The global flood

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thanks. Almost anyone who had visited religious discussion forums a lot and read that poll would conclude that YEC and flood mythers do go hand in hand.

From which you conclude what? (Of worth, that is.)

 

[Agnostic75]

From which you conclude what? (Of worth, that is.)

No comment.

 

[outhouse]

From which you conclude what? (Of worth, that is.)

More empty replys :slap:


neither friendly or educational

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From which you conclude what? (Of worth, that is.)

No comment.

..., i.e., nothing of worth. That pretty much covers it.

 

[fallingblood]

You know

Ill throw in.


YEC and flood mythers do go hand in hand.


I thought your poll was very clear in this respect. weird

Did you look at the poll from Gallup (the one from Pew is actually different, just thought I would mention it), or did you look at what Wikipedia stated? Because the Gallup poll never used the term flood, or Noah, or anything like that. It didn't talk about YEC, about creationism in general, the flood. And if you look at the questions that were asked for that poll, there is no mention of the global flood, or the age of the earth.

The Wikipedia article says stuff about the flood, but it did not come from the poll they cited. In fact, I have no idea where that information came from, as I can't track it down anywhere. So no, the poll was not clear. Wikipedia simply screwed up the information.

 

[fallingblood]

Message to fallingblood: You said "also, it is not obvious that those who believe in a global flood are YEC. The two don't go hand in hand."

Do you dispute my premises that 1) most people who believe that the earth is young also believe that a global flood occurred, and that 2) most people who believe that a global flood occurred also believe that the earth is young?

I thought I have been quite clear on this. Yes, YECers generally believe that there is a global flood. Now, and I will make this bold, those who believe in a global flood are not necessarily YECs. You have shown no evidence of this. Instead, you tried to use a logical fallacy in order to show it.

I provided a poll that shows that 40% of the people who were polled believe that the earth is young, and that a global flood occurred. You have not provided any polls, nor can you, that show that there are more than a mere handful of people who accept only one of those beliefs. I doubt that you would be able to produce even a mere handful of people who only accept one of those claims. I assume that everyone at these forums who accepts one of those claims accepts the other claim. Would you like for me to start a new thread and conduct a poll? If so, great, and I would also like to conduct some polls at some other religious discussion websites.

I have to conclude you didn't read that poll. Because I did read that poll from Gallup (as well as a similar one from Pew), and neither mention a flood, or YEC. I am using the poll you are referencing, which is a Gallup poll (which I actually did read). Now, the Wikipedia entry you linked to supported your claim; however, they don't cite a source (and if they are citing the Gallup poll, then they simply didn't actually read it). So Wikipedia simply did not support the claim.

Finally, I don't have the burden of proof. You made a claim, and you can't back it up. You have the burden of proof, and must support your claim. And really, until you can, your assumption is unsupported.

 

[outhouse]

Did you look at the poll from Gallup (the one from Pew is actually different, just thought I would mention it), or did you look at what Wikipedia stated? Because the Gallup poll never used the term flood, or Noah, or anything like that. It didn't talk about YEC, about creationism in general, the flood. And if you look at the questions that were asked for that poll, there is no mention of the global flood, or the age of the earth.

The Wikipedia article says stuff about the flood, but it did not come from the poll they cited. In fact, I have no idea where that information came from, as I can't track it down anywhere. So no, the poll was not clear. Wikipedia simply screwed up the information.

Beliefs of the U.S. public about evolution and creation

I was going with this



It doesnt have to mention a flood, YEC are generally literalist which includes the flood.

I would have to think more people believe in a global flood then the earth being 6-10k of age.


I dont put to much weight into the polls, it does match up with the people I work with though.

I understand geographic location is everything for polls like these. get this in a low income are and it will go up, high income equals less belief

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Now, and I will make this bold, those who believe in a global flood are not necessarily YECs. You have shown no evidence of this.

Of course, but what is the relevance of the point?

To the best of my knowledge the consensus of every relevant field of science speaks against the flood as portrayed in Genesis. I can think of no conceivable reason to stand against this consensus other than a commitment to a literal interpretation of scripture. That is, of course, your choice, but then the question becomes: where do you draw the line?

 

[fallingblood]

Beliefs of the U.S. public about evolution and creation

I was going with this



It doesnt have to mention a flood, YEC are generally literalist which includes the flood.

I would have to think more people believe in a global flood then the earth being 6-10k of age.


I dont put to much weight into the polls, it does match up with the people I work with though.

I understand geographic location is everything for polls like these. get this in a low income are and it will go up, high income equals less belief

Yes, YEC are generally literalist which includes the flood. However, if you notice, the poll never talks about the age of the earth.

Just because one believes that people were formed 10,000 years ago, that doesn't mean they believe that they think Earth was created at that point. In fact, many see the seven days of creation metaphorically. Not as single days in our understanding, but thousands of years (a Godly day).

