The Holy Shelah: Circumcising the Divine Phallus.

[John D. Brey]

Show me how Brit Shalom is a threat to Holy Shelah and to Devine Phallus?

If brit milah is a sign, a symbol, a ritual, imbued with the most important symbolism that could ever be (as I believe to be the case), then nothing could be more misguided than to eliminate the most important parts of the symbolism, cutting, bleeding, sucking.

Because Brit Shalom means peace. Naming baby while keeping baby intact. Intact means keeping the foreskin. No need to cut off foreskin.

The "foreskin" represent what a Jew can't have. Something about that flesh (the so-called "foreskin") is the perfect analogue for what must be non-existent for a Jew to be conceived, and or born. Something about the lack of that flesh points toward the unique nature of Messiah's birth. He's the transcendental signifier for what a Jew is. All other Jews are ritual manifestations of Messiah. Every Jew is conceived, ritually, without the flesh bled in circumcision: they're all virgin born ritually speaking.

I think you @John D. Brey understand through cutting off. And that's confusing for me, why needing to cut off? What about peace?

Peace, peace, but there is no peace. And there will be no peace, until what the foreskin represents is removed from the world.

Having peace about the physical body and the spirituality, why is there a need to cut off?

Every human, save one, is conceived with the what the foreskin represents still intact. The foreskin represents the evil-inclination, sin-nature, and eventual death. The physical body is conceived and born with contamination and death. There will never be real peace until our body of death is replaced by a resurrection body not conceived through the evil-smelling drop of semen.




John

 

[River Sea]

When for year 2024 goats are killed for sins of Israel, Yom Kippur 2024 Friday, October 11 Saturday, October 12, [10 Tishrei 5785]: which means goats run off of mountains—it's called Yom Kippur.
Each year this takes place and this year it's October 11 and October 12.

The 10th day of Tishrei, 5785 on the Jewish calendar is Yom Kippur, or the Day of Atonement

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention @Sargonski
Less than a month away, a goat will be killed.

Today, Sept. 20.

Less than a month away This goat on October 11 will be killed for 613 laws that Jews have, while non-Jews don't have these laws.

Question: How do these Jews know that their God YHWH still thinks a goat will clear 613 laws for a year? What if YHWH claims 1 year and 6 months that these 613 laws will be clear of? Could 'YHWH' be heard about this? Be able to go to this Jewish court and explain this and be heard? If not, then who's prefect to speak for YHWH?

What king's name is YHWH from where, from one of the sons from EL Oliun? Because what is YHWH actually to demand, needing to clear 613 laws? Had Hindus ever had 613 laws too; if not, what prevented Hindus from this?

If Jews put flowers on the Jewish temple, would it be the same as a Hindu temple? How come Hindus use flowers for? What caused Jews to not use flowers?

YHWH is one of EL Oliun's sons .. an anthropomorphic God who fights the other sons of God for the position of Chief God on Earth .. Psalm 82 is a Church Hymn celebrating YHWH winning that battle .. try the NET Bible and read footnote (c) carefully ... picking out the preferred translation .. and who this "EL" fellow is.

My question is to @Sargonski quote:
If YHWH is one of EL Oliun's sons, did EL Oliun have 613 laws that followed too, or only one of the sons, named YHWH of EL Oliun who created these 613 laws? Did the other sons have laws too? Or no laws?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Less than a month away This goat on October 11 will be killed f

When you have questions about Jews and Judaism, you would be most helped by asking an actual Jew. Getting answers from someone of another religious is notoriously unreliable.

Sacrifices can only be done in the Temple. Since the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE and has not yet been rebuilt, we do not do sacrifices. We pray in lieu of sacrifices.

Question: How do these Jews know that their God YHWH still thinks a goat will clear 613 laws for a year?

How did we know this thousands of years ago?

If not, then who's prefect to speak for YHWH?

Why do you think anyone speaks for God?

What we have today is the application interpretations of the Torah by the Rabbis. No one Rabbi has that authority. Rather we look at the totality of the Talmud, the writings of the sages, and contemporary thought.

What king's name is YHWH

Huh? There is no human king with that name. We do however think of God as King of the Universe.

EL Oliun?

I do not recognize this. Perhaps your spelling is off.

