The Homing Pigeon and Evolution

[oldbadger]

How science explains according to natural selection the amazing ability of the homing pigeon to return home from extremely long distances ?

Easy....

Scientist think that the homing pigeon may trace the exact location by using a magnetic compass because there is no other reasonable explanation and even if it is in relation to the earth's magnetic field still no clue on how it works.

Yer Scientists dont knows nuffin'.

Right...... 'ere's yer answer.
Yer dumb pigeons dont get 'ome. They friggin' dies.
Yer bright pigeons learn their tables and verses to get ome.
Yer dont believe me, do yer....? :no:

Clever pigeons learn ow ter use variation and deviation. (by deviation I dont mean they pay money to watch duicks wiv rabbits or anyfin nasty, it's yer magnetic deviation, see?'

Right..... write this down and learn it, like them clever pigeons.

TV makes dull children, plus it's a waste of time
Means:- True - (Magnetic) Variation - (Compass) Deviation you must add Westerly error.

Cadbury Dairy Milk Very Tasty, minus the wrapper. (Mods, this ain't a friggin advert, it's a lesson...... ok?..... onwards>>>>)
Means:- Compass - (compass) Deviation - (magnetic) Variation you must subtract Westerly error.

....... and then, you, like them pigeons, with a map and yer natural brains, can get home.
CAUTION: All you lot underneath the werld, (Ozzies and other strange folks) do not do this, or you will get lost so long that Tom Hanks in Castaway will seem like a weekend at the beach.

There yer go..... my darlins'

 

[Monk Of Reason]

And why do you think it isn't so ?

The default position is not belief and I have no logical reason to bring evidence against your claim if you don't bring evidence for it.

"Just because" isn't a good answer. I bring multitudes of evidence if you ask for it in evolution. I can't logically ask "why don't you believe in evolution" without having first made the argument.

And did you observe how the homing pigeon evolved to map and trace its location.

I have observed evolution. Not that specific one though no. But we can observe the evidence in its DNA, in other closely related bird species and the fossil record. Or for evolution in general there are other observable examples.

Countless ones for "micro-evolution". Most commonly seen is the evolution of the flu virus every year. For macro we have observed yeast and fruit flies verge on speciation within a few short decades.

And do you know why and how it happened that the sun rise everyday and how and why the earth rotates around its axis.

Yeah. Because the velocity of the earth in space is great enough and close enough to the sun that we are trapped in orbit around the sun. Pretty simple stuff you learn in Elementary science.

 

[FearGod]

The default position is not belief and I have no logical reason to bring evidence against your claim if you don't bring evidence for it.

"Just because" isn't a good answer. I bring multitudes of evidence if you ask for it in evolution. I can't logically ask "why don't you believe in evolution" without having first made the argument.

Did you observe how Apes evolved to humans and how can you prove that it happened without God's plan.

I have observed evolution. Not that specific one though no. But we can observe the evidence in its DNA, in other closely related bird species and the fossil record. Or for evolution in general there are other observable examples.

And how can you know if it is planned (directed evolution) or just happening arbitrary (natural evolution)

Countless ones for "micro-evolution". Most commonly seen is the evolution of the flu virus every year. For macro we have observed yeast and fruit flies verge on speciation within a few short decades.

That proves nothing.it can be planned by the creator to naturally happening.

Yeah. Because the velocity of the earth in space is great enough and close enough to the sun that we are trapped in orbit around the sun. Pretty simple stuff you learn in Elementary science.

Good,and hence the next question is what is gravity,where the gravitational forces came from that kept planets in their positions and orbits.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Did you observe how Apes evolved to humans and how can you prove that it happened without God's plan.

We can see the evidence (much of which I have already given to you in the past so I see no reason to give it again here). We see and understand how the natural forces work to drive such things. There is, however, a direct absence of evidence that points to an intelligent being somehow directing it. Much in the same way I am pretty sure that when the ICE runs in my car it is actually the gas exploding due to the natural causes and not god simply blowing it up as I go along.

And how can you know if it is planned (directed evolution) or just happening arbitrary (natural evolution)

The natural laws already perfectly explain how evolution works and the more we learn the more we find that this is true. However there has not been any evidence that directed evolution has occurred.

That proves nothing.it can be planned by the creator to naturally happening.

True. But we KNOW that the natural forces DO cause evolution. So there is no reason to assume a god is directing it. Therefore it is not my duty to provide any evidence against god's involvement but rather your duty to provide evidences that it could not have happened without god.

Good,and hence the next question is what is gravity,where the gravitational forces came from that kept planets in their positions and orbits.

Einstein has postulated (and it has since been verified) that spacetime can be warped by matter. This "warping" of spacetime is what causes the sensation of gravity.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Well lookie there! This thread progressed just like everyone thought it would. Guess that shows how easy it is to predict a broken clock will get the time wrong.

 

[McBell]

Well lookie there! This thread progressed just like everyone thought it would. Guess that shows how easy it is to predict a broken clock will get the time wrong.

Yeah, but unlike FearGod, a broken clock is still right twice a day....

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Yeah, but unlike FearGod, a broken clock is still right twice a day....

Well, he knows what a homing pigeon is at least...

 

[McBell]

Well, he knows what a homing pigeon is at least...

Does he?
Or is he merely relying on what he has read and heard about them?
Has he actually seen homing pigeons homing?

 

[FearGod]

We can see the evidence (much of which I have already given to you in the past so I see no reason to give it again here). We see and understand how the natural forces work to drive such things. There is, however, a direct absence of evidence that points to an intelligent being somehow directing it. Much in the same way I am pretty sure that when the ICE runs in my car it is actually the gas exploding due to the natural causes and not god simply blowing it up as I go along.

