The Hard Truth about Terrorism

[Acim]

Colonialism destroyed the spiritual authority of Islam in the Middle East. Islam asserts that Allah will never allow the non-Muslims to prevail over the Muslims.

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

Colonialism proved that this is false. Hence, it proved that Islam is false. That's why the Middle East suddenly forgot about Islam. They lost their faith. One of the most efficient ways to kill the Muslim's faith in Islam is to utterly defeat them on the battlefield.

Where is this battlefield of which you speak? Perhaps better question, are you referencing anything that is current?

 

[First Baseman]

And Muslim extremists don't speak for every Muslim on the planet. But there are still Christian extremists out there and denying it under 'no true scottsman' is hypocritical.

As for Bush claiming to be told by God,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

2 Palestinians claim this about Bush and you believe them?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

2 Palestinians claim this about Bush and you believe them?

Is there any reason you have to not believe them other than that it's detrimental to your POV and you don't like Palestinian leaders? This is hardly the first time Bush has claimed to be acting through God. (He even called the war on terrorism a crusade.

) And he never personally disputed the quote.
Also Rumsfeld used to attach leading scripture to his briefings' cover page. Such as "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” And I said, “Here am I. Send me!” Isaiah 6:8 under a photo of soldiers praying. Or "It is God's will that by doing good you should silence the talk of foolish men." 1 Peter 2:13 under a picture of Saddam. (

)


More on Bush and conservative Christians of his time being A-OK with leading Evangelical Christians into believing he was God's chosen:

 

[First Baseman]

So Bush claimed to be the Messiah. Funny, I had never heard that before and he was president for how long? 8 years? Heck of a secret.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So Bush claimed to be the Messiah. Funny, I had never heard that before and he was president for how long? 8 years? Heck of a secret.

That's quite a strawman. You going to actually address what's being posted?
Anyway, all Messiah are considered God's chosen but not all God's chosen are considered Messiahs.

 

[Crypto2015]

Where is this battlefield of which you speak? Perhaps better question, are you referencing anything that is current?

No. I was talking about 18th-19th century colonialism.

 

[Crypto2015]

Both of which were attacks on Israeli targets. Do you consider these an attack on Argentina as a country, an attack on the Argentine way of life? It seems to me to be a beef with Israel, but I could be wrong here.

I consider Argentinean Jews to be Argentinean. They have an Argentinean ID card and swore allegiance to Argentina. Moreover, the vast majority of Argentinean Jews have absolutely nothing to do with the land of Israel. Most of them have never even been there. My cousins are Argentinean Jews. If some wacko comes and kills them in the name of Islam, yes, I consider that an attack on Argentina and its way of life.

 

[Crypto2015]

There are other options beside a) doing exactly what the jihadis want and b) doing nothing.

I'd go with c) Start doing what the jihadis don't want you to do.

This would require people to minimise coverage of terrorism in the media; limit political statements on terrorism to a minimum; accepting terrorism as just another one of life's risks; start viewing it as a law enforcemnet problem more than a military one (although occasional military involvement might be necessary); stop pandering to the Gulf States; stop invading/bombing countries and turning them into terrorist hotbeds; etc.

Along with very harsh penalties and solitary confinement for those spreading terrorist ideologies.

Terrorism is not about killing people, it is about affecting those who you don't kill. The less effect it has, the less desirable it is as a tactic.

Regardless, you best get used to it as it isn't going to stop anytime soon.

Why do you think doing exactly what the jihadis want you to do is the best response btw?

This is exactly what they did when the Sudanese Christians were being massacred by the Jihad fighters. Have you ever heard of that genocide? Well, that's because nobody spoke about it. If I am not mistaken, it is actually an ongoing genocide right now. Do you think that the fact that this genocide has zero media coverage is stopping the Jihad? The truth is that it does not stop it at all. Perhaps it has even facilitated it.

What you are proposing is simply outrageous. You are proposing that if a man is beheaded by a Muslim for drawing a cartoon of Muhammad we are supposed to conceal the fact that this man has been killed in the name of Islam. If a girl is killed by her family for having being raped we are also supposed to conceal that this has had anything to do with Islamic culture. If girls bleed to death because of female genital mutilation, we are supposed to deny these girls the possibility to tell the truth, lest someone realizes that FGM and Islam go hand by hand. It is monstrous.

 

[Crypto2015]

 

[Acim]

Colonialism destroyed the spiritual authority of Islam in the Middle East. Islam asserts that Allah will never allow the non-Muslims to prevail over the Muslims.

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

Colonialism proved that this is false. Hence, it proved that Islam is false. That's why the Middle East suddenly forgot about Islam. They lost their faith. One of the most efficient ways to kill the Muslim's faith in Islam is to utterly defeat them on the battlefield.