There are a number of ways in which one can believe that man was created 10,000 years ago, yet don't think the earth is that young. The two do not go hand in hand.

 

[fallingblood]

Of course, but what is the relevance of the point?

To the best of my knowledge the consensus of every relevant field of science speaks against the flood as portrayed in Genesis. I can think of no conceivable reason to stand against this consensus other than a commitment to a literal interpretation of scripture. That is, of course, your choice, but then the question becomes: where do you draw the line?

I agree. I accept that there was no flood. What I'm not accepting is the statement from Agnostic75 that all people who believe in the flood are Young Earth Creationists. That simply is not a statement he has supported.

 

[Agnostic75]

Edit: Deletion of duplicate post.

 

[outhouse]

Yes, YEC are generally literalist which includes the flood. However, if you notice, the poll never talks about the age of the earth.

Just because one believes that people were formed 10,000 years ago, that doesn't mean they believe that they think Earth was created at that point. In fact, many see the seven days of creation metaphorically. Not as single days in our understanding, but thousands of years (a Godly day).

There are a number of ways in which one can believe that man was created 10,000 years ago, yet don't think the earth is that young. The two do not go hand in hand.

If people believe god made man within the last 10,000 years they are pretty much YEC even if it doesnt state it.

That is a literalist view, people in general are pretty dumb

Americans' views on human origins vary significantly by level of education and religiosity. Those who are less educated are more likely to hold a creationist view.

Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism

 

[Agnostic75]

I agree. I accept that there was no flood. What I'm not accepting is the statement from Agnostic75 that all people who believe in the flood are Young Earth Creationists.

I never said "all." I said "most."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I agree. I accept that there was no flood. What I'm not accepting is the statement from Agnostic75 that all people who believe in the flood are Young Earth Creationists. That simply is not a statement he has supported.

Never let shallow and inept arguments define the debate. :no:

 

[fallingblood]

If people believe god made man within the last 10,000 years they are pretty much YEC even if it doesnt state it.

That is a literalist view, people in general are pretty dumb

Americans' views on human origins vary significantly by level of education and religiosity. Those who are less educated are more likely to hold a creationist view.

Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism

Read the poll. Because the title is actually misleading. Also, strict creationism and YEC do not go hand in hand.

 

[outhouse]

Read the poll. Because the title is actually misleading. Also, strict creationism and YEC do not go hand in hand.

they do when you add within the last 10,000 years

 

[Agnostic75]

Please provide the name of a church where a lot of people believe that God created humans pretty much as they are about 10,000 years ago, but do not believe that the earth is young, and that a global flood occurred. If such churches exist, that is fine, but I am not aware of any. If there are any, I assume that there are very few of them.

Faith Family Church. They were such a church.

No, I need the name and location of a church that I can check out in order to verify your claim. I am not saying that you did not tell the truth. You might just be mistaken. It is reasonable for me to ask you for sources that back up your claims.

Why would some believe that God created humans pretty much as they are about 10,000 years ago (Premise 1), but not believe that the earth is young (Premise 2), and that a global flood occurred (Premise 3). On what basis would they accept Premise 1, and reject the other two premises?

 

[outhouse]

There you have these two topic already in the poll that are very clear.

smells like Y and taste like C = Y C Hmm not hard to fill in that blank in the middle LOL


really you cant get to Y C without a literal reading, which gives us YEC


Sorry you dont like the math, doesnt mean its wrong

 

[Agnostic75]

I thought I have been quite clear on this. Yes, YECers generally believe that there is a global flood.

There is a difference between "generally" and "most." I said that most people who accept one accept the other. I assume that the figure would be over 99%. The word "generally" would not be comparable to a statistic of over 99%. A statistic of over 99% would qualify as "hand in hand." I do not have such a statistic, but I suggest that we conduct some polls at these forums, and at some other religious discussion forums.

I have to conclude you didn't read that poll. Because I did read that poll from Gallup (as well as a similar one from Pew), and neither mention a flood, or YEC. I am using the poll you are referencing, which is a Gallup poll (which I actually did read). Now, the Wikipedia entry you linked to supported your claim; however, they don't cite a source (and if they are citing the Gallup poll, then they simply didn't actually read it). So Wikipedia simply did not support the claim.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/feb/16/20040216-113955-2061r/

Monday, February 16, 2004

God’s creation of the Earth, Noah and the flood, Moses at the Red Sea: These pivotal stories from the Old Testament still resonate deeply with most Americans, who take the accounts literally rather than as a symbolic lesson.

An ABC News poll released Sunday found that 61 percent of Americans believe the account of creation in the Bible’s book of Genesis is “literally true” rather than a story meant as a “lesson.”

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.

The poll, with a margin of error of 3 percentage points, was conducted Feb. 6 to 10 among 1,011 adults.

 

[outhouse]

The point is so moot, I agree YEC probably are not 40% of the population

BUT 40% ish are lacking enough education to join reality


But I gues this serves a purpose of sidetracking the debate of the reality of the flood