The Human mind; What a dangerous place to live.

[Quagmire]

Amazing some of the insights you can get as to how the human mind works when you're sitting on the sidelines watching two people who are upset with each other trying to comminicate;

Two friends of mine are in the middle of an ongoing dispute (they tryed to move in together awhile back. Didn't work out). I've been there for a cpl of their blowouts and it's like watching two people who speak two entirely different languages trying to talk to each other.

Anybody else experience this/know what I'm talking about? Or are my friends just nuts?

One of the aspects of this that stands out most for me is the way each responds to things the other didn't actually say. Up til now I was convinced it was some sort of manipulation stratgim but this morning...


[*Caution; long, boring personal anecdote follows. Might want to skip down to the end*]

One of the people involved, Lisa, walks into my workshop to give me the latest report (gossip) about the other person involved. I was in the middle of trying to rescue my computer, which was going down for the third time in an ocean of viruses, so I told her, "Hold on a minute Lisa, I'm in the middle of something and I really have to deal with this".

I didn't hear her leave but she stopped by my window just long enough for me to see the look of dejection and shock on her face. A cpl hours later she calls me to read me the riot act for "telling her to shut up".

Bleh. So, I went down to the coffee shop where we all hang out a little later and and tried to talk to her (sitting all by herself at a table on the patio, still looking dejected).

Anyway, long story short, over the course of our conversation she kept insisting that I had actually told her to shut up, in those words, and again I just figured, "this is some kind of manipulation technique to put me on the defensive as well as a subtle form of extortion or punishment, as if she were saying 'this is what I'm going to tell everybody else you said'".

But I realized at a point, "She actually believes what she's saying here. She really thinks I told her to 'shut up'". Amazing.[*Ok, it's over now*]

So my theory is; Sometimes when people have an exagerrated emotional response to a given situation, in order to justify what they're feeling they have to go back and rewrite some of the details and diolouge in such a way as to make their emotions feel appropriate to the situation. At that point their mind is spinning so fast and out of control that they don't have time to stop and consider whether any of their thoughts are making sense (the editing is almost involuntary).

Make any sense? Or am I just an easier mark than I thought I was?

 

[Sunstone]

I can't believe you just said you hated cute children and even cuter pets! Shame on you!

 

[Quagmire]

I can't believe you just said you hated cute children and even cuter pets! Shame on you!

Why thank you Phil, yes, I think it was quite well written as well.

 

[ChristineES]

She either believes that you told her to shut up or she is manipulating you. I think that part you have already figured out. Maybe she heard the words "shut up" in an insinuation to what you actually said and was so spun up that she did not even realized that she did it.
(I am sorry, I keep cracking up at Sunstone's reply!)

 

[Sunstone]

I think a lot depends on whether you take people's words in good faith or not. When I've seen situations like the one you describe in the OP, it has often seemed to me that the person who misunderstands has failed to take someone's words in good faith, and has instead taken them in bad faith. I don't believe that's all that's going on there, but that it might be some of what's going on there.

I would certainly agree it's extremely possible the mind edits what the ear hears, and we end up convinced we heard something we didn't.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Amazing some of the insights you can get as to how the human mind works when you're sitting on the sidelines watching two people who are upset with each other trying to comminicate;

Two friends of mine are in the middle of an ongoing dispute (they tryed to move in together awhile back. Didn't work out). I've been there for a cpl of their blowouts and it's like watching two people who speak two entirely different languages trying to talk to each other.

Anybody else experience this/know what I'm talking about? Or are my friends just nuts?

One of the aspects of this that stands out most for me is the way each responds to things the other didn't actually say. Up til now I was convinced it was some sort of manipulation stratgim but this morning...


[*Caution; long, boring personal anecdote follows. Might want to skip down to the end*]

One of the people involved, Lisa, walks into my workshop to give me the latest report (gossip) about the other person involved. I was in the middle of trying to rescue my computer, which was going down for the third time in an ocean of viruses, so I told her, "Hold on a minute Lisa, I'm in the middle of something and I really have to deal with this".

I didn't hear her leave but she stopped by my window just long enough for me to see the look of dejection and shock on her face. A cpl hours later she calls me to read me the riot act for "telling her to shut up".