So what had happened exactly which gradually evolved Apes to Humans,do you know what had happened exactly or just guessing

The natural laws already perfectly explain how evolution works and the more we learn the more we find that this is true. However there has not been any evidence that directed evolution has occurred.

So it is arbitrary happening and not directed by a conscious entity,so do you believe that such things can work by chance,so we have the ability to see,listen and talk by a chance.

Which do you think is more complex,the human body or the TV.
If all pieces needed for a TV set is available,do you think a monkey can assemble the TV by connecting each piece by random way.

Nature is unconscious,so we have no other choices other than thinking of randomness and chances,then do you think that is science,that is rubbish and not science ,dude

True. But we KNOW that the natural forces DO cause evolution. So there is no reason to assume a god is directing it. Therefore it is not my duty to provide any evidence against god's involvement but rather your duty to provide evidences that it could not have happened without god.

What i have to provide,an evidence that the universe and the creations were done by a designer,i think your mind should be your evidence.

Einstein has postulated (and it has since been verified) that spacetime can be warped by matter. This "warping" of spacetime is what causes the sensation of gravity.

So you know how objects physically interact with each other over vast distances and also you think it is naturally happening and doesn't need any designer.

Your replies is more than enough for me as not to believe you.

 

[FearGod]

Does he?
Or is he merely relying on what he has read and heard about them?
Has he actually seen homing pigeons homing?

No,i know about the homing pigeons due to natural selection,and not by reading,those information have been passed to me by my grandpa,but my children are adapted to the new environment of the new technology and they don't know what is homing pigeons.

 

[McBell]

No,i know about the homing pigeons due to natural selection,and not by reading,those information have been passed to me by my grandpa,but my children are adapted to the new environment of the new technology and they don't know what is homing pigeons.

Ah, so you have nothing but hearsay that you take on blind faith that homing pigeons home?

Does this not seem the least bit hypocritical to you?

 

[savagewind]

We can see the evidence .... We see and understand how the natural forces work to drive such things. ....

The natural laws already perfectly explain how evolution works and the more we learn the more we find that this is true. However there has not been any evidence that directed evolution has occurred.

True. But we KNOW that the natural forces DO cause evolution.

.

I believe there is much more to Earth than evolution. (please do not slap me as I see the evidence for it and trust it OK?) I see evidence for God though too. I recognize the force and the laws in place directing evolution. Do the two have intelligence? I do not think so. That would explain imperfections in it. I believe it was intelligence that gave birth to the force and the laws.

Why not tell us dumb folks how the forces and the laws evolved?

 

[savagewind]

Oh gee! I googled it. There is a mess of stuff but not what I am looking for.

Here is something. I guess it is not off topic as it was not me who first mentioned google or force or law.

Sri Aurobindo: The Involving and Evolving Godhead

 

[savagewind]

We know for sure that offspring are more or less copies of their originator/s. The theory of evolution is a perfect witness of that fact.

Everything we know originated out of force and the law of nature. Correct?

Is it fair to apply the rule to it?

Everything we know is subject to change. Everything came out of force and law. So force and law changes too. They must have evolved as all their offspring is evolving or that other word for non-life change which I don't know (you may hit me - but I won't like it fyi)

 

[savagewind]

Perhaps the question is difficult to understand.

All life and non-life is changing. But it all is subject to The Law of Nature or nature's laws. I believe in nature's laws.

WHY DON'T THE LAWS CHANGE LIKE ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN DO?

OK. They do. Please share how they do change and how they have changed from thier beginning. Thank you.

I am not asking for many as evolution has provided. Just one or two please.

While you are at it, please offer the name for it as it is too hard to google. Thank you.

 

[Iti oj]

What would change b them and how.

 

[savagewind]

What would change b them and how.

I suppose that is the simplest way to put it.

The other question is: What is the name for the changing phenomenon in non-life matter, like stars and other things like stars?

Stars evolve but the word is not right because the word evolve is for living things. If you suggest going to college hoping to find the answer, great idea, please send $. Thank you.

 

[Iti oj]

I suppose that is the simplest way to put it.

The other question is: What is the name for the changing phenomenon in non-life matter, like stars and other things like stars?

Stars evolve but the word is not right because the word evolve is for living things. If you suggest going to college hoping to find the answer, great idea, please send $. Thank you.

Life has hereditary traits and generations. Stars have chemical reactions. What do natural laws have?

 

[savagewind]

Life has hereditary traits and generations. Stars game chemical reactions. What do natural laws have?

I do not know what "stars game" means.

I see natural laws as static but I do not know much. Natural laws being the progenitor of everything should change also. By saying they DO change was just me boosting the conversation. I think according to the belief that there is no intelligence behind, in, over or through the creation then the real "father" of everything must change too because we know for sure that every offspring is a reflection of it's uh father or mother.

The universe is changing because it came from change. So? Please give us a little insight on how that change works. Describe it please if you are able.

 

[Iti oj]

I do not know what "stars game" means.

I see natural laws as static but I do not know much. Natural laws being the progenitor of everything should change also. By saying they DO change was just me boosting the conversation. I think according to the belief that there is no intelligence behind, in, over or through the creation then the real "father" of everything must change too because we know for sure that every offspring is a reflection of it's uh father or mother.

The universe is changing because it came from change. So? Please give us a little insight on how that change works. Describe it please if you are able.

Game was have I edited it . you missed my b point everything that changes has a mechanism to cause it. What mechanism would change v laws