If Jews put flowers on the Jewish temple, would it be the same as a Hindu temple? How come Hindus use flowers for? What caused Jews to not use flowers?

It's simply was not our custom to supply the Temple with flowers. However, many SYNAGOGUES do have flower arrangements in them.

I can't speak for Hinduism. I have no idea.

If YHWH is one of EL Oliun's sons,

God is not anyone's son. He exists eternally. He was never born or created.

 

[River Sea]

Why do you think anyone speaks for God?

I learned from @Sargonski that YHWH was a son of father EL Oliun. And that EL Oliun had many sons. So YHWH has brothers.

@Sargonski
How many sons did King EL Oliun have?

Someone took one of the sons from King EL Oliun and made this son their God called YHWH. I'm interested in how this happened.

However, I understand YHWH can't go to court, so then would (how) get a person to speak for YHWH in a court system, because the Jews do have their own court system? What would happen if Jews didn't have their own court system?

@Sargonski Am I understanding correctly about King EL Oliun? How many sons did he have? How did YHWH be more heard about compared to his brothers? Yet how come people need to speak for YHWH in their court system? How do they do that? As YHWH' had physically passed away when?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I learned from @Sargonski that YHWH was a son of father EL Oliun. And that EL Oliun had many sons. So YHWH has brothers.

Why are you asking a non-Jew about Jewish things?????

There is no El Oliun. Perhaps he meant El Elyon. El Elyon means "God most high." It is one of the many titles of YHWH. He is not a separate god. Your friend is perhaps trying to study history to figure out where the Jewish idea of YHWH came from. Just understand that none of your friend's comments are how Jews today see God.

@Sargonski
How many sons did King EL Oliun have?

If you are referring to El Elyon, aka YHWH, he has no literal sons. But we often speak of being his children in a figurative sense, because he loves us as father loves a son.

King EL Oliun

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. If you have questions about Jews and Judaism, you need to ask a Jew.

However, I understand YHWH can't go to court, so then would (how) get a person to speak for YHWH in a court system, because the Jews do have their own court system? What would happen if Jews didn't have their own court system?

Your remark makes no sense. Yes, Jews have courts. They are for human beings. Not God.

We do not speak for God. The decisions in a Jewish court are based on Jewish law. We do not call God on the phone.

To sum things up accurately:

• The formal name for God in Judaism is spelled yod hey vav hey, and is transliterated YHWH. God has many titles, including El Elyon (God most high), El Shaddai (God almighty), Elohim (God), Adonai (Lord), Hashem (the name) and many others.
• He is the only God there is. He is also not divided into parts or persons.
• We refer to ourselves as Children of God because we see that God loves us like a father loves a son.
• We often refer to God as King, because we see him as King of the universe. A common expression is "Avinu Malkeinu" which means "Our Father, Our King."
• Our God has no body or form. This means any mention of the "face of God" or "hand of God" is FIGURATIVE. It also means that God does not make babies (meaning he has no literal children).
• He is not a man or a tree or a rock, nor does he become any of those things.
• He is eternal, meaning he was never born or created, but has always existed.

 

[Sargonski]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention @Sargonski
Less than a month away, a goat will be killed.




My question is to @Sargonski quote:
If YHWH is one of EL Oliun's sons, did EL Oliun have 613 laws that followed too, or only one of the sons, named YHWH of EL Oliun who created these 613 laws? Did the other sons have laws too? Or no laws?

Very good question .... Each God makes a covenant with his people -- of some sort or another... this was not just true for the Israelites but for every other people .. (see deut 32:8) when El Elyon alots to each one of the Sons of God a people .. YHWH's portion was Israel ... but . and while YHWH was the God of the Israelites .. he was not the God of Israel ..

The Cult of YHWH is introduced with Moses.. and he makes a covenant with the People Moses was leading .. ... complete with a huge number of commands and rules that must be followed.. .. another God then comes along .. after the Israelites reject YHWH at the Golden Calf Incedent .. a new God by the Name of Jealous ..makes a new covenant .. complete with a different set of commands (compare 10 commands before the Calf incident .. with those given after the incident .. the second set presumably the ones that go into the Ark" The name of the second God is Jealous.