Based on your post #66, then all of this would (still) be disputable.

But that's not even the point I was making, as it would seem challenging to remain Christian and see need to triumph over Muslims (or really anyone) on a battlefield.

 

[Crypto2015]

Based on your post #66, then all of this would (still) be disputable.

But that's not even the point I was making, as it would seem challenging to remain Christian and see need to triumph over Muslims (or really anyone) on a battlefield.

I don't encourage an armed struggle against Islam. I am just pointing out that it is evident that nothing is as detrimental to the faith of the Islamic world as a crashing military defeat, simply because according to your religious texts Muslims are always expected to be dominant and victorious. I hope there is no armed struggle against Islam in the future. That's why it is important to win the ideological war. If the ideological war is won, actual violence will be prevented.

Also, bear in mind that the war for oil is not a Christendom vs. Islam war. People from the US and Europe go to the ME to steal oil not in the name of Christianity, but in the name of the multinational companies.

 

[Acim]

I don't encourage an armed struggle against Islam. I am just pointing out that it is evident that nothing is as detrimental to the faith of the Islamic world as a crashing military defeat, simply because according to your religious texts Muslims are always expected to be dominant and victorious. I hope there is no armed struggle against Islam in the future. That's why it is important to win the ideological war. If the ideological war is won, actual violence will be prevented.

Also, bear in mind that the war for oil is not a Christendom vs. Islam war. People from the US and Europe go to the ME to steal oil not in the name of Christianity, but in the name of the multinational companies.

As a Gnostic Christian type, I am keenly aware of the ideological war(s) going on. Would be easier to confront the Islamic ideology if Christianity wasn't stuck in orthodox misunderstandings, and hypocrisy. But alas, it is and so here's hoping the ideological battle can kill two proverbial birds with one stone

 

[Shadow Wolf]

we can stop terrorism by stopping invading islamic lands.

Just ask England, France, and Russia how well that worked out for them.

You can stop or at least diminish terrorism by acknowledging that there is a clear link between Islamic terrorism and mainstream Islam.

There is no such link. Saudi Oil is a problem, especially with American alliances between with those Saudi princes, but the majority of Muslims wouldn't hurt you. There are also some Muslim cultures with backwards and oppressive ways, but it's entirely on them to change their ways and any outside intervention will only make things worse.
Really, we need to realize that our hatred of Muslims and marginalizing them primes them for radicalization. We saw the same exact thing in the UK and the P-IRA - a small religious sect praying upon and requiting those who society hated and pushed aside. You can't hold hands when your hand is a fist, and people do eventually get tired of being shown the fist.

 

[Augustus]

Colonialism destroyed the spiritual authority of Islam in the Middle East. Islam asserts that Allah will never allow the non-Muslims to prevail over the Muslims.

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

Colonialism proved that this is false. Hence, it proved that Islam is false. That's why the Middle East suddenly forgot about Islam. They lost their faith. One of the most efficient ways to kill the Muslim's faith in Islam is to utterly defeat them on the battlefield.

Why didn't they 'forget about Islam' when they got conquered by the Mongols? Or lost Jerusalem to the crusaders?Or lost the Battle of Tours? Or lost the Battle of Lepanto? Or when the Mughals lost their empire to the Marathas? etc. etc. etc.

You have a very tenuaous grasp on history, Islamic theology and the 'Muslim psyche'. Have you actually know any Muslims?

This is exactly what they did when the Sudanese Christians were being massacred by the Jihad fighters. Have you ever heard of that genocide? Well, that's because nobody spoke about it. If I am not mistaken, it is actually an ongoing genocide right now. Do you think that the fact that this genocide has zero media coverage is stopping the Jihad? The truth is that it does not stop it at all. Perhaps it has even facilitated it.

You do understand the differences between terrorism and warfare/ethnic cleansing/etc. don't you?

What you are proposing is simply outrageous. You are proposing that if a man is beheaded by a Muslim for drawing a cartoon of Muhammad we are supposed to conceal the fact that this man has been killed in the name of Islam. If a girl is killed by her family for having being raped we are also supposed to conceal that this has had anything to do with Islamic culture. If girls bleed to death because of female genital mutilation, we are supposed to deny these girls the possibility to tell the truth, lest someone realizes that FGM and Islam go hand by hand. It is monstrous.

Terrorism: The politically motivated use of violence in order to influence an audience. I'll let you work out which of your examples actually relate to this and which ones have zero connection to it. Also minimise does not equal 'do not cover at all'.

Personally, I think it is more monsterous to give succour and millions of $$$ of assistance to the terrorists as you propose (publicity = material support). Getting scared and overreacting with ill considered and emotional responses is not the way to 'defeat' terrorism.

