The Health Care Bill Passes!

[enchanted_one1975]

I never understood the american obcession with NOT PAYING for things....

taxes= the ability to pay for stuff

Does your hand smell good? You seem to do that in every thread. You are right by saying you don't understand. You have no choice but to pay taxes. Unlike any other debt, the IRS can seize everything you own, even protected things like your home and IRA.

Let me ask all of you that think this bill is so wonderful just one question:

How does forcing me to buy an insurance policy that I do not want or need help your personal situation?

Give me one real answer. I doubt anyone can...

 

[Autodidact]

Temper, temper! No reason to get personal. I did not single you out. I don't know your situation. I know I started working at 14 as well. I did my time in the US Army and I left there 50% disabled. The VA takes care of my medical needs. They do not take care of my family. By law I will be required to buy a policy for them. Where does this money come from? My fiance works retail. While insurance is offered through her employer, we cannot afford the portion she would have to pay for coverage for her and her kids. Who pays for this? We were turned down for food stamps because the few hundred bucks the VA gives me classifies us as wealthy. We go through 2 cases of Ramen noodles in our house most weeks. We do what we have to to make ends meet. Now we have to buy insurance for ourselves and for the next guy that doesn't work. Did you guys read the part about taxes being increased by $400Billion over the next four years? Thanks again, Obama. We needed another bill and higher taxes in the middle of a huge recession.

Let me review this again. What you're saying is that you have family members without insurance right now, and you're opposed to the bill? I strongly suspect you've been misinformed. Again, may I ask how many people in the family, and what gross income? I guess that would be for your fiance only--what is her gross annual income? How many kids?

I think you will find this bill helps rather than hurts your family.

You do know that taxes have fallen under Obama, right? Did your taxes increase this year?

 

[Storm]

You singled me out when you said: "the bottom feeders will make out great, but they already had medicaid so there was no reason to implement this"

And me, too.

No need to get personal? You call people "bottom-feeders", "freeloaders" and use the term "democrat" as an insult, and you're surprised when people call you on it? Please, spare me.

Seriously.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I think it's a silly idea.

New event idea in the silly olympics: Come up with the best silly idea and get it passed through your country's government!

 

[Gunfingers]

Does your hand smell good? You seem to do that in every thread. You are right by saying you don't understand. You have no choice but to pay taxes. Unlike any other debt, the IRS can seize everything you own, even protected things like your home and IRA.

Let me ask all of you that think this bill is so wonderful just one question:

How does forcing me to buy an insurance policy that I do not want or need help your personal situation?

Give me one real answer. I doubt anyone can...

Because many people lacking health insurance will go to the hospital and the hospital will be obligated to provide care, with the city/state/federal/whatever government footing the bill. Mandating individual health insurance is supposed to prevent this kind of abuse.

 

[Autodidact]

Does your hand smell good? You seem to do that in every thread. You are right by saying you don't understand. You have no choice but to pay taxes. Unlike any other debt, the IRS can seize everything you own, even protected things like your home and IRA.

Let me ask all of you that think this bill is so wonderful just one question:

How does forcing me to buy an insurance policy that I do not want or need help your personal situation?

Give me one real answer. I doubt anyone can...

If you think your fiance doesn't need health insurance, you're mistaken. As a legal services lawyer, I see people every day who were just like your fiance before their illness or accident, coming to us to seek bankruptcy because they lacked health insurance. Heaven forbid she should have even a short hospitalization; she would be forever in debt.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Let me review this again. What you're saying is that you have family members without insurance right now, and you're opposed to the bill? I strongly suspect you've been misinformed. Again, may I ask how many people in the family, and what gross income? I guess that would be for your fiance only--what is her gross annual income? How many kids?

I think you will find this bill helps rather than hurts your family.

You do know that taxes have fallen under Obama, right? Did your taxes increase this year?

I don't really feel like discussing my family's finances here. We cannot afford it, plain and simple. If you would like, you can feel free to explain how losing my home and forcing me to give that money to a private insurance carrier benefits me though. I have been asking this in many threads for some time now but people seem to never come up with an answer.

Again, this is not socialist medicine we are talking about. This is not what other countries have done. We are forcing people to channel money that they don't have into private, for-profit companies. How does this help anybody except the insurance companies? Please explain. Anyone?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Temper, temper! No reason to get personal. I did not single you out. I don't know your situation. I know I started working at 14 as well. I did my time in the US Army and I left there 50% disabled. The VA takes care of my medical needs. They do not take care of my family. By law I will be required to buy a policy for them. Where does this money come from? My fiance works retail. While insurance is offered through her employer, we cannot afford the portion she would have to pay for coverage for her and her kids. Who pays for this? We were turned down for food stamps because the few hundred bucks the VA gives me classifies us as wealthy. We go through 2 cases of Ramen noodles in our house most weeks. We do what we have to to make ends meet. Now we have to buy insurance for ourselves and for the next guy that doesn't work. Did you guys read the part about taxes being increased by $400Billion over the next four years? Thanks again, Obama. We needed another bill and higher taxes in the middle of a huge recession.

