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The Health Care Bill Passes!
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
It's all about looking forward to the future, not backwards to the Bush/Cheney presidency. That's why it's important that we let those torturing, illegal Constitution-violating folks go free. To bring them to justice would be "looking backwards". And that's why the next time I get a traffic fine, I'm not going to pay it on the grounds that prosecuting me would be looking backwards.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
All I know is the problems I've experienced..the hassles..the expense of medical have nothing to do with President Obama they have gone on for years and only gotten worse.
Nobody has done anythign about it as far as I can tell.At least hes' taking it seriously and trying something.
Bush to my recolection seemed to be more focussed on the evil doers and getting a handle on the ever elusive non existant "nuculars" that they possessed.
Love
Dallas
Nobody has done anythign about it as far as I can tell.At least hes' taking it seriously and trying something.
Bush to my recolection seemed to be more focussed on the evil doers and getting a handle on the ever elusive non existant "nuculars" that they possessed.
Love
Dallas
Alceste
Vagabond
This is true.
This is not.
This is true, and demonstrates handily why your second statement is not.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
:sarcastic 36th does not really deomonstrate anything more than mediocre, shirley?
ack I cant find any of the news articles that discussed this due to the reform bill.....
I am not wading through miriads of google pages...
interesting website...lol: Help Newt Gingrich Repeal ObamaCare.
McBell
Unbound
pffft!
It is nothing more than an online petition.
Online petitions are worthless in getting anything done other than letting people feel all warm and fuzzy inside by thinking that their signing some worthless online petition has actually done something useful.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Alceste
Vagabond
Argh - I totally misread your "mediocre at best". I was in a hurry and only caught the "best". lol.
Seriously? I find this sentiment to be almost as bad as the other side claiming that this is the absolutely worst thing ever to happen to the US and we will never be able to recover from the blow.
Health Care Reform is great, don't get me wrong. We need it. We need more, but we gotta take little steps. This little step is a step in the right direction, but it's hardly on par with Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Sounds about right. I don't see anything in there about the abolition of "freedom", or government hand-outs, or buying votes, or pandering to the bottom feeders...
Even monkeys understand that sometimes a bit of collective back-scratching is in everybody's best interest.
It is a shame most people have not taken even an introductory political science course. We could spare ourselves a lot of idiocy.
Alceste
Vagabond
No kidding!
Troublemane
Well-Known Member
I would really like to hear what doctors have to say about it.
Today I was listening to NPR (about as far from right wing media as you can get!), and they were doing a story on doctors in NY hospitals who are concerned about what will happen with the millions of illegal immigrants who use the emergency rooms as their healthcare provider.
Last year, the NYC emergency rooms treated 450,000 illegals...or, "undocumented" immigrants. According to the report, the bill will slash funding for public hospitals to treat uninsured cases, because the theory is that, by fiat from this bill (HOSANAH!!!) there just wont be any uninsured folks anymore, so the lost funding will be recouped that way.
...but the bill does not address illegal immigrants, who make up probably more than 50% of all uninsured people using hospitals' emergency rooms. There is no provision for them, so this is going to have to be addressed at some point. And I really doubt making all the illegals instant citizens is going to make them go out and buy insurance.:no:
What I am having difficulty finding is numbers to support the assertion the dems made that the bill was actually going to insure 34 million americans who currently do not have insurance (ok forget the fact that the bill makes no provision to actually get them insurance, it just compells everyone to have it). I mean, did they get the figures from an estimation of how many people were treated over the last decade, who did not have insurance? If so....could there be a correlation between these 34 million uninsured persons and the illegal immigrants?
I am wondering if the fact there are an estimated 12-20 million (and could even be higher) illegal immigrants, could have anything at all to do with the 34 million. If so, this bill will do absolutely nothing for the majority of the "uninsured persons", as was previously touted.
Today I was listening to NPR (about as far from right wing media as you can get!), and they were doing a story on doctors in NY hospitals who are concerned about what will happen with the millions of illegal immigrants who use the emergency rooms as their healthcare provider.
Last year, the NYC emergency rooms treated 450,000 illegals...or, "undocumented" immigrants. According to the report, the bill will slash funding for public hospitals to treat uninsured cases, because the theory is that, by fiat from this bill (HOSANAH!!!) there just wont be any uninsured folks anymore, so the lost funding will be recouped that way.
...but the bill does not address illegal immigrants, who make up probably more than 50% of all uninsured people using hospitals' emergency rooms. There is no provision for them, so this is going to have to be addressed at some point. And I really doubt making all the illegals instant citizens is going to make them go out and buy insurance.:no:
What I am having difficulty finding is numbers to support the assertion the dems made that the bill was actually going to insure 34 million americans who currently do not have insurance (ok forget the fact that the bill makes no provision to actually get them insurance, it just compells everyone to have it). I mean, did they get the figures from an estimation of how many people were treated over the last decade, who did not have insurance? If so....could there be a correlation between these 34 million uninsured persons and the illegal immigrants?
