The fool has said

[Tumah]

Israel is people. Correct? If so then you are saying that people gain strength with knowing that other people say in heart, "there is no G-d", and bad things happening because of that condition. Really? Also, every second of every day bad things are being done by people with no fear of God in their hearts. So how does knowing that make a person STRONG?

You're looking at the wrong side of the Psalm.

 

[savagewind]

You're looking at the wrong side of the Psalm.

I suppose I should be happy that you imply I am looking at the Psalm, but the wrong side of it. A like for funny.

 

[Tumah]

I suppose I should be happy that you imply I am looking at the Psalm, but the wrong side of it. A like for funny.

That's not what I implied, its what I said. Look at the last verse, not the first verse.

 

[savagewind]

That's not what I implied, its what I said. Look at the last verse, not the first verse.

OK. Psalm 14:7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the LORD restores his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

I do not believe it really says that

I think it is about the Lord returning to Israel.

How is it not saying the people turn back YHVH to them?

 

[savagewind]

Oh
Oh that
out of Zion
the salvation
yiś-rā-’êl
brings back
יְ֭הוָה
the captivity
of people
shall rejoice
Jacob
shall be glad
Israel

I see, "brings back YHVH"

 

[savagewind]

Has The Lord been with Israel always?

"be careful how you answer"

 

[Tumah]

OK. Psalm 14:7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the LORD restores his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

I do not believe it really says that

I think it is about the Lord returning to Israel.

How is it not saying the people turn back YHVH to them?

I'm not really sure what to say to that.
בשוב - with [the] returning
'ה - YWHW
שבות - [the] captured
עמו - [of] His nation
יגל - will rejoice
יעקב - Jacob
ישמח - will be happy
ישראל - Israel

It English it says, With the returning by YHWH of the captured of His nation, Jacob will rejoice, Israel will be happy.
It can't be speaking about G-d Himself, since G-d is not part of the nation, He is the G-d of the nation. So He can't be called, "the captured of the nation".

 

[savagewind]

I'm not really sure what to say to that.
בשוב - with [the] returning
'ה - YWHW
שבות - [the] captured
עמו - [of] His nation
יגל - will rejoice
יעקב - Jacob
ישמח - will be happy
ישראל - Israel

It English it says, With the returning by YHWH of the captured of His nation, Jacob will rejoice, Israel will be happy.
It can't be speaking about G-d Himself, since G-d is not part of the nation, He is the G-d of the nation. So He can't be called, "the captured of the nation".

Right! Put a period after God's Name and read it.
The salvation of Israel brings back YHVH. Then the people will rejoice in that they were captive. Jacob will be glad in Israel. [Jacob is Israel].

Freedom is unknown to people who have always been free. Right? Freedom is so much better after captivity. It is human nature.

 

[Tumah]

Right! Put a period after God's Name and read it.
The salvation of Israel brings back YHVH. Then the people will rejoice in that they were captive. Jacob will be glad in Israel. [Jacob is Israel].

Freedom is unknown to people who have always been free. Right? Freedom is so much better after captivity. It is human nature.

I see what you mean, but you can't read it like that in the Hebrew, it makes sentence fragments (Who will give from Zion?) and some of it is nonsensical (Jacob will be glad in Israel, its not two different people). And also in general, the verse becomes very choppy and just doesn't read well.

 

[savagewind]

I see what you mean, but you can't read it like that in the Hebrew, it makes sentence fragments (Who will give from Zion?) and some of it is nonsensical (Jacob will be glad in Israel, its not two different people). And also in general, the verse becomes very choppy and just doesn't read well.

Jacob and Israel ARE two different people. Jacob was a freeman, but Israel belonged to YHVH.
Jacob will be glad to have accepted his name change, thus his devotion to doing God's will.

 

[Tumah]

Jacob and Israel ARE two different people. Jacob was a freeman, but Israel belonged to YHVH.

Double check Ex. 19:3 and then notice how many people Moses spoke to.

 

[savagewind]

The hope that salvation comes from Zion makes perfect sense. Oh that it does not come from nations apart from YHVH.

 

[savagewind]

Double check Ex. 19:3 and then notice how many people Moses spoke to.

Yes. The descendants of Jacob are flesh. The people of Israel are of the spirit. Not all the descendants of Jacob are Israel because Israel carries the promise of YHVH and not all people of the nation of Israel carry it.

 

[Tumah]

Yes. The descendants of Jacob are flesh. The people of Israel are of the spirit. Not all the descendants of Jacob are Israel because Israel carries the promise of YHVH and not all people of the nation of Israel carry it.

You just made that up.

 

[savagewind]

You just made that up.

No. I didn't. I just made up the words. The two conditions are very real. The promise was made to Abraham and ISRAEL accepted it. Not everyone of the descendants of Abraham accept it. True?

 

[savagewind]

Flesh can not work the will of God. Spirit can.

 

[Tumah]

No. I didn't. I just made up the words. The two conditions are very real. The promise was made to Abraham and ISRAEL accepted it. Not everyone of the descendants of Abraham accept it. True?

I have no idea what you're talking about.
Moses went up mountain. G-d says, "so shall you say to the house of Jacob and tell the children of Israel." Moses comes down the mountain. Moses gathers the elders and the nation and tells them. It doesn't have him telling anyone else. Clearly the house of Jacob and the children of Israel are the same.

 

[savagewind]

I have no idea what you're talking about.
Moses went up mountain. G-d says, "so shall you say to the house of Jacob and tell the children of Israel." Moses comes down the mountain. Moses gathers the elders and the nation and tells them. It doesn't have him telling anyone else. Clearly the house of Jacob and the children of Israel are the same.

A mustang is a horse but not all horses are mustangs. The children of Israel are the house of Jacob. But the house of Jacob is not the children of Israel.
WHO changed Jacob's name? And why?

 

[Tumah]

A mustang is a horse but not all horses are mustangs. The children of Israel are the house of Jacob. But the house of Jacob is not the children of Israel.
WHO changed Jacob's name? And why?

G-d did. He didn't state His reasoning. Although we might venture that the change from Jacob comes from the same root word as "heel" while Israel is related to the word "prince/officer". So that might have something to do with it. But who knows.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Psalms 14:1 Compare Job 30:8

People have claimed and are claiming that Psalm 14:1 is about atheists. But what if it isn't?

It has occurred to be, a former Jehovah's Witness, that according to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witness there is no Jehovah for me if I do not go back to them. Whenever anyone leaves the Christain Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses it is said by the JWs that we have left Jehovah.

Might Psalm 14:1 be about the belief that God is only for some people, and not all people?

It is foolish of me to say that Jehovah is not for you. Correct? That is what I think Psalm 14:1 says. Am I right?

It says in the Text to believe in the father and son...nothing about any organisation. so I would not worry about it.