The flood in Genesis

[darkendless]

Agreed, not a world wide flood. But I do think it was something that involved flooding. Too many cultures have stories that center around a flood for it to be a coincidence. It could be a very ancient memory of when the Black Sea flooded or a meteor impact that caused drastic weather pattern changes and storms. As you said, who knows?

I'm sorry but according to some other my posts are irrelevant, so im completely wrong and my opinion doesn't count.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Now, are there any relevant responses to itwillend's question?

itwillend's question is based on the acceptance that the Noah story is literal. I do not believe it to be literal.

However, maybe this article has some info of interest.

The Great Mediterranean Desert

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I'm sorry but according to some other my posts are irrelevant, so im completely wrong and my opinion doesn't count.

Yeah, me too. I just don't let it stop me.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

itwillend's question is based on the acceptance that the Noah story is literal. I do not believe it to be literal.

However, maybe this article has some info of interest.

The Great Mediterranean Desert

Trey why does it have to be literal to find greater meaning? I guess I am saying that there is no doubt truth found in scripture, and as we examine parts like the OP we are able to address if there is something to be learned.
However if you are of the mindset, that the words are just arbitrarily placed in the entire scripture, than truly this excercise will have no value for you.
No big deal, but I never said this had to be understood literally in order to discuss and analyze.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The lunar month is 29.53059 days. All information I've read pertaining to the Hebrew calendar suggest alternating months of 29 and 30 days and an 11 day/year drift. See, for example, here. Similarly, here we read:

A lunar calendar is a calendar that is based on cycles of the moon phase. The only widely used purely lunar calendar is the Islamic calendar or Hijri calendar, whose year always consists of 12 lunar months. A feature of a purely lunar year, on the Islamic calendar model, is that the calendar ceases to be linked to the seasons, and drifts each year by 11 days (or 12 days in case of leap year), and comes back to the position it had in relation to the solar year approximately every 33 Islamic years. It is used predominantly for religious purposes. In Saudi Arabia it is also used for commercial purposes.

Most lunar calendars, except the Hijri, are in fact lunisolar calendars. That is, months are kept on a lunar cycle, but then intercalary months are added to bring the lunar cycles into synchronisation with the solar year.

Because there are about twelve lunations (synodic months) in a solar year, this period (354.37 days) is sometimes referred to as a lunar year.

Exposure to the current Hebrew calendar is available at hebcal.com

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

itwillend's question is based on the acceptance that the Noah story is literal.

No, it is not.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

The lunar month is 29.53059 days. All information I've read pertaining to the Hebrew calendar suggest alternating months of 29 and 30 days and an 11 day/year drift. See, for example, here. Similarly, here we read:Exposure to the current Hebrew calendar is available at hebcal.com

OK I see what you are saying. Could you take a stab at the verses and tell me how many actual days you think would have elapsed when they exited the ark?

Thanks...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

No, it is not.

Really?

I noticed studying the story of the flood that Noah entered the ark at a certain date, and then exited the ark at a certain date. According to my calulations it was exactly 370 days from the time they entered to the time they exited.

What was curious about this to me, was the fact the land had become dry 2 months and 27 days prior to then exiting. Why dos the story have them hanging out another 2 months and 27 days before exiting.

Any Genesis buffs here, want to shed some light?

Thanks...

Noah entered the ark at a certain date. This isn't taking the Noah story literal? Quoteing the exact amount of time the land was dry prior to the flood isn't literal? I must be missing something.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Trey why does it have to be literal to find greater meaning? I guess I am saying that there is no doubt truth found in scripture, and as we examine parts like the OP we are able to address if there is something to be learned.
However if you are of the mindset, that the words are just arbitrarily placed in the entire scripture, than truly this excercise will have no value for you.
No big deal, but I never said this had to be understood literally in order to discuss and analyze.

Not at all. I was responding to someone else, not you. But your OP was asking about specific facts that take the Noah story literally. The number of days of draught prior to the flood for example. While it is interesting that this should be noted and it could have a basis in fact, I'm not sure what spiritual value it might have. But I'm willing to listen.

 

[painted wolf]

When you have cultures growing up next to major river systems... you get flood myths.
It's not that hard to understand.

A particularly bad flood can, in time, be regarded as much more massive than it was... say destroying the "whole world". (at least as far as the "whole world" was understood.)

wa:do

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Not at all. I was responding to someone else, not you. But your OP was asking about specific facts that take the Noah story literally. The number of days of draught prior to the flood for example. While it is interesting that this should be noted and it could have a basis in fact, I'm not sure what spiritual value it might have. But I'm willing to listen.

I think we are splitting hairs here. You see I can take this as literal information for analysis purposes and still not believe they happened. My beliefs are irrelevant to the texts. I am taking the text at face (or literal) value to discuss.
Understand?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I think we are splitting hairs here. You see I can take this as literal information for analysis purposes and still not believe they happened. My beliefs are irrelevant to the texts. I am taking the text at face (or literal) value to discuss.
Understand?

Ummmm, no. :sarcastic I find that an odd way of looking at it but no worries, carry on and I'll try to keep up.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Noah entered the ark at a certain date. This isn't taking the Noah story literal? Quoteing the exact amount of time the land was dry prior to the flood isn't literal? I must be missing something.

I believe so.

Let's accept that the story is mythic. Let's also accept that it evolved. Finally, let's accept that it is one of a very, very small number of refined stories that 'made the cut,' i.e., that were intentionally passed from one generation to the next by 'professional' storytellers committed to transmitting the history, values, and lore of their people.

When confronted with apparent contradictions in such narratives it is tempting to pretend that they had somehow escaped the recognition or concern of generations of speakers and listeners. This is simply demeaning. It is far more likely that true contradictions would have been addressed and harmonized, and that what we see as internal contradictions are really clues that there is something about the story, the context, or the idiom that we just don't fully understand. Understanding it does not make the story more 'true,' but it does render it more coherent.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Ummmm, no. :sarcastic I find that an odd way of looking at it ...

Don't go into anthropology :sarcastic

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I believe so.

You are talking about the bible and I'm talking about itwillend. I'm saying that itwillend's OP was taking the Noah story literally. He himself has said that while he doesn't necesarily believe the Noah story, he was speaking of it literally in the OP.

As for what you are saying, sure, I can see that.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Jay, not sure if my earlier post was overlooked, but could you comment on how many days you calculate might have passed in the OP. Greatly appreciated.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jay, not sure if my earlier post was overlooked, but could you comment on how many days you calculate might have passed in the OP. Greatly appreciated.

Did post # 28 not address this?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Did post # 28 not address this?

Well I have to admit I did not understand part of your post.

I see that you say there are a 29 and 30 day count. Am I to just go off of the current Hebrew calendar and assume it has never changed. Then I can look at each month and add up what a year would be. If this is what you meant, than yes I can simply do the math. Am I understanding your response?

But the part about "p" and "j" I do not understand. If this is part of the answer and you care to elaborate that would be nice.

Thanks...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sorry. I do not understand what you do not understand. The lunar month is - and has been for quite some time - roughly 29.53 days. Twelve such months would therefore be approximately 354.367 days, or nearly 11 days shy of a year. There is a strong tendency for the Tanakh to deal in standard time frames: weeks, years, 40-year periods, etc. The Priestly source painted a picture such that "the judgment of the Generation of the Flood was for a whole year."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As for J and P, see Documentary hypothesis