[s2a]

Hiya mball,

You said:

s2a: Basically, the point is that, in life, you have to take some things for granted. You can prove to yourself that you exist because you think, but I can't really prove to you that I think and therefore exist.

It's not your existence that is in question here. Point in fact, I'm quite willing to accept that "you" do exist with a capacity of engaged interaction within a community bulletin board. It's not much...but it's enough.

For all you know, I could be a figment of your imagination.

Possible, but unlikely. Besides, I have a developed imagination that may conjure far more interesting dialogues than any we have yet exchanged.

We assume that the sun will rise tomorrow because we've seen it do that for our entire lives. We have good reason to believe that will happen, but in the end, we don't know anything for sure. It's possible that the sun will not rise tomorrow for some unknown reason.

True.

But let's get a little more real here.

I can demonstrate that our Sun exists...and therefore why it's not unreasonable to expect and conclude that our own star will "rise" again in the 'morrow (after all, it's daylight somewhere on Earth at any given moment). Sure, our sun could go super-nova unexpectedly---but there's compelling evidential scientific theories/conclusions that suggest more immediate possibilities/probabilities are much more deserving of our worries and concerns than good ole' Sol exploding in our sleep. It's not "faith" that validates my confidence that "the sun will rise tomorrow"...it's an evidence-borne conclusion supported by evidences, likelihoods, and reasoned doubts. Employing your rationale, I utilize "faith" that I won't awaken with two heads on my shoulders, or a school bus in my bed. Sure...I guess you can merrily argue "it's possible"...but I ain't gonna loose any quality sleep over such unlikely "possibilities".

We decide to live our lives on the assumption that there is some sort of objective reality because it makes life easier.

I didn't "decide" to exist, and neither did you. You had no say in the matter whatsoever. You are a biological product of two other people gettin' their groove on. That's all. It's that simple, that ordinary, that common. It's been happening for thousands of generations of procreating homo sapiens. No big deal.

Thing is...I don't have the time or patience or inclination to wonder if existence is all but some metaphysical construct of my singular mind. I've had enough physical interactions with both fine ladies and nature to satisfy any remaining sophist's inanities of pointless inquiry.

That assumption is based on faith, and so our views begin with faith-based claims, and anything built on those primary faith-based claims ends up also being based on faith itself.

Bunk.

I acknowledge that your assumption is faith-based, and that's fine with me. But projecting your perspective as valid in application for all...is dumb.

Par example, when Escéptico asked you: "Why is 'reality exists' a faith-based claim" Is there any reason to believe it doesn't exist?"

You said: "Yes, the fact that it could all be a dream."

"The fact...?"

Suppositions and "maybes" are not facts, but they often do rely upon faith-based conclusions. There's enough "reality" out there to examine and experience to last a thousand human life-spans, and then some. And that is not a "faith-based claim".

;-)

 

[s2a]

Hiya turk179,

You said:

For someone as intelligent as you seem to be, you sure are slow on this whole topic. I will try to help you out a little.

Well gee, thanks. Your generosity of such insightful aid is unexpected, and sure to be of inestimable value.

No one cares about what you think or believe or know or whatever makes your knickers twisted.

I feel so...helped along...

We appear to only have a problem with you trying to make yourself feel like more of a man by jumping down someones throat who didn't mean any harm and didn't know any better.

How perspicacious of you to summarily categorize the capacities of others as inadequate or errant, or my own as testosterone-laden self-gratification. I feel so...enlightened...now...

Because the rest of your posts have been a healthy dose of semantics, it looks like you have accomplished your goal. So here is your cookie.

Umm...ok then...ummm, thanks then for confirming my own confidence and surety?

Perhaps I could "help you out" in kind?

Tell me, from whence did you enter? That same place might provide accommodating exit to your purposes.

 

[turk179]

Well gee, thanks. Your generosity of such insightful aid is unexpected, and sure to be of inestimable value.

Glad I could help.

I feel so...helped along...

Again...glad I could help.

How perspicacious of you to summarily categorize the capacities of others as inadequate or errant, or my own as testosterone-laden self-gratification. I feel so...enlightened...now...

*breaks out dictionary* Per...spica...aww to heck with it. To tired to look it up now. have to try again in a few hours.

Umm...ok then...ummm, thanks then for confirming my own confidence and surety?

Yet again, glad I could help.

Perhaps I could "help you out" in kind?

Tell me, from whence did you enter? That same place might provide accommodating exit to your purposes.

There are only a handful of times that I am glad for my lack of intelligence. This being one of them. Because something tells me that I am better off not understanding what the heck you just said.