The global flood

[Jayhawker Soule]

A statistic of over 99% would qualify as "hand in hand."

Sort of a sliding scale of statistical similes:

• 70.0% - 79.9% ::= hoof n mouth
• 80.0% - 89.9% ::= tongue n cheek
• 90.0% - 99.9% ::= hand n hand

Excellent.

 

[fallingblood]

There is a difference between "generally" and "most." I said that most people who accept one accept the other. I assume that the figure would be over 99%. The word "generally" would not be comparable to a statistic of over 99%. A statistic of over 99% would qualify as "hand in hand." I do not have such a statistic, but I suggest that we conduct some polls at these forums, and at some other religious discussion forums.

Okay, do some polls. Then back up your statement (also, noting, your initial argument still failed).

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/feb/16/20040216-113955-2061r/

Yeah, because that isn't outdated. Not to mention, a very small test sample.

A newer poll, still somewhat outdated (at doesn't really mention YEC) is this: One-Third of Americans Believe the Bible Is Literally True It is from 2007 and shows about 31%. Much lower than your poll (and this is a little more credible). Again, still a little outdated, yet newer than yours.

Now, if you do that actual comparison, you will get that YECs actually compose only about 4-5 percent of the population (at most, 12%). So really, your argument fails. (When I say comparison, I mean looking at each denomination in the U.S. and checking out their official stance on the subject. I did just that, and got about 11%. That is assuming that all of their adherents believe such. Which is quite unlikely).

 

[outhouse]

Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times

2004 poll showing 60% belief in flood


more people should believe in the flood then YEC, there not that smart.

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.
The poll, with a margin of error of 3 percentage points, was conducted Feb. 6 to 10 among 1,011 adults.

 

[fallingblood]

Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times

2004 poll showing 60% belief in flood


more people should believe in the flood then YEC, there not that smart.

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.
The poll, with a margin of error of 3 percentage points, was conducted Feb. 6 to 10 among 1,011 adults.

Look at that date. It is outdated. I posted a newer survey (still partially outdated, but better. And a better sample) in my previous post.

 

[outhouse]

I knew yours was 07 but was it flood only?

 

[fallingblood]

I knew yours was 07 but was it flood only?

It is a literalist view (at least the 31% is that I quoted). And I do stand corrected, the sample size isn't much better. But it does suggest something quite different. And I do have a tendency to believe Gallup more than the other source (which I'm not exactly sure where it comes from, as I have seen it credited to a couple of sources now).

 

[Agnostic75]

A newer poll, still somewhat outdated (at doesn't really mention YEC) is this: One-Third of Americans Believe the Bible Is Literally True It is from 2007 and shows about 31%. Much lower than your poll (and this is a little more credible). Again, still a little outdated, yet newer than yours.

.......YECs actually compose only about 4-5 percent of the population (at most, 12%).

That article says that "about one-third of Americans today believe the Bible is absolutely accurate and that it should be taken literally word for word." That discredits your maximum of 12% claim regarding YEC. "Absolutely accurate" implies belief in a global flood, and belief in a global flood implies belief in a young earth.

Please provide evidence regarding your maximum of 12% YEC claim. I believe that the actual figure is much higher.

An article at Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism says that a December 17, 2010 Gallup Poll shows that "four in 10 Americans, slightly fewer today than in years past, believe God created humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago." Surely a very large percentage of that group are young earth creationists, and believe that a global flood occurred.

 

[Agnostic75]

Faith Family Church. They were such a church.

No, I need the name and location of a church that I can check out in order to verify your claim. I am not saying that you did not tell the truth. You might just be mistaken. It is reasonable for me to ask you for sources that back up your claims.

How can more than a relative handful of Christians believe that God created humans pretty much like they are today about 10,000 years ago and not believe that the earth is young, and/or not believe that a global flood occurred?

 

[outhouse]

It is a literalist view (at least the 31% is that I quoted). And I do stand corrected, the sample size isn't much better. But it does suggest something quite different. And I do have a tendency to believe Gallup more than the other source (which I'm not exactly sure where it comes from, as I have seen it credited to a couple of sources now).

