The fear of Atheism

[turk179]

Hiya mball,

You said:
Hardly...but that is not a claim I have put forth for you to question, nor argue against. Is that your finest constructed scarecrow to place in the field?

Since you asked...I counsel that you either take a healthy sh!t, or get off the pot. No one likes the constipated guy that hogs the bathroom for hours on end. Agnostics are the unhappy fence-sitters of our days (and who wouldn't be, with those uncomfortable edges of noncommittal fence posts immediately pressing upon our most precious reproductive jewels); whom may profess grandiose self-awareness and derivative wisdoms that in fact, offer neither insights or nor revelations upon the human condition of any sort or measure at all...

Why? What is the reasoned aspect of your doubt?

I don't deal in "shadows"; I consider all available facts within the crucibles of reason and skepticism. I need not "prove" that the Easter Bunny does not exist...simply because some advocate claims (or insists) "He" does. The BURDEN of PROOF is incumbent upon the claimant themselves...not upon the skeptic.

I (personally) do not claim that "gods" do not exist.

I only reasonably conclude that such claims are insubstantial bunk.

Indeed.

I give odds that the Easter Bunny does not--in fact--"exist"...as claimed. What sort of "Pascal's Wager" shall we now indulge as satisfactory resolution of this dilemma?

Poor analogy on your part to thereupon premise such a comparison.

Pluto "exists" (as a cosmological body), but it's "classification" as a "planet" is merely a matter of scientific explanations and semantics; not of any/all other relevant facts.

Perhaps if we could measure or observe a (any) claimed "god" (like Pluto), we could [then] debate whether or not that "entity" conforms--within a consensus opinion--of whatever constitutes a "real" god; versus "something" that is "god-like".

Sure. I'll allow for the possibility that you are wrong.

Which is what...exactly?

Good.

Perhaps you're right. Some things aren't worth thinking about. After all, why bother?

I accept your faith-based conclusion as such.

I appreciate your forthright candor in reply.

Good.

Welcome to the debate.

I have.

Again...welcome.

For someone as intelligent as you seem to be, you sure are slow on this whole topic. I will try to help you out a little. No one cares about what you think or believe or know or whatever makes your knickers twisted. We appear to only have a problem with you trying to make yourself feel like more of a man by jumping down someones throat who didn't mean any harm and didn't know any better. Because the rest of your posts have been a healthy dose of semantics, it looks like you have accomplished your goal. So here is your cookie.

 

[Escéptico]

Atheism is an easy way out. Out of what? out of thinking about anything that isn't in their face, in their hands.

Actually, it's usually the result of thinking about one's experiences with a little objectivity. Everyone likes to attribute great significance to things that happen in their lives that can't be readily explained: amazing coincidences, overwhelming emotion, and weird goings-on of every sort. But honest inquiry into these experiences usually tells us more about the human brain than about any truly supernatural phenomena.

Most of the atheist friends I have are not very deep thinkers as far as spirituality and religion goes, and all the parameters involved with them.

Sorry, not everyone likes to play imaginary-friend games.

 

[Storm]

Sorry, not everyone likes to play imaginary-friend games.

You do realize you just made his point for him?

 

[kdrier]

Sorry, not everyone likes to play imaginary-friend games.

Thanks for being a prime example homie.

 

[Sola'lor]

You do realize you just made his point for him?

HAHAHA! That was awesome to watch.

 

[Magic Man]

Thanks for being a prime example homie.

While I agree with this, I do think people like your atheist friends and this are not the norm. Most in my experience have considered many possibilities and just come to the conclusion that none make sense to them.

 

[Storm]

While I agree with this, I do think people like your atheist friends and this are not the norm. Most in my experience have considered many possibilities and just come to the conclusion that none make sense to them.

I think it's a pretty even split.

 

[kdrier]

Actually religion tends to be the easy way out of things. It's the easy way out of explaining things. How did we get here? God made us. How did the universe start? God started it. That's why there is the term God of the gaps, because God is used to fill in the gaps of what we know. If there's something we don't know, we just attribute it to God, and don't have to think about it. That's why, in general, atheists need to think more about things, because we don't just have a fall-back explanation.

You need to think more about things? What exactly do you think more about? Answer my question at the end, what do you believe in? Do you believe in nothing? That we just appeared out of thin air? Surely you have to believe in something. Do you believe that god may or may not exist, we just don't know for sure? I still have yet to have someone answer my question on what they believe in, and tell me the main differences between being agnostic and being atheist for example. It seems to me atheists have absolutely nothing at all the think about. I would think the easy way out of explaining things is not explaining them at all, hence atheists. I don't believe in god or the bible too much though, I don't need nor care for an explanation regarding the universe or even life in general, I just have fun living it.

 

[Escéptico]

Thanks for being a prime example homie.

A prime example of someone with a career, family, curiosity, musical talent, artistic enthusiasm, emotion, and no interest whatsoever in religion or spirituality. Live with it.

 

[kdrier]

While I agree with this, I do think people like your atheist friends and this are not the norm. Most in my experience have considered many possibilities and just come to the conclusion that none make sense to them.

most of religion doesn't make sense. I just don't believe in the idea of believing in nothing. It just seems like a contradiction to me. I don't think it's possible to believe in nothing. I can understand not caring about religion at all, and just saying you are not religious, but coining yourself to being an atheist just seems strange to me, and of course that's just my opinion.

A prime example of someone with a career, family, curiosity, musical talent, artistic enthusiasm, emotion, and no interest whatsoever in religion or spirituality. Live with it.