Now .. El is the God of Abraham .. .. The God of Abraham is the God of Jesus .. as opposed to the God of Moses .. We know this because Jesus rejects the God of Moses .. calls him "The Devil"Jesus does not follow the commands of YHWH .. does not follow that covenant. The covenant and Laws of the God of Jesus are as Jesus states in the Sermon on the mount .. Not sure what the exact number of Laws from the God of Jesus are but they are much less than 613.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Very good question .... Each God makes a covenant with his people -- of some sort or another... this was not just true for the Israelites but for every other people .. (see deut 32:8) when El Elyon alots to each one of the Sons of God a people .. YHWH's portion was Israel ... but . and while YHWH was the God of the Israelites .. he was not the God of Israel ..

The Cult of YHWH is introduced with Moses.. and he makes a covenant with the People Moses was leading .. ... complete with a huge number of commands and rules that must be followed.. .. another God then comes along .. after the Israelites reject YHWH at the Golden Calf Incedent .. a new God by the Name of Jealous ..makes a new covenant .. complete with a different set of commands (compare 10 commands before the Calf incident .. with those given after the incident .. the second set presumably the ones that go into the Ark" The name of the second God is Jealous.

Now .. El is the God of Abraham .. .. The God of Abraham is the God of Jesus .. as opposed to the God of Moses .. We know this because Jesus rejects the God of Moses .. calls him "The Devil"Jesus does not follow the commands of YHWH .. does not follow that covenant. The covenant and Laws of the God of Jesus are as Jesus states in the Sermon on the mount .. Not sure what the exact number of Laws from the God of Jesus are but they are much less than 613.

The Torah is pretty clear that El Shaddai (as Abraham called him) and YHWH (as Moses called him) is the same God.

 

[John D. Brey]

Now .. El is the God of Abraham .. .. The God of Abraham is the God of Jesus .. as opposed to the God of Moses .. We know this because Jesus rejects the God of Moses .. calls him "The Devil"Jesus does not follow the commands of YHWH .. does not follow that covenant. The covenant and Laws of the God of Jesus are as Jesus states in the Sermon on the mount .. Not sure what the exact number of Laws from the God of Jesus are but they are much less than 613.

Exodus 23:20-21.



John

 

[Sargonski]

Exodus 23:20-21.



John

Above is an extremely non informative post ... the reader having absolutly no idea what you are trying to say ?

 

[Sargonski]

The Torah is pretty clear that El Shaddai (as Abraham called him) and YHWH (as Moses called him) is the same God.

El Shaddai is not a name .. it is an epiphet ... along with El Oliun "Supreme One" the the epiphet used for the "most high God" (another epithet El Elyon as quoted previously in Deut 32:8) when Abram encounters the High Priest of his God .. and King of Jerusalem. This Priest-Kings name was Melchi-Zedek .. in Genesis 16.

"18 Then Melchizedek king of (Jeru) Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,

“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.
20 And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”
Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
-------------

The above is from standard Bible .. the "God most High" / epithet used in the Hebrew Text is El Oliun .. the transliteration of which is El Supreme ..
Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible --- "NOT" El Most High God Most high is the epithet EL Elyon. It is important to get one's epithets straight in the convo about the identity of the God.

In this case .. we are looking for the Name of the God of Melchi-Zedek ... or rather ... the "High God" of Melchi-Zedek .. as Melchi-Zedek believes in the existence of many Gods ... as does Abram. ... Looking for the name of El Oliun.

Fortunately for us - another passage where this same epithet is used is in Psalm 82 ... from which we learn the identity of this Most HIgh God is EL .
82:1 YHWH stands in[b] the assembly of El;[c] in the midst of the gods[d] he renders judgment.[e]

----------

The Assembly of EL .. is the Assembly of EL ...one of the Few places where the proper name of this God is used .. rather than his epithet.. Later in in verse 6 the "sons of God" are referred to as Sons of the Supreme one .. El Oliun..

This is just one of many places where the identity of the God of Abram is revaled to us .. hence why the overwhelming consensus position of modern theological scholarship is that the God of Abraham was EL - Encyclopedia Brittannica "Abraham"

 

[John D. Brey]

Now .. El is the God of Abraham .. .. The God of Abraham is the God of Jesus .. as opposed to the God of Moses .. We know this because Jesus rejects the God of Moses .. calls him "The Devil"Jesus does not follow the commands of YHWH .. does not follow that covenant.

Exodus 23:20-21.