Sounds like you and your family would qualify for the expanded Medicaid, or at the least, subsidized Health care. (You do not have to pay for the majority of the cost of your Insurance)
So if you had no Insurance before, now you can get it cheaper through subsidies, or you may now qualify for Medicaid.

What a tragedy.

 

[Draka]

Does your hand smell good? You seem to do that in every thread. You are right by saying you don't understand. You have no choice but to pay taxes. Unlike any other debt, the IRS can seize everything you own, even protected things like your home and IRA.

Let me ask all of you that think this bill is so wonderful just one question:

How does forcing me to buy an insurance policy that I do not want or need help your personal situation?

Give me one real answer. I doubt anyone can...

If you end up having some issue where you need medical assistance you can't afford, and the hospital doesn't get paid for its services, then, to make up for the money they lost in treating you they raise their prices for everyone in order to recoup. Didn't you ever learn about how shoplifting affects everyone? If you don't have some plan in place to compensate for the medial attention you need that you cannot pay for out of your own pocket then everyone pays for you by paying higher and higher rates for healthcare. This also causes more and more doctors to deny people without healthcare insurance because they want to make sure they get paid for their services. Thus cutting down the options for those who cannot afford high insurance rates in the first place.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't really feel like discussing my family's finances here. We cannot afford it, plain and simple. If you would like, you can feel free to explain how losing my home and forcing me to give that money to a private insurance carrier benefits me though. I have been asking this in many threads for some time now but people seem to never come up with an answer.

Why would you lose your home? If you can't afford health insurance, then wouldn't you qualify for a subsidy?

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Because many people lacking health insurance will go to the hospital and the hospital will be obligated to provide care, with the city/state/federal/whatever government footing the bill. Mandating individual health insurance is supposed to prevent this kind of abuse.

So we should be forced to pay $12,000.00 per year to cover the $500 per year that we incur in medical expenses over the average year? How is this beneficial? Is this the new math?

If you think your fiance doesn't need health insurance, you're mistaken. As a legal services lawyer, I see people every day who were just like your fiance before their illness or accident, coming to us to seek bankruptcy because they lacked health insurance. Heaven forbid she should have even a short hospitalization; she would be forever in debt.

Hospitals cannot seize your home or protected assets for payment of debt. The government can. Bankruptcy doesn't put families on the street. IRS debt does. This does not benefit anyone who is being forced to buy a policy that they do not want or need.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

If you end up having some issue where you need medical assistance you can't afford, and the hospital doesn't get paid for its services, then, to make up for the money they lost in treating you they raise their prices for everyone in order to recoup. Didn't you ever learn about how shoplifting affects everyone? If you don't have some plan in place to compensate for the medial attention you need that you cannot pay for out of your own pocket then everyone pays for you by paying higher and higher rates for healthcare. This also causes more and more doctors to deny people without healthcare insurance because they want to make sure they get paid for their services. Thus cutting down the options for those who cannot afford high insurance rates in the first place.

It is illegal to deny necessary treatment for a patient because of inability to pay. The hospitals charge more because they can. There is no competition. My family's combined medical bills for the year averages $500. We will now be forced to spend $12,000.00 on insurance to be sure the $500 gets paid. This helps only the insurance companies, not me or the hospitals.

Why would you lose your home? If you can't afford health insurance, then wouldn't you qualify for a subsidy?

In theory, but the guy that just barely falls on the wrong side of the line gets denied. We were already denied for state assistance (through federal funding) that exists in our state. Why? The few hundred bucks I get in disability puts us over the limit. Unless the government gives you a home, it is very difficult to get government help of any real value. You really have to have nothing for our government to give any type of subsidy for anything.

 

[Autodidact]

I don't really feel like discussing my family's finances here. We cannot afford it, plain and simple. If you would like, you can feel free to explain how losing my home and forcing me to give that money to a private insurance carrier benefits me though. I have been asking this in many threads for some time now but people seem to never come up with an answer.

Again, this is not socialist medicine we are talking about. This is not what other countries have done. We are forcing people to channel money that they don't have into private, for-profit companies. How does this help anybody except the insurance companies? Please explain. Anyone?

Then you leave us know way to corroborate your statements, which I believe are mistaken.

I think that your family is probably entitled to a subsidy, so that you will get something very valuable that you don't have now--health insurance coverage. I don't think you will pay full cost for this, if any.

But without the numbers, I can't check.
You said your fiance is working and has children.

The federal government will in essence guarantee that you do not have to pay more than 9.8 percent of your income for your share of health insurance costs.