I just figure logic dictates there are more flood mythers then YEC because you can have people that claim a old earth and a flood at a unknown date.

none of the polls are completely accurate

 

[Agnostic75]

Consider the following:

USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

2010

U.S. population - 308,745,538

Persons under 18 years - 24%

So there are about 234 million adults in the U.S. That means that If 31% of adults believe that the Bible is absolutely accurate and should be taken literally, reference a Gallup poll that fallingblood mentioned, about 71 million Americans believe that the Bible is absolutely accurate and should be taken literally. Surely the majority of those 71 million Americans, probably the vast majority, believe that the earth is young, and that a global flood occurred. Biblical literalists typically believe that the earth is young, and that a global flood occurred.

 

[outhouse]

there are more flood mythers then YEC

 

[fallingblood]

I just figure logic dictates there are more flood mythers then YEC because you can have people that claim a old earth and a flood at a unknown date.

none of the polls are completely accurate

That is what I have been saying. Agnostic75 seems to think that all people who believe in the flood are YECs. In fact, one doesn't even to be a creationist to believe on the flood.

 

[fallingblood]

Agnostic75. Just look up old earth creationists. That will show that you are beyond a doubt wrong.

 

[outhouse]

That is what I have been saying. Agnostic75 seems to think that all people who believe in the flood are YECs. In fact, one doesn't even to be a creationist to believe on the flood.

i agree with you on this


only adding every YEC is definatly a flood myther, well 99.9% people are crazy enough to fool you

 

[Agnostic75]

Agnostic75 seems to think that all people who believe in the flood are YECs.

No, I said "most," not "all."

In fact, one doesn't even to be a creationist to believe on the flood.

But I have already told you that I was referring to the group of creationists who are literatlist creationists, and there are tens of millions of them even based upon one of your own Gallup polls.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

You know

Ill throw in.

YEC and flood mythers do go hand in hand.

That's been my experience, too. Generally the two beliefs seem to go together.

 

[rusra02]

No historical record. Whenever Noah lived, there were Chinese living on the other side of the globe, and they didn't seem to notice being wiped from the face of the earth.

Unless Noah lived in some magical time and place outside of normal human history, I mean.

Of course, there is plenty of water on earth today to cover the earth to a depth of thousands of feet. The pre-Flood world apparently did not have mountains several miles high, as exist today. In fact, these were likely an effect of the Flood.
Your statement about Chinese living elsewhere is pure speculation. The dates archeologists assign to ancient events are notoriously unreliable.

 

[rusra02]

"the storm had swept...for seven days and seven nights" — Ziusudra 203
"For seven days and seven nights came the storm" — Atrahasis III,iv, 24
"Six days and seven nights the wind and storm" — Gilgamesh XI, 127
"rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights" — Genesis 7:12
​

"He offered a sacrifice" — Atrahasis III,v, 31
"And offered a sacrifice" — Gilgamesh XI, 155
"offered burnt offerings on the altar" — Genesis 8:20
"built an altar and sacrificed to the gods" — Berossus.
​

"The gods smelled the savor" — Atrahasis III,v,34
"The gods smelled the sweet savor" — Gilgamesh XI, 160
"And the Lord smelled the sweet savor..." — Genesis 8:21
​

That's your proof that the Flood account ins Genesis is based on a Sumerian legend?
The Flood predates the legend of Gilgamesh, but this legend, like others around the world, does reveal a collective memory of the Flood, albeit a distorted memory.

 

[rusra02]

wrong


the flood and the man have some historicity

the bible has neither

I find it interesting you find an allegedly immoral demi-god Gilgamesh to have some historicity, but claim the Bible's historical account mythology. Hmm.. .I wonder why?

 

[Noaidi]

The pre-Flood world apparently did not have mountains several miles high, as exist today. In fact, these were likely an effect of the Flood.

Geological reference for this claim, please.