Above is an extremely non informative post ... the reader having absolutly no idea what you are trying to say ?

I thought your statement was very informative and somewhat accurate. But my sensibilities also lie with @IndigoChild5559 and her beliefs too. Exodus 23:20 lends itself to the idea of a demon-god gallivanting throughout the pages of the Tanakh; a god who's sometimes written about, and sometimes even worshiped, as though he were the God of Moses and Jesus:

The words אין זולתך [there is no other than you], refer to powers, deities, already in existence to whom G'd has assigned various domains within which they appear to reign supreme . . . [but] their rule is not independent of You, i.e., אין זולתך. When it is your will, these powers exercise dominion; when it is Your will, You take this power away from them.​

​

Shney Luchot Habrit, vol. 2, p. 415.​

What Rabbi Horowitz says above relates to Exodus 23:20:

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for Hashem is in him.​

​

Exodus 23:20–21.​

A lot could be said about the phrase, "my name is in him." The very next verse says:

But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.​

The true Jew is to "obey" the voice of the angel, but "in him," that is, in the voice of the angel, they're to hear what Hashem would have them do. Obey the angel, but do what I say. Don't provoke the angel, for he's the lawgiver and the angel of death. Obey him knowing I don't let him know what my right hand is doing to procure your salvation: I tell you things I don't reveal to him. ----This hearkens back to earlier in the story when Moses hears the voice of the angel in the burning bush. Hashem is "in him" --- in the burning bush (in the midst of the fiery seraph --Exodus 23:20).

After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice: I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.​

​

Acts 7:30-32.​

Here, an angel appears to Moses (by means of the flames of a burning seraph or bush). When Moses gets closer, he hears not the angel, but the Lord.

The angel of the Lord went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore to give to your forefathers."​

​

Judges 2:1.​

In Exodus 23:20-21, God tells Moses he's sending and angel to guard Israel and bring them to the land. Judges 2:1 has this angel telling Israel he brought them up out of Egypt just as the Lord told Moses would be the case. And true to what the Lord told Moses about this angel, he goes on (the angel does), in Judges chapter 2, to curse Israel for alleged disobedience. The narratives are all pretty clear that Moses knows the difference between this angel versus the Lord while Israel in general generally do not.

"People from many nations will pass by this city and will ask one another, `Why has the Lord done such a thing to this great city?' And the answer will be: `Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord their God and have worshiped and served other gods.'"​

​

Jeremiah 22:8-9.​

​

This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the assembly in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him. And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven.​

​

Acts 7:37–42.​

John

 

[IndigoChild5559]

along with El Oliun

I'm curious why you misspell this. This is not how El Elyon is pronounced.

 

[Sargonski]

I'm curious why you misspell this. This is not how El Elyon is pronounced.

El Elyon is a different epithet from El Oliun.

El Elyon = "God Most High"
El Oliun = "God Supreme"

you were given the various epithets and spelling in the link provided .. the actual epithet used .. transliterated from Hebrew .. in the passages discussed .. Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible

Do you understand what an epithet is as opposed to a name ? .. in this case both epithets are referring to the same God .. EL Most high God of the Canaanites .. God of Abraham .. God of the Priestly order of Melchi-Zedek and thus the God of Jesus .. Jesus also a Priest of the Order of Melchi-Zedek. as was King David ..

 

[Sargonski]

I thought your statement was very informative and somewhat accurate. But my sensibilities also lie with @IndigoChild5559 and her beliefs too. Exodus 23:20 lends itself to the idea of a demon-god gallivanting throughout the pages of the Tanakh; a god who's sometimes written about, and sometimes even worshiped, as though he were the God of Moses and Jesus:

The words אין זולתך [there is no other than you], refer to powers, deities, already in existence to whom G'd has assigned various domains within which they appear to reign supreme . . . [but] their rule is not independent of You, i.e., אין זולתך. When it is your will, these powers exercise dominion; when it is Your will, You take this power away from them.​

​

Shney Luchot Habrit, vol. 2, p. 415.​

What Rabbi Horowitz says above relates to Exodus 23:20:

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for Hashem is in him.​

​

Exodus 23:20–21.​

A lot could be said about the phrase, "my name is in him." The very next verse says:

But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.​

The true Jew is to "obey" the voice of the angel, but "in him," that is, in the voice of the angel, they're to hear what Hashem would have them do. Obey the angel, but do what I say. Don't provoke the angel, for he's the lawgiver and the angel of death. Obey him knowing I don't let him know what my right hand is doing to procure your salvation: I tell you things I don't reveal to him. ----This hearkens back to earlier in the story when Moses hears the voice of the angel in the burning bush. Hashem is "in him" --- in the burning bush (in the midst of the fiery seraph --Exodus 23:20).

