The First Cause was not God.

[Thief]

What point of agreement? That God is a magical being that does not exist?

At the 'point' of singularity....God said...Let there be light!

If God is not allowed to say....I AM!....how will you stand before heaven and say so?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A real case of miracle.

And what is a miracle but magic done by God?

 

[Thief]

And what is a miracle but magic done by God?

If you use the words interchanging at will....that won't help the discussion.

So...obviously.....you don't believe the will of spirit can influence substance?

And therefore substance can be 'self' creating and 'self' motivating?

So then Man is a complete mystery without purpose or resolve....
and nothing to look forward to but the grave.....?

 

[Runewolf1973]

If you use the words interchanging at will....that won't help the discussion.

So...obviously.....you don't believe the will of spirit can influence substance?

And therefore substance can be 'self' creating and 'self' motivating?

So then Man is a complete mystery without purpose or resolve....
and nothing to look forward to but the grave.....?

Man is a remarkable form that evolved over millions of years. What "substance" are you referring to? Matter is over 99% empty space.

 

[Runewolf1973]

At the 'point' of singularity....God said...Let there be light!

If God is not allowed to say....I AM!....how will you stand before heaven and say so?

Where is this heaven?

 

[Thief]

Man is a remarkable form that evolved over millions of years. What "substance" are you referring to? Matter is over 99% empty space.

Let there be light.

 

[Thief]

Where is this heaven?

Heaven is within you.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Heaven is within you.

Then why are you so worried about what happens after we die? Like Depak Chopra said..."You return to where you always were."

 

[Runewolf1973]

Let there be light.

Praise Jebus!! I see the light!

 

[Sonofason]

God apparently spoke special words to perform special actions...."Let there be light!"

Okay, then if you want to think God does magic, it is of no consequence to me. As long as it makes you feel better.

 

[Sonofason]

If it was done by will.....that would be supernatural.

Magicians and the devil use deception and redirection.

Heaven uses will.

It is my understanding that God is quite natural, nothing supernatural about God. It is quite natural for Him to exist.

Why do you suppose God is supernatural?

 

[Sonofason]

Heaven is within you.

If Heaven is with believers, then what is it exactly that Christ has gone to prepare for believers?

Is my mansion with me? If so, what do I need Christ for?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

God is supposed to be a "creator". He created the heavens and the Earth and living creatures out of nothing by speaking them into existence. This is logically impossible because the Earth, the stars, life forms, and everything else known to exist consist of energy. Energy cannot be created, it can only change form. The entire bible story of creation is just that...a story. There is nothing scientific or logical about it. Nothing was ever created, it only changed form.

First off, again, the whole "energy cannot be created or destroyed" is the first law of thermodynamics, which is a law that only comes in to effect after the universe began to exist. There is no scientific experiment that can state "this matter and energy has been here indefinitely forever." Second, it is logically impossible for matter to be "changing" forever and ever indefinitely.

 

[Runewolf1973]

First off, again, the whole "energy cannot be created or destroyed" is the first law of thermodynamics, which is a law that only comes in to effect after the universe began to exist. There is no scientific experiment that can state "this matter and energy has been here indefinitely forever." Second, it is logically impossible for matter to be "changing" forever and ever indefinitely.

....and this Earth and life on this Earth formed long after that beginning. Based on that first law of thermodynamics, it makes no sense to say that God created the Earth or life on this planet.

There is no scientific experiment that shows a God is plausible or even remotely necessary for the origin of the universe or anything in it.

 

[Thief]

If Heaven is with believers, then what is it exactly that Christ has gone to prepare for believers?

Is my mansion with me? If so, what do I need Christ for?

Instruction.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.....
is the Cornerstone.

I have placed my cornerstone in the center of my construction.
From this, all other foundation and support are radial.

 

[Thief]

It is my understanding that God is quite natural, nothing supernatural about God. It is quite natural for Him to exist.

Why do you suppose God is supernatural?

Which controls creation?.....Spirit?....or substance?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The concept of God is logically coherent.

Is it? How can you be sure?

Anything that is logically coherent is possible, unless you can show how the existence of such a being defies logical reasoning, then you must admit that the existence of God is at least possible. You may not want God to exist, or believe that he exists, but you cannot deny that God's existence is at least possible, and if not, then please explain why.

That depends on the God. Which one are we talking about here?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Is it? How can you be sure?


That depends on the God. Which one are we talking about here?

The logically coherent one of course, haha. I get a kick outta every time he says logically coherent.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

....and this Earth and life on this Earth formed long after that beginning.

But the point is, if it began, then a transcendent cause is necessary.

Based on that first law of thermodynamics, it makes no sense to say that God created the Earth or life on this planet.

Yes it does, unless you are claiming that matter has existed forever and ever and has been changing forms forever and ever.....if that is your claim, then you are saying that infinite regression is possible, thus, giving birth to logical absurdities, and if that is the price of naturalism, then I will leave you to it.

There is no scientific experiment that shows a God is plausible or even remotely necessary for the origin of the universe or anything in it.

Our universe began to exist, wolf. Everything that begins to exist has a cause, wolf. The only thing you can do is posit a pre-big bang scenario, which will only push the question or origins back one step further.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Is it? How can you be sure?

Because no one can conceive of something that is logically incoherent. I can't conceive of a squared circle, or a shirt that is all red and all blue at the same time...or someone that is more than 6ft tall but less than 5ft tall. The concept of God is conceivable. We can conceive of such a being, and if something is conceivable it is possible...unless you can point out a logical flaw based on the concept of God, which I don't think you can do.

That depends on the God. Which one are we talking about here?

The Christian one, of course.