Bleh. So, I went down to the coffee shop where we all hang out a little later and and tried to talk to her (sitting all by herself at a table on the patio, still looking dejected).

Anyway, long story short, over the course of our conversation she kept insisting that I had actually told her to shut up, in those words, and again I just figured, "this is some kind of manipulation technique to put me on the defensive as well as a subtle form of extortion or punishment, as if she were saying 'this is what I'm going to tell everybody else you said'".

But I realized at a point, "She actually believes what she's saying here. She really thinks I told her to 'shut up'". Amazing.[*Ok, it's over now*]

So my theory is; Sometimes when people have an exagerrated emotional response to a given situation, in order to justify what they're feeling they have to go back and rewrite some of the details and diolouge in such a way as to make their emotions feel appropriate to the situation. At that point their mind is spinning so fast and out of control that they don't have time to stop and consider whether any of their thoughts are making sense (the editing is almost involuntary).

Make any sense? Or am I just an easier mark than I thought I was?

I think you are spot on. I have actually caught myself doing the same thing as Lisa and had to second guess whether the events I thought transpired actually happened. In my case, my emotions were serving my ego and I was unintentionally deceiving myself.

 

[Quagmire]

She either believes that you told her to shut up or she is manipulating you. I think that part you have already figured out. Maybe she heard the words "shut up" in an insinuation to what you actually said and was so spun up that she did not even realized that she did it.
(I am sorry, I keep cracking up at Sunstone's reply!)

I'm still trying to figure out how he knew.

 

[Quagmire]

I think a lot depends on whether you take people's words in good faith or not. When I've seen situations like the one you describe in the OP, it has often seemed to me that the person who misunderstands has failed to take someone's words in good faith, and has instead taken them in bad faith. I don't believe that's all that's going on there, but that it might be some of what's going on there.

I would certainly agree it's extremely possible the mind edits what the ear hears, and we end up convinced we heard something we didn't.

It really is amazing the way our minds manipulate our reality. Even more amazing is how unaware of it we can be.

 

[Quagmire]

I think you are spot on. I have actually caught myself doing the same thing as Lisa and had to second guess whether the events I thought transpired actually happened. In my case, my emotions were serving my ego and I was unintentionally deceiving myself.

I think it's a really hard thing for people to admit to themselves. Sort of shakes your faith in your own persceptions.

Sometimes I'll be in the middle of watching a movie I haven't seen for a few years and a scene will come up that's unfamiliar because, somewhere along the way, I'd completely rewritten it in my mind.

It can be kind of disturbing.

 

[Sunstone]

It really is amazing the way our minds manipulate our reality. Even more amazing is how unaware of it we can be.

And yet, it's so routine for our minds to manipulate our reality. Example: the way the mind fills in the blind spot at the center of human vision so we don't see it. That goes on whenever our eyes are open. Yet, we are very seldom aware of it.

 

[Quagmire]

And yet, it's so routine for our minds to manipulate our reality. Example: the way the mind fills in the blind spot at the center of human vision so we don't see it. That goes on whenever our eyes are open. Yet, we are very seldom aware of it.

We really are blinded by our own thoughts to a large extent. that's one thing I love about the internet; you can always go back and actually see what's been said.

 

[Sunstone]

We really are blinded by our own thoughts to a large extent. that's one thing I love about the internet; you can always go back and actually see what's been said.

I deeply agree. To a very large extent, we see what we expect to see, we hear what we expect to hear. That's one reason why other people can be so crucially important as reality checks. Yet, so often, we are convinced beyond all reason that what we think we saw and think we heard is factual -- and no one can get through to us that we might be wrong.

EDIT: I still can't believe you hate children.

 

[Quagmire]

I deeply agree. To a very large extent, we see what we expect to see, we hear what we expect to hear. That's one reason why other people can be so crucially important as reality checks. Yet, so often, we are convinced beyond all reason that what we think we saw and think we heard is factual -- and no one can get through to us that we might be wrong.

EDIT: I still can't believe you hate children.

Something I pretty consistently get out of these forums is a reality check on what I thought I knew. Sometimes I'll post something in a debate that I was dead certain about and someone comes along and asks me where I got the information.