After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice: I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.​

​

Acts 7:30-32.​

Here, an angel appears to Moses (by means of the flames of a burning seraph or bush). When Moses gets closer, he hears not the angel, but the Lord.

The angel of the Lord went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore to give to your forefathers."​

​

Judges 2:1.​

In Exodus 23:20-21, God tells Moses he's sending and angel to guard Israel and bring them to the land. Judges 2:1 has this angel telling Israel he brought them up out of Egypt just as the Lord told Moses would be the case. And true to what the Lord told Moses about this angel, he goes on (the angel does), in Judges chapter 2, to curse Israel for alleged disobedience. The narratives are all pretty clear that Moses knows the difference between this angel versus the Lord while Israel in general generally do not.

"People from many nations will pass by this city and will ask one another, `Why has the Lord done such a thing to this great city?' And the answer will be: `Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord their God and have worshiped and served other gods.'"​

​

Jeremiah 22:8-9.​

​

This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the assembly in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him. And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven.​

​

Acts 7:37–42.​

John

"Demon God" --- that is what I stated as well ... YHWH that demon .. the God of the Pharisees - YHWH - is described by Jesus in John 8:44
"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

"Our Father - who art in heaven .. hallowed be thy name" -- Jesus is a priest of the order Melchi-Zedek .. The God of the Zadokite Priesthood is not the God of the Aaronite - Levitical Priesthood.

This is difficult for one trying to maintain a monotheistic perspective .. the problem is that the Israelites were not monotheistic .. YHWH worship was not monotheistic .. consort Asherah and daughter Anat and others worshiped in the Temple alongside Lord YHWH .. The National God .. Chief God over the Earth for a time .. as described in Psalm 82 .. defeating the rival "Sons of the supreme God El" and thus usurping the position of EL as Chief God on earth .. El however is still around as High God in the Heavens .. Chief of the Assembly of EL .. so while YHWH was worshiped as National God .. EL was also worshiped as HIgh God .. same for every other people .. Chemosh was the National God of the Moabites .. El was still High God in the Heavens .. Marduk high God of the Babylonians .. the God who ends up killing YHWH .. EL is also revered as The most high in the heavens .. Marduk Chief God over the Eearth ..

This is the story that the Israelites believed .. and one played out in Israelite History .. YHWH even loses a battle against Chemosh .. God of the Moabites .. but ends up winning th War .. this story told from both sides .. the Israelites (The Bible) .. and the Moabites .. Moabite Stone - Mesha Stele

 

[Ebionite]

"Demon God" --- that is what I stated as well ... YHWH that demon .. the God of the Pharisees - YHWH - is described by Jesus in John 8:44

If that were true then why would Jesus endorse the law of YHWH and the prophets of YHWH?

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mark 13:14

 

[Sargonski]

I thought your statement was very informative and somewhat accurate. But my sensibilities also lie with @IndigoChild5559 and her beliefs too. Exodus 23:20 lends itself to the idea of a demon-god gallivanting throughout the pages of the Tanakh; a god who's sometimes written about, and sometimes even worshiped, as though he were the God of Moses and Jesus:

The words אין זולתך [there is no other than you], refer to powers, deities, already in existence to whom G'd has assigned various domains within which they appear to reign supreme . . . [but] their rule is not independent of You, i.e., אין זולתך. When it is your will, these powers exercise dominion; when it is Your will, You take this power away from them.​

​

Shney Luchot Habrit, vol. 2, p. 415.​

What Rabbi Horowitz says above relates to Exodus 23:20:

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for Hashem is in him.​

​

Exodus 23:20–21.​

A lot could be said about the phrase, "my name is in him." The very next verse says:

But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.​

The true Jew is to "obey" the voice of the angel, but "in him," that is, in the voice of the angel, they're to hear what Hashem would have them do. Obey the angel, but do what I say. Don't provoke the angel, for he's the lawgiver and the angel of death. Obey him knowing I don't let him know what my right hand is doing to procure your salvation: I tell you things I don't reveal to him. ----This hearkens back to earlier in the story when Moses hears the voice of the angel in the burning bush. Hashem is "in him" --- in the burning bush (in the midst of the fiery seraph --Exodus 23:20).