Congratulations bud, I'd shake your hand if I could. I'm not sure where along the line you got the impression I'm trashing your character.. insecure? Having an interest in religion or spirituality has no baring on thinking about it for longer than a minute. But hey, your a successul human without thinking about things outside the box, mine as well not start now.

 

[Magic Man]

I think it's a pretty even split.

Maybe it is. From my experience, though, it's been more to the one side.

 

[Sola'lor]

mball you're also available in HD?

 

[Storm]

A prime example of someone with a career, family, curiosity, musical talent, artistic enthusiasm, emotion, and no interest whatsoever in religion or spirituality. Live with it.

When all else fails, pretend you don't know what we're talking about, huh? Sorry, but that doesn't cut it.

If you have no interest whatsoever in religion or spirituality, why are you here?

 

[Magic Man]

You need to think more about things? What exactly do you think more about? Answer my question at the end, what do you believe in? Do you believe in nothing? That we just appeared out of thin air? Surely you have to believe in something. Do you believe that god may or may not exist, we just don't know for sure? I still have yet to have someone answer my question on what they believe in, and tell me the main differences between being agnostic and being atheist for example. It seems to me atheists have absolutely nothing at all the think about. I would think the easy way out of explaining things is not explaining them at all, hence atheists. I don't believe in god or the bible too much though, I don't need nor care for an explanation regarding the universe or even life in general, I just have fun living it.

You know without religion there is still a universe to think about. The point of atheism is not to get out of explaining things, it's to explain them logically, using the scientific facts that we've found to this point. Science is what gave us the Big Bang theory. That is a logical beginning to the universe that makes sense to most people. That took years and years of study and research to come to. OTOH, just saying "Oh, God made the universe" takes all of 5 minutes to come up with.

All atheists don't believe the same thing, just as all religions don't. The only thing we have in common is the belief that there is no theistic god, such as the Abrahamic one. Personally I don't believe in any higher power that would be considered a god because I have no good proof of it.

The world is not nothing. The absence of a god doesn't mean there's nothing. We still have our world, planets, galaxies, the universe. I do believe that there is a chance that God exists. Anything is possible. The difference between my views and agnosticism is that I give God's existence much less chance of being right. Just as you can, I assume, admit the possibility that your god doesn't exist, I can admit that it might. A lot of Christians admit the possibility that they're wrong, but they're still Christians, not agnostics. I'm just the opposite.

And, as I said, atheism doesn't mean not explaining things, it just means explaining the same things religion does, but with real-world experience and research, not some "deus ex machina" (if you'll pardon the pun) kind of explanation that requires nothing more than a minute to learn.

 

[Magic Man]

mball you're also available in HD?

Yeah, it just costs extra.

 

[Sola'lor]

Yeah, it just costs extra.

I tried to give you a frubal but it didn't let me so here:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :biglaugh: THAT'S GREAT!!!!!!!! :biglaugh:

 

[kdrier]

Thank you for the intelligent reply mball. That answered a few of my questions.

The absence of a god doesn't mean there's nothing. We still have our world, planets, galaxies, the universe. I do believe that there is a chance that God exists. Anything is possible.

Very much so, and I agree. I'm just glad you know there is a chance. No one knows anything for sure. I don't really believe in the god that most people do. I don't believe it's one person, or anything like that. When I think of "God" I think of an object almost, a force, and form of life that is beyond our comprehension. Why do I believe in a higher level of being/force? Everything I know about life in general, cause and effect, etc. is a very real thing. Nothing can just happen, and everything in life is art... human design, the senses, these things seem like they were planned (created). I believe in this solely based on my human intellgence and life experience, of which I don't give much merit to.

edit: When I think about life and god and such, I like to compare to things I know about life and things we interact with. I like to think that life, and what we physically experience, is kind of like a website or a program. What we see, and physically encouter, is like a website... the buttons, the tooltips, and the colors, meanwhile all of these things only exist because of the html coding behind it. The coding behind the program is what makes it run, metaphorically I believe life is somewhat similiar. I believe someone/something (god) wrote the code of life and designed the interface that it runs.

 

[Escéptico]

I'm not sure where along the line you got the impression I'm trashing your character.. insecure?

No, just sick of seeing nonbelief characterized as some sort of emotional retardation, like you did in your post about how atheists have a 'lack of imagination' and aren't into 'deep thinking.' I love how you act so surprised that someone could take offense to such bigotry.

In the post you and others objected to, I offered an explanation for why atheists prefer to investigate the material mechanisms behind so-called supernatural experiences. This is what I call deep thinking: looking objectively at our experiences, and trying to come to meaningful explanations for phenomena instead of just accepting facile superstition.

 

[Storm]

No, just sick of seeing nonbelief characterized as some sort of emotional retardation, like you did in your post about how atheists have a 'lack of imagination' and aren't into 'deep thinking.' I love how you act so surprised that someone could take offense to such bigotry.

In the post you and others objected to, I offered an explanation for why atheists prefer to investigate the material mechanisms behind so-called supernatural experiences. This is what I call deep thinking: looking objectively at our experiences, and trying to come to meaningful explanations for phenomena instead of just accepting facile superstition.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Escéptico]

Pot, meet kettle.

Thank you for your substantial response.

By 'facile superstition,' I was talking about explanations having to do with 'synchronicity' or such vague paranormal speculation. I wasn't talking about God or religious belief in general.

But really, your civility demonstrates your sincere dedication to enlightened dialogue.