Then I'll think, "Hmmm..where did I get that info". Then I'll realize it's an opinion I had left over from a time before I had any real idea how to sift through whatever information was available, or something I haven't bothered to keep current on.

I think once pride steps in though, it's too easy to get into an attitude of, "Well, I'll prove I'm right first than maybe I'll go back and see if I actually am" .

Edit: I love children. Especially deep fried with dijon mustard.

 

[Bathsheba]

Two friends of mine are in the middle of an ongoing dispute (they tryed to move in together awhile back. Didn't work out). I've been there for a cpl of their blowouts and it's like watching two people who speak two entirely different languages trying to talk to each other.

Anybody else experience this/know what I'm talking about? Or are my friends just nuts?

Yeah, that sorta sounds familiar. Several years ago my significant other and I would have really bad arguments. The fight would start based on a real disagreement or offense. Ten minutes into the fight (probably sooner) we would be fighting about how we were fighting; this could go on for a very long time. Territories drawn, hunkered down, no quarter. I'd always rather be right versus happy. We’d get to the point were we couldn't recall the original complaint. We saw a counselor and learnt how to fight right. Every now and then we fall back into that old pattern, and then one of us gets us out quick by identifying the behavior. Fighting about how we are fighting, ugggg, I hate that.

 

[Quagmire]

Yeah, that sorta sounds familiar. Several years ago my significant other and I would have really bad arguments. The fight would start based on a real disagreement or offense. Ten minutes into the fight (probably sooner) we would be fighting about how we were fighting; this could go on for a very long time. Territories drawn, hunkered down, no quarter. I'd always rather be right versus happy. We’d get to the point were we couldn't recall the original complaint. We saw a counselor and learnt how to fight right. Every now and then we fall back into that old pattern, and then one of us gets us out quick by identifying the behavior. Fighting about how we are fighting, ugggg, I hate that.

Blah. Most of the women (as well as most couples) in my life are there to remind me why I'm not in a relationship.

The worst part is seeing those parts of myself come out that I usually manage to keep under the rug.

 

[Bathsheba]

Blah. Most of the women (as well as most couples) in my life are there to remind me why I'm not in a relationship.

The worst part is seeing those parts of myself come out that I usually manage to keep under the rug.

I have diametrically opposing needs. One part of me wants to isolate constantly, the other part me wants to screw like rabbits. So far, being a busy little bunny wins the day. (I jest, I like to do the dishes for others as well).

 

[Quagmire]

I have diametrically opposing needs. One part of me wants to isolate constantly, the other part me wants to screw like rabbits. So far, being a busy little bunny wins the day. (I jest, I like to do the dishes for others as well).

Do you have a sister?

 

[love]

Can you imagine all the snow flakes that have fallen in both hemispheres over the centuries? Can you believe no two are exactly alike? When we perceive a "look" from an individual how do we know that is the standard look for a particular point of view? I know all to well that people can be deliberately deceptive. The human mind has choices, how every well intentioned or ill conceived. Most peoples mouth will give them away long before a look.

Edit: Oh what a web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

 

[Buttercup]

Do you have a sister?

Hey wait a minute. I thought you wanted that robot we talked about for Christmas? You aren't already planning on two timing my present are you?


I think Lisa's reaction is very simple to figure out. Lisa likes and respects you. Lisa had a problem she wanted to talk to you about and usually you are an attentive and good listener. The response you gave Lisa is not what she's used getting from you therefore she jumped to conclusions thinking you didn't want to listen to her...sometimes women are over sensitive.

*ducks from truckloads of flying, frozen bananas thrown by hordes of PMsing women*

 

[Quagmire]

Can you imagine all the snow flakes that have fallen in both hemispheres over the centuries? Can you believe no two are exactly alike? When we perceive a "look" from an individual how do we know that is the standard look for a particular point of view? I know all to well that people can be deliberately deceptive. The human mind has choices, how every well intentioned or ill conceived. Most peoples mouth will give them away long before a look.

Edit: Oh what a web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

I see it as more of a trampoline; my own deceptions usually wind up coming back and splattering in my face (they usually resemble eggs at that point).