If you had actually read about what the Jihadis themselves say, you might notice that you are advocating exactly what they would choose you to do. If IS could choose someone to run Western policy, you could be pretty close to the top of the list.

Can you explain why you think it is prudent to do exactly what your enemy wants you to do?

 

[Crypto2015]

As a Gnostic Christian type, I am keenly aware of the ideological war(s) going on. Would be easier to confront the Islamic ideology if Christianity wasn't stuck in orthodox misunderstandings, and hypocrisy. But alas, it is and so here's hoping the ideological battle can kill two proverbial birds with one stone

So, you are basically hoping for the ideological struggle to kill both real Christians and Muslims, in order for Gnostic heretics to take power? LOL.

 

[Crypto2015]

Just ask England, France, and Russia how well that worked out for them.

There is no such link. Saudi Oil is a problem, especially with American alliances between with those Saudi princes, but the majority of Muslims wouldn't hurt you. There are also some Muslim cultures with backwards and oppressive ways, but it's entirely on them to change their ways and any outside intervention will only make things worse.
Really, we need to realize that our hatred of Muslims and marginalizing them primes them for radicalization. We saw the same exact thing in the UK and the P-IRA - a small religious sect praying upon and requiting those who society hated and pushed aside. You can't hold hands when your hand is a fist, and people do eventually get tired of being shown the fist.

I know that the majority of Muslims wouldn't hurt anyone, but that doesn't make Islam any better. By the way, I don't hate Muslims. My only problem is with Islam, not with the people that are deceived by this false religion. Regarding what you said about P-IRA, I don't think that the comparison is fair. What you have to understand is that Islam's hostility towards Western values is not a response to the maltreatment of Muslims. On the contrary, Islam's hostility started with Muhammad and his political career. It is part of Islam and it has always been. You deceive yourself if you believe that Islam's doctrines depend on what people in the non-Muslim world do.

 

[Crypto2015]

Why didn't they 'forget about Islam' when they got conquered by the Mongols? Or lost Jerusalem to the crusaders?Or lost the Battle of Tours? Or lost the Battle of Lepanto? Or when the Mughals lost their empire to the Marathas? etc. etc. etc.

You have a very tenuaous grasp on history, Islamic theology and the 'Muslim psyche'. Have you actually know any Muslims?



You do understand the differences between terrorism and warfare/ethnic cleansing/etc. don't you?



Terrorism: The politically motivated use of violence in order to influence an audience. I'll let you work out which of your examples actually relate to this and which ones have zero connection to it. Also minimise does not equal 'do not cover at all'.

Personally, I think it is more monsterous to give succour and millions of $$$ of assistance to the terrorists as you propose (publicity = material support). Getting scared and overreacting with ill considered and emotional responses is not the way to 'defeat' terrorism.

If you had actually read about what the Jihadis themselves say, you might notice that you are advocating exactly what they would choose you to do. If IS could choose someone to run Western policy, you could be pretty close to the top of the list.

Can you explain why you think it is prudent to do exactly what your enemy wants you to do?

I have had long theological conversations with Muslims in the real world. I don't think what I think about Islam because I don't know what Islam teaches. On the contrary, it is because I know very well what Islam teaches that I am telling you that there is a strong connection between terrorism and mainstream Islam. In Sudan Christians are being targeted for being Christians. It has nothing to do with any racial issue.

What our enemy wants us to do is exactly what you proposed. That's why CAIR constantly complains about Islamophobia, demands the removal of any allusion to Islam from the FBI and CIA training material, and falsely portrays Islam as a peaceful religious movement. On the other hand, ISIS expects you to take thousands of terrorists posing as refugees in order to infiltrate and compromise the entire US. If the US does what you proposed, your enemies will get what they want.

 

[Acim]

So, you are basically hoping for the ideological struggle to kill both real Christians and Muslims, in order for Gnostic heretics to take power? LOL.

Actually hoping was incorrect word. I know Gnostic Christian Reason will undo misguided orthodox Christian and Muslim deficiencies in ideology. I am hoping it can be done with one proverbial stone.

 

[Augustus]

What our enemy wants us to do is exactly what you proposed.

Read The management of savagery and then come back and say the same thing. (I made a brief summary here if you can't be bothered with the whole thing)

You are as wrong as it is possible to be.

 

[Windwalker]

I consider Argentinean Jews to be Argentinean. They have an Argentinean ID card and swore allegiance to Argentina. Moreover, the vast majority of Argentinean Jews have absolutely nothing to do with the land of Israel. Most of them have never even been there. My cousins are Argentinean Jews. If some wacko comes and kills them in the name of Islam, yes, I consider that an attack on Argentina and its way of life.

Odd they target Jews in both instances rather than general Argentinean targets. It seems pretty clear they hate Jews specifically.