I am wondering if the fact there are an estimated 12-20 million (and could even be higher) illegal immigrants, could have anything at all to do with the 34 million. If so, this bill will do absolutely nothing for the majority of the "uninsured persons", as was previously touted.
Did you miss the part about gov. aid for those who can't afford it? Also the state insurance pools so that high risk and/or those who don't get it through work, etc can have a more competetive way to get insurance?
But back to your point about illegals, that certainly is going to continue being an issue until we address immigration reform. And if that doesn't happen, then it seems like some sort of bill specifically addressing illegal immigrant health care would have to be passed. Remember, this health care reform bill is definitely a work in progress; it's not supposed to be the whole kit and caboodle right off the bat.
By and by, why aren't illegals shipped back to their country of origin after being treated in a hospital? I know, I know, people will accuse me of heartlessness and say that the practice would deter people from using the hospitals, but if someone cares more about staying illegally in America than s/he does about staying alive, then they might need to address their priorities.
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
I wil be the first to say that, I probably don't know what I am talking about and I need to do some more research, but right now these are my possible issues.
Firstly, this bill does nothing for me one way or another because I have insurance through my employer available... which I am a little confused about. I do not qualify for subsidies because of having that.... so does that mean I can opt out? I don't know if I would want to but....
Anyway, the issue I have is that if health insurance is forced, even if the monthly payment is affordable, how do we know that the deductible is affordable? Or does that get calculated into the payout cost?
I make $24,000 a year on average right now. I pay about $90 a month for coverage. I have a 20% copay and a $450 deductible. It really is a gamble, even without the deductible. The thing is that, when I would need it, I don't have $450 bucks I can pull out my behind at once. I was concerned about the reform coverage being similar... having to pay monthly and then having a deductible that's unaffordable all at once. For instance, if I go to the doc a doc visit is about $60-$80. I have to pay my deductible before I can get the discounted rate with the copay. It is more realistic for me to just pay the $80. The rest really only benefits me in case I go to the ER, and combined that is a hell of a lot of profit that is being made off of me even if I win the gamble and cash in the benefits in case of an accident.
I did the calculations on the website Auto posted and here they are:
Actual annual plan premium: $2,637
(age factor = ) .75
Cap on premium as % of income: 7.06%
Person/family premium payment: $1,693
% of total premium paid by person/family: 64%
Person/family payment as % of income: 7.1%
Government subsidy: $944
I pay $1,080 a year now or so, add in my deductible of $450 and thats $1530. I mean, I think I am pretty comfortable, but I am lucky in my living situation. I basically have two room mates and we own our house. I think with it being that way I am pretty comfortable, and I still think I pay a pretty penny for my gamble. If my living situation was different, I think I would feel the same way as Enchanted, given that I have no children and just take care of myself. I would rather pay an ER bill in payments if it happened in place of my insurance. I would be able to afford that more comfortably, IF the doctors were honest and got to the root of the problem and treated preventatively instead of going around their elbow to get to their *** so they can charge for the time. Because of this issue I think we need insurance, and then for the gamble in case there is actually an extended/elaborate treatment needed that is actually worth a crap-ton of money like open heart surgery or something.
Which leads me to this: there is still that problem of docs being able to do whatever they want, charge the insurance companies astronomical amounts for services (which raises the price the insurance must charge right?) A doctor walked by my grandmothers room in the hospital while we were there, one she had never seen before, poked his head in and asked if she was okay, she said yes and he moved on. She got a $50.00 bill for that. Maybe I am wrong or don't know what I am talking about, but the insurance companies are not the only ones that need to be regulated. The doctors need to be regulated too. Another example: My dad went to an appt. with some sort of cancer doctor that was trying to convince him to get chemotherapy. My dad went to simply tell him no. The doctor was rude when my dad explained that he was not taking the treatment, and so my dad left. He was there for a half an hour. That was a $400.00 charge to medicare.
I mean, my veterinarian charges different amounts for different visits. She has a lower rate for "brief visit" than she does for 30 minutes or longer. She gets it. The less work you do the less you charge. Its not $80 whether you were there for 10 minutes saying that it was a false alarm or you are there for an hour diagnosing an illness.
I think the insurance companies charge crazy because the doctors crazy charge them. Crap rolls downhill they say. I've been wondering if this bill does anything about that in particular...
I really don't know how I feel about this. Like I said, if I were making the money I am I would be paying more with the new benefits than I am paying now through my employer, and our insurance went up this year and we all complained about it....
Maybe we were and are more spoiled than what we thought. I don't know.
Firstly, this bill does nothing for me one way or another because I have insurance through my employer available... which I am a little confused about. I do not qualify for subsidies because of having that.... so does that mean I can opt out? I don't know if I would want to but....
Anyway, the issue I have is that if health insurance is forced, even if the monthly payment is affordable, how do we know that the deductible is affordable? Or does that get calculated into the payout cost?