(Christian Science Monitor.)
So she will be able to insure herself and her children for, at a max, around 10% of her income.
I'm guessing she spends some money on their health care now, including health insurance, and will end up spending less than she does now. This bill will help her.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Hospitals cannot seize your home or protected assets for payment of debt. The government can. Bankruptcy doesn't put families on the street. IRS debt does. This does not benefit anyone who is being forced to buy a policy that they do not want or need.

(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.— In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So we should be forced to pay $12,000.00 per year to cover the $500 per year that we incur in medical expenses over the average year? How is this beneficial? Is this the new math?

Where did you get $12,000 from?

Subsidies would be figured on a sliding scale, with those who make less getting a bigger boost and those nearer the top getting a smaller one.

The formula is pretty complicated. Basically, though, people who make three or four times the poverty level would get enough federal money so that they would not have to pay more than about 10 percent of their income for a decent health insurance package.

People who make less would have to pay a smaller slice of their income for coverage. For instance, individuals who make about $14,000, and four-person families with incomes of about $29,000, would not have to pay more than 3 to 4 percent of their incomes for insurance.

Source

If that $12,000 is 10% of your income, that'd mean your family income was around $120,000 a year. If that's true, then you probably can afford coverage. If you don't make that much, then your numbers are probably off.

 

[Autodidact]

It is illegal to deny necessary treatment for a patient because of inability to pay.

Once again, you're mistaken. The hospital only needs to provide emergency care and stabilization. They do not have to, and do not, treat the underlying condition.

The hospitals charge more because they can. There is no competition. My family's combined medical bills for the year averages $500. We will now be forced to spend $12,000.00 on insurance to be sure the $500 gets paid. This helps only the insurance companies, not me or the hospitals.

You seem to be misinformed.

In theory, but the guy that just barely falls on the wrong side of the line gets denied. We were already denied for state assistance (through federal funding) that exists in our state. Why? The few hundred bucks I get in disability puts us over the limit. Unless the government gives you a home, it is very difficult to get government help of any real value. You really have to have nothing for our government to give any type of subsidy for anything.

The limits on this bill are much higher. The cutoff level would be an income of four times the federal poverty level. For one person, that’s about $44,000 a year. For a family of four, the comparable figure is about $88,000. (Again, CSM) So if your family income is below $88,000 a year, you're entitled to some subsidy.

I think you're mistaken about how this bill will affect your family. Chances are it will help your family, and millions of others.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

If someone contributes nothing to society, but puts a burden on those that are struggling to make ends meet, what would you call it? Bottom feeder, hardcore democrat, freeloader, take your pick. I am not singling you out, and there are probably some people that truly need help. Unfortunately, in this country, we have many that are learned helpless. Nobody in their family has had a job for three generations. They have kids just so they can have more food stamps and welfare money. Do you think they are going to look for a job so that they can buy a policy? Maybe they can get a job and may my mortgage since my purchasing a mandatory policy now means I can no longer pay my own mortgage. Can someone please tell me how this is better for me and my family? Why do we want to add another bill onto the pocketbook of the working class American while we are heading into an awful depression?

If you would take the time to read the analysis of the bill, rather than tuning the radio to Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, and Malkin, you would know that the bill will be saving money and cutting the national debt over time.

Then again, anyone that would simply dismiss 30 to 50 million people as "bottom feeders, freeloaders, or hardcore Democrats" really isn't interested in hearing the truth at the expense of having someone else do their thinking for them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In theory, but the guy that just barely falls on the wrong side of the line gets denied. We were already denied for state assistance (through federal funding) that exists in our state. Why? The few hundred bucks I get in disability puts us over the limit. Unless the government gives you a home, it is very difficult to get government help of any real value. You really have to have nothing for our government to give any type of subsidy for anything.

Wait... so you're saying you wouldn't qualify for medicaid under the new system? That's as maybe, but if you're just over the line, you'll still get a subsidy; a family of four would need a household income over $88,000 a year before they got nothing.

Like the article I quoted just said, if you're above the threshhold for medicaid but still receiving a subsidy, then your health insurance costs should be around 3-4% of your income at the low end of the scale and 10% at the high end.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

So she will be able to insure herself and her children for, at a max, around 10% of her income.
I'm guessing she spends some money on their health care now, including health insurance, and will end up spending less than she does now. This bill will help her.

We do not have 10% of our household income burning a hole in our pocket right now. We live paycheck to paycheck. Will Obama mandate a 10% raise for her and increase my VA benefit by 10% so that we have 10% to give back to them?

I feel like I am trying to explain to a 3 year old why we can't afford a chocolate bar today. The money is not there so we cannot spend it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We do not have 10% of our household income burning a hole in our pocket right now. We live paycheck to paycheck. Will Obama mandate a 10% raise for her and increase my VA benefit by 10% so that we have 10% to give back to them?

You said that you missed the threshhold for state assistance by a few hundred dollars. I seriously doubt you'd be paying 10% of your income for health insurance.