After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice: I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.​

​

Acts 7:30-32.​

Here, an angel appears to Moses (by means of the flames of a burning seraph or bush). When Moses gets closer, he hears not the angel, but the Lord.

The angel of the Lord went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, "I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore to give to your forefathers."​

​

Judges 2:1.​

In Exodus 23:20-21, God tells Moses he's sending and angel to guard Israel and bring them to the land. Judges 2:1 has this angel telling Israel he brought them up out of Egypt just as the Lord told Moses would be the case. And true to what the Lord told Moses about this angel, he goes on (the angel does), in Judges chapter 2, to curse Israel for alleged disobedience. The narratives are all pretty clear that Moses knows the difference between this angel versus the Lord while Israel in general generally do not.

"People from many nations will pass by this city and will ask one another, `Why has the Lord done such a thing to this great city?' And the answer will be: `Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord their God and have worshiped and served other gods.'"​

​

Jeremiah 22:8-9.​

​

This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the assembly in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him. And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven.​

​

Acts 7:37–42.​

John

"Demon God" --- that is what I stated as well ... YHWH that demon .. the God of the Pharisees - YHWH - is described by Jesus in John 8:44
"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

"Our Father - who art in heaven .. hallowed be thy name" -- Jesus is a priest of the order Melchi-Zedek .. The God of the Zadokite Priesthood is not the God of the Aaronite - Levitical Priesthood.

This is difficult for one trying to maintain a monotheistic perspective .. the problem is that the Israelites were not monotheistic .. YHWH worship was not monotheistic .. consort Asherah and daughter Anat and others worshiped in the Temple alongside Lord YHWH .. The National God .. Chief God over the Earth for a time .. as described in Psalm 82 .. defeating the rival "Sons of the supreme God El" and thus usurping the position of EL as Chief God on earth .. El however is still around as High God in the Heavens .. Chief of the Assembly of EL .. so while YHWH was worshiped as National God .. EL was also worshiped as HIgh God .. same for every other people .. Chemosh was the National God of the Moabites .. El was still High God in the Heavens .. Marduk high God of the Babylonians .. the God who ends up killing YHWH .. EL is also revered as The most high in the heavens .. Marduk Chief God over the Eearth ..

This is the story that the Israelites believed .. and one played out in Israelite History .. YHWH even loses a battle against Chemosh .. God of the Moabites .. but ends up winning th War .. this story told from both sides .. the Israelites (The Bible) .. and the Moabites .. Moabite Stone - Mesha Stele

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If that were true then why would Jesus endorse the law of YHWH and the prophets of YHWH?

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mark 13:14

The abomination of desolation has nothing to do with endorsing any law ? ... nor does saying nothing will pass from the law untill it is fulfilled (a sentence which you should know is bonky to begin with and so let us not be attributing anything to anything on that basis).

Jesus did not come to change the old covenant with YHWH with its commands - laws - rules. What Jesus did was introduced a new covenant .. with different rules - laws - Commands .. and thus a different God. You are not understanding that a different covenant means a different God. You have a Covenant with Lord YHWH and a covenant Lord Jealous - each covenant has a set of "10 comands" but they are completely different.

Jesus does not follow the covenant of YHWH .. nor is Jesus a priest of the Aaronic Order .. the Priesthood of YHWH. Jesus is a priest of the Order Melchi-Zedek .. which is the Priesthood of El. Different Priesthood .. different Laws .. different Covenant .. different God.

 

[Ebionite]

The abomination of desolation has nothing to do with endorsing any law ? ... nor does saying nothing will pass from the law untill it is fulfilled

Saying that nothing will pass for from the law is an endorsement of the law.

What Jesus did was introduced a new covenant .. with different rules - laws - Commands .. and thus a different God.