I make $24,000 a year on average right now. I pay about $90 a month for coverage. I have a 20% copay and a $450 deductible. It really is a gamble, even without the deductible. The thing is that, when I would need it, I don't have $450 bucks I can pull out my behind at once. I was concerned about the reform coverage being similar... having to pay monthly and then having a deductible that's unaffordable all at once. For instance, if I go to the doc a doc visit is about $60-$80. I have to pay my deductible before I can get the discounted rate with the copay. It is more realistic for me to just pay the $80. The rest really only benefits me in case I go to the ER, and combined that is a hell of a lot of profit that is being made off of me even if I win the gamble and cash in the benefits in case of an accident.
I did the calculations on the website Auto posted and here they are:
Actual annual plan premium: $2,637
(age factor = ) .75
Cap on premium as % of income: 7.06%
Person/family premium payment: $1,693
% of total premium paid by person/family: 64%
Person/family payment as % of income: 7.1%
Government subsidy: $944
I pay $1,080 a year now or so, add in my deductible of $450 and thats $1530. I mean, I think I am pretty comfortable, but I am lucky in my living situation. I basically have two room mates and we own our house. I think with it being that way I am pretty comfortable, and I still think I pay a pretty penny for my gamble. If my living situation was different, I think I would feel the same way as Enchanted, given that I have no children and just take care of myself. I would rather pay an ER bill in payments if it happened in place of my insurance. I would be able to afford that more comfortably, IF the doctors were honest and got to the root of the problem and treated preventatively instead of going around their elbow to get to their *** so they can charge for the time. Because of this issue I think we need insurance, and then for the gamble in case there is actually an extended/elaborate treatment needed that is actually worth a crap-ton of money like open heart surgery or something.
Which leads me to this: there is still that problem of docs being able to do whatever they want, charge the insurance companies astronomical amounts for services (which raises the price the insurance must charge right?) A doctor walked by my grandmothers room in the hospital while we were there, one she had never seen before, poked his head in and asked if she was okay, she said yes and he moved on. She got a $50.00 bill for that. Maybe I am wrong or don't know what I am talking about, but the insurance companies are not the only ones that need to be regulated. The doctors need to be regulated too. Another example: My dad went to an appt. with some sort of cancer doctor that was trying to convince him to get chemotherapy. My dad went to simply tell him no. The doctor was rude when my dad explained that he was not taking the treatment, and so my dad left. He was there for a half an hour. That was a $400.00 charge to medicare.
I mean, my veterinarian charges different amounts for different visits. She has a lower rate for "brief visit" than she does for 30 minutes or longer. She gets it. The less work you do the less you charge. Its not $80 whether you were there for 10 minutes saying that it was a false alarm or you are there for an hour diagnosing an illness.
I think the insurance companies charge crazy because the doctors crazy charge them. Crap rolls downhill they say. I've been wondering if this bill does anything about that in particular...
I really don't know how I feel about this. Like I said, if I were making the money I am I would be paying more with the new benefits than I am paying now through my employer, and our insurance went up this year and we all complained about it....
Maybe we were and are more spoiled than what we thought. I don't know.
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The thing is, all the healthy young people who could justifiably take the risk and fore go health care insurance who are single with no children will in fact be paying more money to the health care industry than they would if they just paid for services out of pocket.
A health care savings account would be more fair to them.
You see, the money you pay the insurance company is not technically raising your taxes, but forcing you to buy it is a de facto additional tax on Americans making less than 250,000 a year.
Where the government is going to be raking in the money is when they collect all these penalties for no health care insurance, late payments, non payments etc.
They are going to hire all these new IRS agents to check every American EACH MONTH to see if they can charge you more penalties.
A health care savings account would be more fair to them.
You see, the money you pay the insurance company is not technically raising your taxes, but forcing you to buy it is a de facto additional tax on Americans making less than 250,000 a year.
Where the government is going to be raking in the money is when they collect all these penalties for no health care insurance, late payments, non payments etc.
They are going to hire all these new IRS agents to check every American EACH MONTH to see if they can charge you more penalties.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
No I think it will probably be the 4% Medicare tax on capital gains, which was exempted under the Cheney administration. That exemption was definitely necessary, otherwise the bailouts and record bonuses might not have been enough for Goldman Sachs executives to survive on during this recession, or during the oil price bubble they deliberately created in summer 2008.Rev Rick said:
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Troublemane said:
"The large majority of the uninsured (80%) are native or naturalized U.S. citizens."
The remaining 20% are non-citizens, presumably some subset of them are illegal. Source: The Uninsured: A Primer - Kaiser Family Foundation
Do the math Spinks, lets say 40 million do not have health care in this country.
If we use your 80% figure, that leaves 8 million uninsured that are not citizens?
So are you saying we only have 8 million non citizens in this country or that the rest of these non citizens allready have health care?
I was thinking we had about 15 million non citizens and that is a conservative number.
Using your percentage that would mean that 7 million non citizens already have health insurance in this country.
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