No, the blood covenant was described as part of the Mosaic law. The difference was that the Mosaic covenant had animal blood but Jesus' covenant had wine as a symbol of blood. In both cases it was about remission of or atonement for sin.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:28

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled [it] on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which YHWH hath made with you concerning all these words.
Exodus 24:8

And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it [is] most holy unto YHWH.
Exodus 30:10

 

[John D. Brey]

Jesus does not follow the covenant of YHWH .. nor is Jesus a priest of the Aaronic Order .. the Priesthood of YHWH. Jesus is a priest of the Order Melchi-Zedek .. which is the Priesthood of El. Different Priesthood .. different Laws .. different Covenant .. different God.

Jesus is YHVH. The order of Melchizedek is an order of king/priests. Jesus' family are all king/priests. Jesus is the high priest and the offering simultaneously, which, the offering, is the means through which his family come into being.

A similar analogy is brit milah which symbolizes a pregnancy affected by the sacrifice of the normal fathering-mechanism. When Jesus is sacrificed as "yesod" (the divine priapus) his bride conceives her "new man." When Abraham's fathering-flesh is sacrificed, his wife conceives Isaac; the latter being the retrospective analogy (חק) for the former.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

"Demon God" --- that is what I stated as well ... YHWH that demon .. the God of the Pharisees - YHWH - is described by Jesus in John 8:44
"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

The "demon-god" is made an emblem by means of Nehushtan. Which is why our interchange began with Exodus 23:20-21:

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.​

Hashem (the Name) is in the fiery angel such that if a person understands that Hashem (the Name) is "Branch" (צמח tsemach), then when they picture a branch (Moses and Aaron's rod) ornamented with a fiery seraph of bronze attached as its fore, or outer, skene, or skin, Nehushtan, then they might appreciate John 3:14-15:

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

Does it really require a Rashi or Nachmanides to see that John 3:14-15 and Exodus 23:20-21, are a match made in heaven?

Someone came. Surely it was God, God . . . or was it the devil? Who can tell them apart? They exchange faces; God sometimes becomes all darkness, the devil all light, and the mind of man is left in the muddle.​

​

Kazantzakis, The Last Temptation of Christ, 15.​

​

Samael is at one and the same time an angel, something holy, and also the source of death, evil. Keeping this in mind, we can understand the statements of Rabbi Shmuel bar Nachmeini in Chulin 91a who says that Samael appeared to Jacob as a pagan, whereas Rav Shmuel bar Acha thought that Samael appeared to Jacob in the guise of a Torah scholar. These two views need not conflict with one another . . . Samael appeared like a pagan; considering the holiness that radiates from the angelic aspect of Samael, he appeared like a Torah scholar.​

​

Shney Luchot HaBerit, Torah Shebikhtav, Vayishlach, Torah Ohr, 13-14.​

John

 

[Sargonski]

The "demon-god" is made an emblem by means of Nehushtan. Which is why our interchange began with Exodus 23:20-21:

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.​

Hashem (the Name) is in the fiery angel such that if a person understands that Hashem (the Name) is "Branch" (צמח tsemach), then when they picture a branch (Moses and Aaron's rod) ornamented with a fiery seraph of bronze attached as its fore, or outer, skene, or skin, Nehushtan, then they might appreciate John 3:14-15:

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

Does it really require a Rashi or Nachmanides to see that John 3:14-15 and Exodus 23:20-21, are a match made in heaven?

Someone came. Surely it was God, God . . . or was it the devil? Who can tell them apart? They exchange faces; God sometimes becomes all darkness, the devil all light, and the mind of man is left in the muddle.​

​

Kazantzakis, The Last Temptation of Christ, 15.​

​

Samael is at one and the same time an angel, something holy, and also the source of death, evil. Keeping this in mind, we can understand the statements of Rabbi Shmuel bar Nachmeini in Chulin 91a who says that Samael appeared to Jacob as a pagan, whereas Rav Shmuel bar Acha thought that Samael appeared to Jacob in the guise of a Torah scholar. These two views need not conflict with one another . . . Samael appeared like a pagan; considering the holiness that radiates from the angelic aspect of Samael, he appeared like a Torah scholar.​

​

Shney Luchot HaBerit, Torah Shebikhtav, Vayishlach, Torah Ohr, 13-14.​

John

John 3:14 has Zero to do with Exodus 23:20-21 .. Nothing that I can see. .. Zero to do with John 3:16.